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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 11:41
 
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y would u need new lifters, they just need oil pressure, just pull the plugs and coisl off and crank it over for a while, then chuck it back together and away u go
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 12:37
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have done that heaps while testing and the noise comes back only when their is compression in the cylinder.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 12:48
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You better go back to the drawing board. The JZ engines don't have "lifters".
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 13:01
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ok ok, so the people that were helping me check it out have stinky old ford v8's (J/K Blake  ) and they called them lifters. I didn't think that was what they were called as they certainly weren't lifting anything 
So they are called buckets? the little things underneath the camshaft that pushes on the valve I presume? (can't see down that far)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 13:05
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Yep, they are called buckets and there are no hydraulic lifters in or under there whatsoever.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 13:07
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thanks for clearing that up
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 13:07
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they sit on top of the springs which sit on top of the valves, but yes the cams run the buckets on their grinds (someone tell me the name of those please!)
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 15:19
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Bucket = Pail (handy for milk/water collection), Lifter = cam follower (either solid or hydraulic) in this case solid.
BUT the bucket is a lifter - Toyota call them "valve lifters"
Blake - they're called shims
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 16:22
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Sure, but we all know he meant hydraulic ones - and there are none there.
So rethink the problem.
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Thu, 03 June 2004 16:34
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Problem - hard to give accurate feed back without hearing it - it may even be and exhaust leak! That gives a loud ticking sound. Incorrect clearances will make the followers loud too because they don't engage the ramps on the cams properly.
I say put the hose away and use a screwdriverstethoscope.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 00:36
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Like Yellorolla said, throw away the hose. Listen with a screwdriver. Identify the cylinder and you MUST exclude a big end. Loud and banging is how I'd describe a big end noise, not a wide valve clearance (more of a tapping). The only way I could imagine that making a horrible noise is if a shim were dislodged, and that would be pretty obvious when you took off the rocker cover (another misnomer - no rockers under there ).
Once you have identified the cylinder, pull out the spark plug, turn the crank by hand till that cylinder is at TDC and then turn it over just a bit more, maybe 5-10 degrees (use a piece of dowel thru the spark plug hole as a guide by watching it go up and then slightly down). Then push on the dowel - if the dowel/piston drops 1 or 2mm and usually with a clunk, then the bearing is spun. It's crude, but it picks up a well spun bearing. Check the pistons beside as well. The only other way is to drop the sump and inspect the bearing caps.
[Updated on: Fri, 04 June 2004 00:37]
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 13:46
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If you damage a big end, it quite often happens that the piston then hits the cylinder head giving a very loud knocking sound at the top end of the motor.
It will only give horrible leak down if the piston gets damaged (from lack of lube from the big end squirt hole in the conrod - sometimes they close over when a bearing is spun).
I still vote that it may be an exhaust leak - what steps have you taken to determine that it is NOT an exhaust leak.
When valve cover was off - did you make sure that the screws were in the oil breather? I have seen the screws in oil breathers come loose and then get hammered by a valve lifter.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 20:27
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Fri, 04 June 2004 20:40 |
does anyone still think it could be a sticky lifter?
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We had a look at them while we cranked it over and they all seem to functioning correctly.
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Have you noticed it stops when the car warms up? Or dont u run it that long?
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I had to drive it for about 5 minutes and that was the time that the squealing noise stopped and as we were driving the noise sort of changed pitch a bit? still pretty loud though.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 20:30
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| YelloRolla wrote on Fri, 04 June 2004 23:46 |
I still vote that it may be an exhaust leak - what steps have you taken to determine that it is NOT an exhaust leak.
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looked and listened, any other advice
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When valve cover was off - did you make sure that the screws were in the oil breather? I have seen the screws in oil breathers come loose and then get hammered by a valve lifter.
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I don't exactly know what it looks like but I will check for anything loose.
As you can tell this is my first time pulling an engine apart
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 22:53
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if it stops after a while it may be something simple. Try and oil change with hpr40 and put 600ml of moreys stuff in it. My sister's eunos rattles and sqeals at startup - theres nothing wrong with the motor, its just a noisy prick when you start it. And it becomes quiet when its warm. I.e when oil pressure is fine and circulating well.
Does the tapping stop when the car gets warm??
