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SupraPete
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LAN Gaming cafe Mon, 05 July 2004 11:08 Go to next message

LAN Gaming[ 26 vote(s) ]
1.Never have never will 6 / 23%
2.Whats a game cafe? 3 / 12%
3.seen one, would like to have a go 6 / 23%
4.been a couple of times, would like one closer 5 / 19%
5.go all the time, love it 6 / 23%

Anyone here go to a gaming cafe? Go regularly?

I'm doing some market research as I might be opening my own.

Who would come if I put one (up to 30PCs) in Revesby? or Campbeltown?

Would be around the $2.50 - $3.00 an hour (possibly), run from 6pm friday night till midnight sunday with people coming any/every hour of the day/night.

Games would be whatever the population wanted (even warcraft 3 events). New games would be stuff like Doom III when it comes out next month, BattleField Vietnam or BF1942 secret weapons etc.

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Shraka
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Mon, 05 July 2004 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seen one around here. Looks a bit dodgy (this particular one) but I wouldn't mind giving it a go. Would probably go with a few friends.

I live in Melbourne, so I'm not comming to yours. Very Happy
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jackel
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Mon, 05 July 2004 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i go to them every so often, use to go to them all the time but you just see less people using them but they are good aslong as you can get people to go and have fast computers and good games
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Mon, 05 July 2004 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What about when Doom III comes out? If it had PCs that could run it nicely.
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lyle-act
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i have a fair few mates that work at lan cafes... they all seem to do ok... though alot of lancafes have come and gone with in the last year.

Location, location, location. Wink

[Updated on: Tue, 06 July 2004 00:08]

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rob_RA40
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
it would be hard to get anything up and running in campbelltown unless your set up in the right spot.

i see shops set up in the worst areas of c'town wondering how the hell the manage to stay open without any through fare traffic.

there was a internet cafe in queen st a few yrs ago, he made most his money from being an ISP, rather than the cafe. He has sinced move to a 4 meter by 3 meter shop hiding under an escalator and is only running the ISP and some PC repair on the side.

ive spend yrs in c'town PM me if u want any more details of locations and new areas of development and where most of the ppl traffic is. i can also get some details of traffic and sales data from the mall and macarthur square.

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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rob, if you've spent years in C'town, then you'd know about the LAN games shop already there. Maybe you could take me on a tour of that one, I havn't been there yet.


lyle, as for location, location, location. I agree in an "internet cafe" you need the people walking past as its more of a tourist thing. But a GAMES cafe doesn't rely on tourists, they generally have a base of people that want to come and play. Most of the LAN gaming shops you wouldn't even know it was there - blacked out windows to reduce glare, etc.

I travel from Revesby to Parramatta once a month to play games at MPU. Its a half hour drive.

Can you be more specific on what type of location is good/bad? Are you talking general as in this suburb or that suburb, or specific like near a shopping mall, or near a train station etc.

Where did your mates have their lan-cafe's and what type of cafe was it (internet or games).
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rob_RA40
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmmm, im not sure how to interpret your reply.

tho i previously didnt fully understand what your looking to setup. i do now and was only trying to offer help.

*shruggs*
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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If I was to go to a LAN cafe I would want the most current games - running on decent machines. This would mean a complete equiptment upgrade every 12-18 months. You would have to build that cost into your pricing. This is why I think the majority of these businesses go down.

An internet cafe is more economical as there isn't the same need for capital equipment turnover...every 2-3 years is fine for a net terminal... (or use thin clients and then you only ever need to upgrade the server)
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jezz
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
you should look at setting one up in canberra while there are a few that are already here a lot of people are looking for better i.e size of place, speed of equipment and type's of facilities.
i have already researched into this idea in canberra but the finiacial backing fell through.
just remember in canberra if its good people will travel as the majority of my research has found.

But thats only if your interested in making money.

if you have any more question swing me an email

jeremy.marsh@facs.gov.au


Cheers

Jeremy

[Updated on: Tue, 06 July 2004 03:13]

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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fri 6pm - Sun midnight = 54 hours

assuming 100% usage (foolish!)

income:
54 * 30 * 3 = $5220 per weekend
5220 * 52 = $271440 per year

expenses:
GST = $271440/10 = 27144
Rent in campbletown = approx $25000 pa
Computer costs (decent gaming machine, say $2500 a piece, reduced to $2000 when you buy 30) = $60000
Directors salaray (your pay) = $40000

To run 30 machines you would want 2 staff members on at all times (no less for security reasons anyways) say you employ uni students at $10 an hour = 54*10*52 = 28080

total obvious expenses : 180244


plus you have to look at public liability insurance: $????
workers comp: $????
bookkeeping fees $ ????
Tax administration $????

this is if you have 100% usage, i think 50% mean usage is a more realistic figure, all of a sudden - you are goin waaay out the back door!!

