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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Sun, 06 June 2004 23:48
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Hello, is anyone aware of a clutch master cylinder that will fit the RA28 but has a larger bore diameter than the stock unit?
I think the stock one is 19mm or so.
Many thanks
Joel
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 01:54
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Mate after a clutch, not brake.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 01:55
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2 bolt identical to the AE86 item as far as I can tell.
One is a stud you put a nut on the other a bolt.
It is 5/8ths I think.
Cheers
Joel
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 01:56
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 sorry still sleepy
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 01:57
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LOL you were too quick, i misread and was referring to the brake but see amended post above
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 02:03
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hah i'll ammend my post so i dont feel like a knob 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 02:13
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joel, i cant help you wiht your question, but i will bother you with a question...
why do you need a larger clutch master cylinder?
i can understand wanting a larger brake master cylinder (which i too thought this post was about)
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 02:39
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Howdy,
The reason for larger clutch master.. Since converting to r&p I have lost a good 25mm + of clutch peddle travel. This is because the base of the steering column is a different shape and interferes with the peddle.
I don't know what the go is though.. Like my AE86 you can push the clutch in hardly anything and change gears. But the RA28 setup the clutch has to be right on the floor before the clutch disengages. (I've got brand new master and slave and is bled with no air in the lines)
So it's making it difficult to shift as the clutch won't disengage fully.
I put a 1mm smaller slave cylinder on, which has helped, but not enough.
Now I originally thought a larger master cylinder would help, and also make the peddle softer (as with smaller slave it's getting pretty hard), but I think I was wrong and a larger master will make it harder again?
Which in that case, I could just get an even smaller slave.
So yeah trying to get the clutch to disengage with less peddle travel. I'd like to know why in the AE86 you can push the peddle in 40mm or so and it disengages. Whereas RA28 you have to get the clutch to the floor before it does.
Does the internal diameter of the pipe between the clutch master and slave play any part in this?
Cheers
Joel
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 03:01
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i know you probahbly have allready tried this but... have you moved the pedal adjuster to maximum so that the shift force is up high instead of near the floor? like what youre referring to with your sprinter, i only have to move mine about 2" once ive adjusted it up to the correct height
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 03:09
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a smaller master cylined will move less fluid for a given amount of travel, hence less slave cylinder travel and less pedal effort.
a larger master cylinder will move more fluid for a given amount of pedal travel, hence more slave cylinder travel and higher pedal effort.
but as IRA11Y has mentioned, i think you just need to adjust the pedal to shift you friction point, clutches dont need much pedal movement at all, for example my sprinter pedal used to disengage with very little pedal movement, very annoying, but i adjusted it and it is heaps better now (apart from it bouncing around when i slip my foot off the pedal)
to adjust it, take your drivers seat out (thank me later)
this will really hurt your back. neck etc but there is no way around it unless you know what you are adjusting....
there is a threaded rod which attatches the clutch pedal to the master cylinder, with a lock nut on it, undo the lock nut and adjust it until it feels right, then do the lock nut back up and take it from there!
good luck
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 03:09
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Yes Joel the realtionship between master cyl bore and clutch bore have an effect. The problem of it picking up too close to the floor could mean the the pressure plate diaphragm has collapsed.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 03:12
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if the spring diaphragm has colapsed, he would know about it with his engine,
i broke the spring diaphragm in my 4ac sprinter, which i am pretty sure was a direct result of having a badly adjusted clutch, and it was pushing the spring way too far, anyway, it wouldn't accelerate any faster than very very slow without copious amounts of clutch slip and revving out.
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 03:19
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You're probably right - it would most likely slip like a bastard.
I have had a badly manufactured cluth behave just like Joel has explained, it went for ages with no clutch slip - This was a brand new item which I replaced with a second hand item - problem solved (I assumed that the clutch diaphragm/fulcrum geometry was out).
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 04:10
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I've adjusted the rod between pedal and master cylinder, so there is only a few mm of freeplay. So thats not the cause.
Yellorolla - anyway to determine if it is a collapsed pressure plate without removing gearbox?
The clutch feels ok in terms of no slippage. The clutch fork has plenty of pressure on it - wouldn't a collapsed diaphragm not return the fork/slave cylinder?
Thanks all for your input.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Redbank Plains,near Ipswi...
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 05:49
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both hilux and landcruiser have bigger cylinders. virtually every toyota car since 84 has the same master cyl size, but there are at least 3 different strokes. the alloy ones are typically longer stroke and mount lower on the pedal (longer travel). standard clutches need standard hydraulics!!!. you have a problem sonewhere. early pick-up tends to suggest a worn out plate, not stuffed diaphram
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 06:49
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Thanks mate for that info.
I'm not too sure if there really is a problem though, if I had the standard steering column in the car and the pedal could go down another 20mm or so I think it would be ok (it used to be fine).
But now i've lost that amount of travel so need to work out a combo that will push the slave cylinder enough with the amount of pedal travel avaliable.
It might prove easier modifying the base of the steering column or bending the clutch pedal in a fashion that will allow it to travel somewhere closer to factory?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 06:53
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get an old adjuster and weld it on to the end of yours to give it more length at the pedal ??
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 06:56
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Not a bad idea!
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 07:01
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adjuster will not give the cylinder a longer stroke though. It will only change the start/finish point.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 07:05
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yeah but if im understanding the problem correctly?? he isnt getting enough throw as the new rack is in the way so if he extends the adjuster he might be able to get the throw to maximum.. I dunno, its hard to say without sighting it 
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 07:09
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Michael - we have had more conversation today via forums than we have had face to face in the last 12mths.
Joel - just change it to auto, problem solved 
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Mon, 07 June 2004 07:13
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its not my fault ive become a hermit.. blame my FN car and trying to get ecu's running 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Larger clutch master cyl. for RA28?
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Tue, 08 June 2004 03:07
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Hi all, last night I pulled the pedal out of the car just to get a better look at it all. Was originally thinking of trying to bend it a bit so it gets around the base of the column.
Anyway, noticed where the pin goes through (that connects to the rod & master) was elongated heaps. So the pin was very sloppy in there, the pin had also worn down a lot I think due to the odd shape of the hole through the pedal.
I drilled out the hole larger (10mm) and returned it to a circular shape (was more of a oval from being worn). Did the same with the end of the rod that slides onto the pedal.
Made up a new pin (using an old bolt that had a nonthreaded section and was 10mm in diameter) and put that in there.
I haven't been for a drive yet but I think this will help out a bit.
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Location:
Auckland, New Zealand
Registered:
January 2003
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