Good luck
Blake
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 23:04
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sorry forgot to answer that question
After the 5 minute drive it did not stop but just slightly changed note. I haven't warmed it up fully since then but I will do it today.
The oil has just been changed about 50kms ago. It used to have 20-W50 in it. I put 10-W30 Repsol in it as that is what is recommended for the stock engine. What viscosity is the HPR40? I might add some of that Morey stuff to this current oil.
thanks
Chris
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 23:28
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HPR 40 is a 25w 70 oil
Moreys makes it very tacky..if u put moreys on your hand, you can see how it sticks to car components - hence it helps to lubricate.
I thnik it might be something minor wrong with your engine if this is all its doing.
Mores is $17 for 1L bottle, so use it wisely, and change the oil now if you need to.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Fri, 04 June 2004 23:57
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Ok, I just did the test GT said with the big end bearings and there was no movement at all so I can rule out big and little bearings.
Now, I am going to drain the oil fully and check for any remains of bearings in there.
Then I am buying some of this Morey's stuff to put in. Are you sure I should put the HPR40 in it as that is bloody thick compared to what I have currently!
thanks again
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 00:35
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nothing in the oil! looks good.
BTW might want to move this to the technical section hey 
going to get this Morey's stuff now.
later
Chris
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 00:40
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lol good luck
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 03:01
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i was there that day and it is NOT an exhaust leak, definate tap from inside the engine.
am i to beleive that the 1JZ has shium under bucket setup with no hydraulic lifters at all, like an 18RG.
chris, check your valve clearance, if its ok, u might wana think about pulling the cams out and checking for a snapped valve spring
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 03:09
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All JZs are shim on bucket.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 04:38
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hmm, new info.
lifted the car up and put this Oil stabiliser in and when I started it, I saw some liquid coming out the exhaust? So I checked it out and it looks like coolant.
Does this mean I have blown a head gasket and if so why wouldn't the compression be down?
????????????????????????
Confused?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 04:53
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forgot to mention that the tapping continued even when it got warm with the oil stabiliser in it.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 06:59
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is there any way that water can get into the exhaust from the turbos as they are water cooled?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 07:26
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1jzs run hot, the thicker oil is designed for turbo cars and motors running hot, if you read the label it says this. Also your engine isnt new, its getting old and worn components require more lubrication than obviously a thin oil can provide.
I run hpr40 on my ma70 and it works perfect...and the engine has only done 6000km now! And i cain the shit out of it regularly.I have no rattles, or any noises from the car whatsoever (apart from a buzzing coil!).
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 07:27
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the exhaust will be totally blocked off from the turbos water galleries surely?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 07:29
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doesnt make a chuffing and farting noise does it? Then u could assess blown head gasket further...
Note: the stabilizer wont make a huge difference to the noise if its real bad...but its a good thing to have in your oil, trust me
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 07:50
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no chuffing or anything. Idles as it usually does except there is water coming out of the exhaust and more water comes out when you rev it a little.
Started pulling the turbos off and got a bit stuck  Starting again tomorrow. If that is not the problem then the head will be coming off.
thanks
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sat, 05 June 2004 07:52
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if there is a HG leak between your coolant galleries and the water is coming INTO the combustion chamber then u wont have a compression loss,
from what i am aware the water galleries in turbo's run around the oil galleries ang get nowhere near the exhaust wheel.
is it losing water
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 04:11
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yep it lost a bit of water.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 06:18
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if it is losing water then u may have a BHG between the combustion chamber and the water galleries and it pumping water into the combustion chamber but no gases INTO the water system
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 08:35
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the water or oil isnt creamy coloured?
If its not its a big call saying youve got a BHG...
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 09:27
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there was no creamyness in the oil but the water that was coming out the exhaust was very brown but that could just be because of the crap in there.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 09:50
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| Chris Davey wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 19:27 |
there was no creamyness in the oil but the water that was coming out the exhaust was very brown but that could just be because of the crap in there.
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could've just been mixing with teh carbon
i'd next take out the cams and check the valve buckets and springs
but b4 u do, check the valve clearance
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 10:05
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sorry for all these newbie questions, but how do you check valve clearance?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 10:36
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| Chris Davey wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 20:05 |
sorry for all these newbie questions, but how do you check valve clearance?
