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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Freedom of Speech
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Fri, 09 July 2004 05:52
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Here's just something that I have been thinking about today.
Whenever somebody bags out a company that has fucked them around, blatantly ripped off, stolen from, not delivered, dodgy work, etc etc etc, everybody always says don't do it, its illegal etc etc.
Which is fair enough.
But when people bag out brands, nobody cares.
If someone says "Don't buy brand X of muffler/brake pad/oil filter,tyre , everybody just agrees or says thankyou.
Nobody jumps up screaming thats illegal to say things like that.
So I ask you, what is the difference?
Is there one?
Discuss..
(sorry for the lamens terms, but I have a big mental blank at the moment)
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Fri, 09 July 2004 07:43
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I believe that freedom of speech is a wonderful thing and should be allowed anywhere, any place, anytime... Like I guess some of the words that are used to explain dodgy companies and stuff could be toned down a little or changed to something a little more appropriate...
But yeah, I think that we should be able to brag our sob stories about bad companies and dodgy deals and stuff...
But we should also remember the good companies and tell others about them too...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Fri, 09 July 2004 12:11
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Freedom of speech would be good, as long as it doesn't go so far that the media can say things as fact that just aren't true. Althought they do that now anyway.
But besides we don't have a constitutionally protected freedom of speech anyway.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Fri, 09 July 2004 15:17
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I was thinking about this the other day.
If you get ripped off,stuffed around or they did dodgy work etc then how is it defamation when you bag them out.As all you are doing is stating the FACT that they did whatever and are dodgy or whatnot.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Fri, 09 July 2004 15:55
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I think its more because its a character 'assaination' against people working within a company and is thus slander.
Not really the same for a simple tangible product.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Sat, 10 July 2004 01:10
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Shakra is correct in that we do not have a freedom of speech ruling as part of our constitution. What we do have is the rather large grey area of slander and defamation.
I personally feel that for a public forum to be brought into court would be a hard battle as the forum is open whoever is being spoken about has the means to reply on the same level as anyone else.
But like most things in the legal field, if you can afford a good lawyer you can get away with more - just ask John Laws!
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Location:
was adelaide now newcastle
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Sat, 10 July 2004 23:24
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usually it seems that people with bad experiences with a particular brand will say why they are not happy, which relates solely to their situation, however when a company is bagged out the reasoning is not as clear, eg.... brand "x" muffler is a piece of shite on my brand "y" model "z" car, Vs company "A" are a pack of goat blowers...........the reality is in most instances of unhappy customers, if they have a valid complaint a company/bussiness will try to remedy the situation, if not then there are legal avenues avaliable.
matty.
ps. i usually get really shitty about work im unhappy with, but give my self time to think and then reach a conclusion,(which is usually a lot less than what i felt like doing in the first place)
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Sun, 11 July 2004 00:44
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Alot of people employ people to do work for them and they think at that point that they need to take no further responsibility for the engagement. People sprout crap all the time about work that they had done and how dodgy mechanic X is, but they don't tell you how they ignored several key pieces of advice that mechanic X had given them.
I am all for freedom of speech.
I am MORE for people taking responsibilty and for people expending energy trying to resolve the complaint with the company/person that it involves.
Flaming on a public forum is just too easy and it solves nothing (it is part of the problem and not the solution).
Case in point - imagine smuggla writing a company off to a bunch of people who have had no work done there???
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Sun, 11 July 2004 01:54
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Let's all remember that a Bill of Rights that would have enshrined some of these things (right of expression or 'free speech') in law was tabled in federal parliament - but then voted down by politicians elected by people like you and me...
At present, most laws relating to freedom of expression define areas and methods where expression is NOT permitted. They're effectively laws of prohibition not facilitation - an important distinction.
Before we can make the big leap into a society with protection of expression, i think we have to prove that we can manage that responsibility.
i dont think we do - we still have pollicitians and radio dicks like alan jones, john laws, stan Z, etc who are able and quite willing to sprout all kinds of villification and slander without a care for the truth).
my 2c anyway...
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Sun, 11 July 2004 10:24
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it all comes down to !
if you bag them or defame them and you are wrong you can do damage that can never be repaired e.g when a paper has a front page saying someone did something and its wrong they put the retract on page 100 and in small writing no one will see the small writing so the damage is always going to be there! or if someone owns a company and someone that works for them does crap work the company gets the blame, but the customer wont believe it was a stupid employee to them it is the company!
this is why the law takes the view, that its there to protect the innocent and convicting a felon is secondarie!
sorry for the typo's.
mick
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Freedom of Speech
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Sun, 11 July 2004 11:25
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a public internet forum can be taken in equal context as say, a printed flier. The words are spelt out clearly and there is no immediate discussion into an issue.
Freedom of speech is all well and good in a person to person verbal communication means, but when it is written down and visible to the whole population, it takes on another form.
As for bagging a product vs a service, i cannot answer there without being wrong.
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