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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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 r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 21 June 2004 09:18
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ive been looking around for what i need to do to upgrade my 1st gear thrust washer. So far ive had no luck trying to find the appropraite info.
Ive tried to pm wastegate a couple of times, but havent had a reply so im asking you guys for some help please!
What new part do i need?
how much is it?
Where do i get it from?
Can my gearbox mechanic do it for me?
Thanks
Blake
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 21 June 2004 12:46
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Pretty simple really. Remove thrust washer. Take it to a machinist. Get them to make some out of something stronger than what the original is made of. Fit new thrust washer.
Your gearbox mechanic will be able to give you your thrust washer. A machinist will need to make one for you.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 04:03
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anyone heard of cbc bearings? I was told they may make one?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 04:14
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In the HPI "Sin City Soarer" buildup they used a slightly modded Landcruiser one. I don't have the issue anymore though.
If it's just a washer, surely any engineering places would be able to machine anb exact replica in stronger materials?
CBC - Consolidated Bearing Company? They've got a few shops in SA - selling all sorts of bearings etc.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 04:22
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i think that name sounds right...but i need to find out if they make one or not 
im not the clueist when it comes to boxes...where do i find the part no located in the box?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 04:33
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Mon, 28 June 2004 14:22 |
im not the clueist when it comes to boxes..
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We all know that  forget CBC there not real helpful pull the washer out take it to a machinist put the replacement in
DONE
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 04:49
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as i said im stupid, where is the washer? in the rear extension housing?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 05:03
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just for info, thrust washers are usually made out of slightly softer materials (often copper/bronze) with a steel backing. the softer material reduces friction when metal to metal contact is made and prevents wear, and particularly galling, of the gear metal.
if you were really keen you could look into thrust bearings, but they are much thicker (5-10mm), but would reduce friction quite a lot.
CBC usually supply bearings, but my local ones do not modify or make custom ones.
what happens to the 'normal' bearing you speak of? can it be made with a larger surface area to reduce wear rate and increase load capacity?
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 05:08
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i really dont know, i have just been told it collapses under lots of power and takes the whole box with it
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 28 June 2004 21:22
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Dave has summed up what you need to do, it's a pretty easy exercise. Go into Toyota and ask for Part Number 33348 35010. I believe it's around $5 dollars.
http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/technical/R154.ht m
If you abuse your gearbox, have decent hp, sticky tyres etc it could end up looking like this
The landcruiser thrust washer is also a cast part. Get 1 made out of chromoly.
If you look at the intermediate plate and then move forward you'll see a big mofo of a gear (First gear). The thrust washer sits behind that gear, infront of the output shaft bearing.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Tue, 29 June 2004 08:14
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stenno..legend mate...i couldnt find that part no anywhere!
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Wed, 30 June 2004 10:23
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YES PPL PLEASE HELP . my thrust washer is broken/ worn out .. whatever !! im am pulling out the gbox this weekend so i can fix it .. damm weak ass r154 !!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Wed, 30 June 2004 13:20
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| slylux wrote on Wed, 30 June 2004 20:23 |
YES PPL PLEASE HELP . my thrust washer is broken/ worn out .. whatever !! im am pulling out the gbox this weekend so i can fix it .. damm weak ass r154 !!
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if it wasnt for that washer theyd be very far from weak...
Can you show me please where u took it from? Like i mean when i pull mine out...i need to know which one it is!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 04:51
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This will be of assistance then > http://www.turbosupras.com/pdfs/A70%20TSRM/14_MT.p df
Btw the Landcruise thrust washer is the same PN as the R154 Thrust washer - it's the same part, once again Martin Donnon amazes  , bit like his soarer vs supra diff comments, pity there are 2 diff codes for the Supra rear end which reflect the sizes.