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take it to a qualified mechanic if you're not confident to do that...
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 10:44
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nah sounds easy. just need the figures that I am supposed to be getting.
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 10:55
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I noticed you said that the noise got softer as the engine warmed up...
Dare I suggest piston slap??? Or Piston Pin probs???
The piston will expand when the engine warms up and the noise will get softer whereas a bearing knock will get louder as the engine warms up as the oil gets thinner...
My guess here might just be piston probs, might have a cracked piston or something and that would rectify the compression loss too...
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 10:58
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| Rolla Boy wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 20:55 |
I noticed you said that the noise got softer as the engine warmed up...
Dare I suggest piston slap??? Or Piston Pin probs???
The piston will expand when the engine warms up and the noise will get softer whereas a bearing knock will get louder as the engine warms up as the oil gets thinner...
My guess here might just be piston probs, might have a cracked piston or something and that would rectify the compression loss too...
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yeah, Gudgin (spelling) pin was a possibility that we were thinking of.
Compression is still good though.
Also, when we cranked the car over with no spark but spark plugs in there was no tapping so that means that there must be some compression to make the noise. I don't know if that helps find the problem though
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:14
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A piston pin will give out a double knock on every stroke of the piston... Piston slap will be only one knock...
Didn't you say that compression was down in one or two clyinders???
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:17
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the original test was down somehow but I think they mustn't have screwed it in properly because we then retested it and they were all fine.
so not piston slap but possible piston pin.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:19
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gudgeon pins wont make it rattle and squeal though, and pour out coolant from the exhaust.
its a very weird case chris, i mean what more can you do? its getting to the stage of pulling it down completely to assess all components. but this also means you know what your working with - like i did with the 7mge. And you can also know you are safe if you're planning a big hp single turbo...
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:24
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yeah, I have a feeling that there may be more than one problem.
What sort of sound does a loose gudgin pin make?
My plan is to check the valve clearances, then pull the cams out and check shims, buckets and valve springs. If there is no problem found then pull the head off which will most like be pulling the engine out of the car first.
Hopefully by the end of all of that I will find the problem.
Did you have a look at the pics blake? what do you think?
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:27
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Well there seems to be all these noises and problems... Maybe it's more than one thing wrong with the motor...
And did you think that it might just be time to change the title of this thread??? How can you be such a happy chappy... My cooling system is having probs that i can't work out and it's frustrating the hell out of me... Replaced water pump, hoses, thermostat, pressure tested and the piece of shit still wants to overheat...
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: not so happy chappy :(
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:33
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Hehehe... Nice thread title ...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: not so happy chappy :(
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:47
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I just took a look at the pics of the bearings and the crankshaft and they look fine to me... Did you measure the thickness of them by any chance???
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: I am a happy chappy :)
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Sun, 06 June 2004 11:49
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but why would this happen after it has been towed 200k from the north coast, it was fine the day b4 and when it got to the drags it was fucked
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: not so happy chappy :(
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Sun, 06 June 2004 13:28
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what about a cracked head? might explain water making its way from cooling system to exhaust?
chris: seeing as you've pulling a few bearing caps off - and they look slightly worn and fine 0 - why not pull the head off or pull entire motor - as the bottom end really now needs re-torqing as per the manual.
this will also get you access to the top of the pistons and bore, where any sign of piston crown failure will be self evident.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: not so happy chappy :(
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Mon, 07 June 2004 01:07
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| thechuckster wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 23:28 |
what about a cracked head? might explain water making its way from cooling system to exhaust?
chris: seeing as you've pulling a few bearing caps off - and they look slightly worn and fine 0 - why not pull the head off or pull entire motor - as the bottom end really now needs re-torqing as per the manual.
this will also get you access to the top of the pistons and bore, where any sign of piston crown failure will be self evident.
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Yep, that is what I think I will have to do. Just have to organise an engine stand and an engine hoist. I guess in the end, if I still can't find the problem I will just have to buy another engine and use this one for parts.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: not so happy chappy :(
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Mon, 07 June 2004 05:55
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parting out a 1jz would score you alot of money
could get 500-600 for turbo's alone
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: not so happy chappy :(
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Mon, 07 June 2004 10:59
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at least with the head off you can have it pressure, straightness and softness tested!
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