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lyle-act
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i have no idea about where you are thinking as... i live in canberra heh.

Lazy Boys in canberra is really awesome lancafe. Its near a big bunch of shops, but to close for people to see you going there (nerds are scared of people). It has AWESOME seats, a lounge area with a projector running ChannelV or something, and the one thing that so many lancafes go cheap on... Air Con!!
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rob_RA40 wrote on Tue, 06 July 2004 12:24

hmmm, im not sure how to interpret your reply.

tho i previously didnt fully understand what your looking to setup. i do now and was only trying to offer help.

*shruggs*


There weren't any of these in there Twisted Evil or anything else, so don't take it as a joke, or sarchasm. I usually try and point out when I'm making fun.
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jaikat
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It sounds like a good idea even if you way up the costs..

Key to all good businesses is marketing, from what I've heard and aiming your potential income based population/economic area. Of course find a location that won't charge you the earth to rent. Plus you would need to check if you need council permission to operate the business for the hours you mentioned.
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Squid, I love your approach. Theres a few things I'd change though. I'll see if I can make this still readable.

Keep in mind that while it is a weekend thing, it'll be a hobby, and won't be paying my mortgage as well. On the weekend we can have one of the two of us owners running it, or maybe get someone else in for the day-time hours of sat & sun.

We'd be hoping to do it for a $30k outlay, and start with 20 or just over 20 PCs. But to keep it simple, we'll stick to 30 at the moment, as thats where I'd like it.


Fri 6pm - Sun midnight = 54 hours

assuming 100% usage (foolish!) agreed, probably looking close to 30 hours AFTER it has been setup and running for a while, and that'd still be a GOOD weekend

income:
54 * 30 * 3 = $5220 per weekend
30 * 30 * 3 = $2700 per weekend
5220 * 52 = $271440 per year
2700 * 52 = $140400 per year


expenses:
GST = $271440/10 = 27144
GST = $140400/11 = 12736
Rent in campbletown = approx $25000 pa
Rent in campbletown/revesby = approx $17000 pa (found a suitable one for just over $300 a week)
Computer costs (decent gaming machine, say $2500 ($900) a piece, reduced to $2000 ($850) when you buy 30) = $60000 ($25,500)
Directors salaray (your pay) = $40000 (theres 2 of us, and we'd be doing this as a hobby - hense the weekend thing)

To run 30 machines you would want 2 staff members on at all times (no less for security reasons anyways) say you employ uni students at $10 an hour = 54*10*52 = 28080
We were thinking about putting a uni student on during week nights (later). As for minimum 2 people, thats not right at all. 1 person to manage 30 PCs is what all the current ones do. Especially if its one of the owners doing it.

total obvious expenses : 180244 (about 60k + "directors salary" for the first year. Every year an updated video card at $250 each)


plus you have to look at public liability insurance: $????
workers comp: $????
bookkeeping fees $ ????
Tax administration $????
These are still unknown, we'll have to find out

this is if you have 100% usage, i think 50% mean usage is a more realistic figure, all of a sudden - you are goin waaay out the back door!!
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rob_RA40
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no wuccas pete Cool
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jaikat wrote on Tue, 06 July 2004 14:10

It sounds like a good idea even if you way up the costs..

Key to all good businesses is marketing, from what I've heard and aiming your potential income based population/economic area. Of course find a location that won't charge you the earth to rent. Plus you would need to check if you need council permission to operate the business for the hours you mentioned.


Yeah your right, we're in the process of market analysis and business planning stage to find out if its viable.

There will be a problem with council permission, I think most of the places aren't allowed to go that late, but no one cares as nerds don't make much noise. The place we're looking at in revesby is close to the 24 hour club though, so there might be a bit of lee-way there. Something else to find out.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ok dude, I'm all for this, but there ain't that much mark up on computer gear, and I can't for the life of me work out how you'd make a decent gaming machine for $900 let alone $850!
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damn, man I've never paid over $1,000 for a computer. The PC I'm on now I've had for over a year and a half, so it has lasted a while. I did upgrade the video card about 6 months ago.