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 05:21
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Go to a bearing company, what you want looks like a needle roller but operates on a flat plane not around a shaft. I have used these before as a replacement for such items. I just cant remember what they are called
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 11:41
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| clubagreenie wrote on Thu, 01 July 2004 15:21 |
Go to a bearing company, what you want looks like a needle roller but operates on a flat plane not around a shaft. I have used these before as a replacement for such items. I just cant remember what they are called
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thrust bearing... what i was trying to get at before  they may be too tall to fit without mods tho...
Cya,S tewart
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 12:10
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| clubagreenie wrote on Thu, 01 July 2004 15:21 |
Go to a bearing company, what you want looks like a needle roller but operates on a flat plane not around a shaft. I have used these before as a replacement for such items. I just cant remember what they are called
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Yup, clearly labelled and all 
A roller bearing thrust washer is a good idea however what is the load rating on a washer of that thickness?
It's not friction that kills the washer, it's force on the gears being engaged and having a sledge hammer effect on the washer during hard shifting.
Slow down on the shifts and these boxes last a long time.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 12:38
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ok ill pull the r154 std one out this weekend.
thanks guys
Blake
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 12:59
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load rating is very high!!!!
http://www.timken.com/industries/torrington/catalo g/pdf/needle/n_thrust.pdf
if lbf is pounds force (the numbers sound right.. the ones i used for my strut tops had static rating of about 1.5 tonnes)
31.75mm OD bearing,
static load rating = 6090 lbf
dynamic load rating = 1770 lbf
limiting speed, 14000rpm.
heres one in metric
http://www.ondrives.com/products.asp?recnumber=218
30.5mm OD = 1160kg of force (dynamic)
but as Stenno said, it's shock loading that kills boxes.... same goes for teeth, it's not often outright power. it's the 2 or 3 shock loading events that start the fatigue cracks...
have fun 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 01 July 2004 18:46
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the less end play its got, the less "shock load" it'll receive.
it's still hard for me to see a cast piece like that breaking up if the load on it is distributed equally.
also, handling high "shock loads" is not one of the best features of needle/roller thrust bearings.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 02 July 2004 07:56
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| allencr wrote on Fri, 02 July 2004 04:46 |
the less end play its got, the less "shock load" it'll receive.
it's still hard for me to see a cast piece like that breaking up if the load on it is distributed equally.
also, handling high "shock loads" is not one of the best features of needle/roller thrust bearings.
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By shock loads you mean like flat changing, or just shifting quickly with a lot of power transfering through the box?
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 02 July 2004 09:49
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I used to replace intermediate shaft thrust washers in range rover gearboxes. the originals are white-metal over bronze. They wouldn't break as the 154's but would just wear away the softer material. Once they were gone the shaft would wear because of the increase end float of the gears. There were 4 in total, one at each end and one between each gear. Never had any problems and that was in a constant 4wd box always under load (not being shifted though). The gears should have pretty close tolerances though, getting the right clearances could be difficult if using bearings only (correct me if I'm wrong about the clearances)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 02 July 2004 10:34
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Fri, 02 July 2004 17:56 |
| allencr wrote on Fri, 02 July 2004 04:46 |
the less end play its got, the less "shock load" it'll receive.
it's still hard for me to see a cast piece like that breaking up if the load on it is distributed equally.
also, handling high "shock loads" is not one of the best features of needle/roller thrust bearings.
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By shock loads you mean like flat changing, or just shifting quickly with a lot of power transfering through the box?
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BOTH. Flat changing will kill an R154 and alot of other gearboxes *very* quickly.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 02 July 2004 10:42
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bullshit aside, theyre a fuckload tougher than a w58 arent they?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 02 July 2004 13:55
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I don't see where the bullshit is?
1 would think so as they run a much larger gearset, but size doesn't always mean everything, right? That first gear thrust washer isn't something you see W58 gearboxes suffering from, Norbie put close enough to 400HP through his and he stripped 1 of the gears - there may have been other factors involved in causing the gear(s) to strip out but who knows, fact is there wasn't a thrust washer self destructing inside the box.
I'd be willing to bet my left nut if it was an R154 the thrust washer would have been long gone, especially the way Norbie drives
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 02 July 2004 14:09
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i dont see why.. the r154 is meant to be heaps stronger
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Sat, 03 July 2004 13:35
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Do you say that based on personal experience, or just what you've heard? I've heard lots of misinformation about gearboxes, so take everything you hear with a grain of salt.
As Stenno said, the W58 in my Supra survived 400hp and my "enthusiastic" driving style for almost a year before it let go, and even then it was really the flat-changing that killed it (this will kill nearly any box). While I've never owned an R154, I know Wastegate destroyed two of them with a near-stock 7M. I think it's fair to say they're both very tough boxes but they both have weaknesses.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Sun, 04 July 2004 01:50
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Yeah a brass button clutch and sticky big arse rubber at the back really puts the load on the box.
I always broke it going into 3rd. Took 2 rebuilds of the box to figure out it that thrust washer is not up to it.
I toyed with the idea of getting that part custom make out of unobtainium but just got a 1jzgte frontcut instead with a new r154 that I treated nicely.
Get a V160! excuse for a 2jz as well..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Sun, 04 July 2004 12:00
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only from what ive heard.. and also i am running std clutch with only 235 wide dunlops.. so i dont think ill be breaking it.
also its just logical
w58 goes back as far as 5-me?.. then they put it behind a 1g gte and a 2jz ge...
where are the r154 has been behind the 7m gte and the 1jz gte
also on the 7m-ge was a w58?.. so that would sorta point out it was the stronger box.. ofcourse this is all just assumption and what ive heard from other people
but mines doing fine
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Sun, 04 July 2004 13:00
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yeah.. so basically r154 was for higher power cars compared to w58
thats all i was saying
and i saw urs.. but didnt take a good look
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Sun, 04 July 2004 13:05
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 13:29 |
So unobtanium is the material to have one made out of?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Sun, 04 July 2004 13:15
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| BlackSupra wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 23:05 |
| V8_MA61 wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 13:29 |
So unobtanium is the material to have one made out of?
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blake, i think ya missed the sarcasm.. unob as in unobtainable... anyway lol
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 05 July 2004 03:34
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 22:08 |
ga70s and ma70 na and jza80 na used a w58
5mes used a 58 with an alloy plate..u saw mine johal didnt u?
r154s came in jza70s and ma70 turbos.
v160s came out in jza80 turbo.
as for other models of cars..bleh, like anyone cares
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Don't forget the Soarers got the R154 as well.
For interests sake I never busted an R154 but I was never ruthless to it.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 05 July 2004 05:17
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mine makes a funny rattle on full power in 3rd and 5th high in revs.. not sure what it is though
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 05 July 2004 08:52
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how the fuck am i supposed to know what unobtanium was if it was even a metal/ sarcasm?
Theres fucken hundreds of metal products around
smartass
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 05 July 2004 10:51
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| Quote: |
For interests sake I never busted an R154 but I was never ruthless to it.
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For interest's sake the bloke who ended up with your rebuilt R154 just busted it...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 05 July 2004 12:13
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haha gold
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Location:
TX, USA
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Thu, 08 July 2004 04:02
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Does anybody know the generic dimensions for the thrust washer?
Bore, outer diameter, thickness, etc? Thanks
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 09 August 2004 11:00
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ok i got mine out..what an ordeal! a 15 ton press had to be used to get off 5th gear!!
seems to be a pain in the ass to get one made! Shops seem to think it might be a design flaw in their keyway causing them to snap.
Its gonna cost me about $100 at a guess..
Will let you all know how i go
Blake
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Mon, 09 August 2004 11:07
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might look further at your roller thrust washer page stuart..might be worth it !
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 thrust washer upgrade
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Fri, 27 August 2004 12:19
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well mine is made and fitted..
got it made case hardned. No use showing pics as it looks no different to original bar cleaner
And only cost me $60.
got a spare std one lying around if someone wants?
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