Also that $800 is using a seccond hand 17" monitor, which brings the cost down dramatically.
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      wtf is jabber
Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Awww you need nice big 18inch flat screens!!! Laughing Shocked
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You supply them. We'll use them.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A new 17" montior is only around $170. Don't forget that you'll need to purchase a copy of Windows for each one. Thats like $145 each trade price. An $850 computer will have onboard sound, and a shitty video card, if not onboard graphics. You really need to spend an extra couple of hundred on a decent graphics card for each of them otherwise they will choke and die on new games. You can probably skimp on stuff like hard drives, but they are cheap as now anyway.
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Tue, 06 July 2004 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It worked out it'd be about $800 for an over 2gig with 1/2 a gig of ram and a 40gig hdd. And have a $260 video card. Which I'm SURE will run the latest games, and probably the ones up to the end of the year.



But anyway, system price isn't the issue. I need to know if people will come and play!
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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

But anyway, system price isn't the issue. I need to know if people will come and play!


But you see the two are linked...

I wouldn't pay a cent to play on a 2 gig machine - thats just damn foolish... my 2 year old laptop is specced better than that. Don't forget gamers are a fussy bunch... it would be good if you could set it up with a bring your own machine sort of deal - but then how do you stop some dickhead from giving everyone a virus...

Sorry i am not trying to shit on your idea...i think it is good and has merit, just playing devil's advocate.


Don't forget as well as windows you need to buy 30 copies of each of the games you intend on running... dunno what games mfr's do for bulk purchases, would hope it would be something!
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Squid wrote on Wed, 07 July 2004 14:32

I wouldn't pay a cent to play on a 2 gig machine - thats just damn foolish... my 2 year old laptop is specced better than that.


Wow, so you'd rather play at home by yourself, then on a 2gig machine with 20 of your friends. You sound like a unix/linux person "I use linux at home, I can't do anything with it, but at least its not windows" (Not that theres anything wrong with that)

Dumb question, but what games CAN'T be played on a 2gig machine? Why would you need more than 2gig to play any of the current games? I'm confused.

What sort of video card are you running? What video card on the laptop? The video cards I was budgetting for would be the 256Mb 9600XT for about $275. I really thought Gamers would be more interested in the video card specs than the speed of the processor.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 July 2004 04:54]

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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Actually I haven't played a game in a couple of years... I would rather go to the pub and drink with mates than sit around and play games!!!

I take it for $800 for a 2 gig you are talking a celery? if so forget it - laggy gaming here we come!!

the laptop has a 128 mb radeon - which is overkill cos as i mentioned i never play games...

Not many (or any) motherboards in that price range will support an 8x AGP bus either, so you may as well save your money on the video cards, if you are going to buy a mother board that can only use half it's capacity.

Last I checked you could have the fastest video card in the world, if it has to wait for the processor to tell it what the next step is, then you are just wasting time with the video card idle...


Specs for FAR CRY: (Gamers only ever look at the recommended, not the min specs)
Supported OS: Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP (only)
Processor: AMD Athlon 2400-3000+ or Pentium 4 2-3 GHz
RAM: 512-1024 MB
Video Card: 128 MB GeForce 4 128 MB to GeForce FX 5950; ATI Radeon 9500-9800 XT
Sound Card: Sound Blaster® Audigy® series
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0b (included on disc)
DVD-ROM: 8x-16x DVD
Hard Drive Space: 4 GB
Multiplayer: Broadband with 64 Kbps upstream to play (512 Kbps upstream to host 8 players)
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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 05:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://image.moddb.com/?path=/images/games/general /68image1.jpg&desc=In-game+action+shot+no.1+fr om+Far+Cry

In game shot - not bad... no celery stick can do that shit!!
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Squid wrote on Wed, 07 July 2004 15:29

Actually I haven't played a game in a couple of years... I would rather go to the pub and drink with mates than sit around and play games!!!



Come and drink at the shop! I won't mind Smile

I didn't think about Far Cry. That is probably the heavyest one on the market at the moment. And your right about never looking at minimum specs.

Looking at those specs, then they would fall short of the mark (slightly). We might need to up it by $70 and get a 2.8 gig chip instead.

Mobo prices are pretty low for a 8x AGP slot these days. I was factoring an 8x mobo into that price. I'll have to find my sheet of prices since we're slipping so much into symantics.


$82 HDD Western Digital 40G/8MB cache
$114 512MB Memory
$95 Mobo GB (GA-7N400)
$275 Video card (256Mb 9600XT)
$175 chip (AMD XP2800)
$60 Case
$60 keyboard & mouse
$20 CD drive

$881 total. Thats with a 2800 chip and a more expensive video card (was expecting under $250).

Doesn't include headphones, and might want better mice.

That system should be able to run Far Cry pretty well. And as I said before, I wasn't factoring a 17" monitor into the price.
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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Now a lan game BAR, there is an idea...


Tidy package - i would avoid AMD but that is just me (bad experience or 2)...there are P4's in that price range. (289 for a 2.8 gHz prescott...that should buy you another 6-12 months before replacement)

Make em bring own Headphones keyboards and mice if they don't like yours!
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Now your thinking!

Imagine the drinking games available!
"oh, I died again, thats another shot ..."
"server restarts, everyone drinks!"

Could have skimpy clothed serving girls that the nerds would've never seen before. They'd be throwing their money at them just to bring them to their PC! Very Happy

I'd love to grow it up from a 24PC shop, then move into a small hall with 100 PCs, then more and more and more! Have 500 PCs connected up. 10 staff running round helping everyone, and all the coke you could drink.
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Squid
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 06:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Would need some hard arse bouncers as drunk people and violent games may not be the best mix!!

Play a golf games with skins - loser shouts every player on each hole!

haha hot chicks? nerds with computers? bags not touching those keyboards!!

Prolly get cained if you put any driving games up - cos someone would get cocky and try to drive home...

By the way i know some cost recovery people, it isn't too exy to put a coin slot into a computer - would reduce admin...
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never thought of a coin operated PC.

Can you find out how much it'd cost, and how it'd interface to the logon/off. That'd be interesting.

I think most of the shops charge membership (to get peoples details mainly) and then they go up and buy 10 hours for $25 or something like that, then can logon/off whenever they want (if a PC is free).

Coin op could still have membership to get a username/password, then just coins to play. Would mean a lot of coins everywhere though, not just localised in the till. Would have to go to EVERY PC each night to collect it, as I wouldn't like to leave cash on site.


One thing I would like is a coin operated MAME PC, with full arcade machine joystick & buttons etc. That'd be cool.
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Benjamin
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Squid wrote on Wed, 07 July 2004 15:36

http://image.moddb.com/?path=/images/games/general /68image1.jpg&desc=In-game+action+shot+no.1+fr om+Far+Cry

In game shot - not bad... no celery stick can do that shit!!


Holy shit that is some graphics.... Shocked
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TokenBlackGuy
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      wtf is jabber
Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Squid wrote on Wed, 07 July 2004 15:36

http://image.moddb.com/?path=/images/games/general /68image1.jpg&desc=In-game+action+shot+no.1+fr om+Far+Cry

In game shot - not bad... no celery stick can do that shit!!


Mine can Cool

edit: whoops for some strange reason i thought i had a celeron! i dont know why, oh well i have a amd athlon tho dont really know if thats any better:lol:

[Updated on: Wed, 07 July 2004 15:25]

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TokenBlackGuy
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      wtf is jabber
Re: LAN Gaming cafe Wed, 07 July 2004 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wht bout one of those swipy keycard things like they have at intencity
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Fri, 09 July 2004 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I put a new website portal up on my server at home. Its got a new Survey.


Please take my survey.

http://218.214.51.138

[Updated on: Fri, 16 July 2004 01:13]

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EvilJack
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Fri, 09 July 2004 02:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pete: if you have a big sign out the front which reads...

"CS IS BANNED, ENTER AND WE WILL STEAL YOUR POCKET MONEY"

I reckon it would take off pretty well Evil or Very Mad
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joyride
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Thu, 15 July 2004 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
theres a few netcafes around hurstville, one in particular is LAN games (counter strike). everyday after school that place is packed with frigging kids. i can never get a pc when i need to look for car parts.
i think they charge something like $1.50 per 30 mins...
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SupraPete
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Fri, 16 July 2004 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah average price is around $3 an hour. And I think there might be a few in Hurstville already. We considered that as one of our possible locations, there is a BIG userbase there, but want to cut out our own market instead of move in on someone elses.



Update on parts, we bought 49 used monitors a couple of days ago. They're in storage now waiting for a shop and computers.

... yes we only want to start with 24 computers, but at the price we got them for we couldn't say no to them.
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joyride
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Fri, 16 July 2004 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
best place to open a LAN cafe is right next to a high school. LOL Laughing

have you ever considered campsie?
good luck with your business ventures dude
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THE WITZL
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Re: LAN Gaming cafe Sat, 17 July 2004 02:50 Go to previous message
If you had "good" hardware I'm sure people (inc me) would pay $5 an hour...

Those places that do it for like 1.50 to 3bucks an hour are using dated hardware and nearly always are using pirated or otherwise not properly licensed software.

Remember in addition to your rent you are going to want to have internet connectivity which will cost you a bit for a proper commercial connection (DSL etc.)

I think you could only really make this work if you also sold pc's and overpriced food and beverages!

There was a place here in Castle Hill several years ago that did it all legit and properly and it ended up going broke and closing down... It was near the industrial area off Victoria Av

Toobs @ Witzl's PC @ My Place (Go Figure!)
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