| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Fri, 09 July 2004 14:15
|
 |
Ok guys I know most of you say go for a GZE computer or aftermarket but I'm attempting a turbo install on a stock 4AGE in an AE82 running the standard ECU, injectors etc 
I am going to double check tommorrow but I'm thinking my 4AGE is in fact a MAP sensored version.
So I'm thinking now if I upgrade the fuel pressure regulator this will supply more fuel (i.e. richer) at all conditions unless oxy sensor can reduce the duty cycle to reduce fuel delivery.
If I also put a bleed on the MAP sensor to allow for maximum boost of 5 psi this will cause it to run leaner as at full boost the MAP sensor will read max presssure value ( I.e atmospheric), this would cause it to run leaner for each intake manifold pressure.
I was hoping these two would level things out slightly but the larger FPR will allow for the extra fuel needed at boost.
Found this
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/perf/bleed-map.ht ml
Anyone had any experience with dodgy setups like this?
Thanks,
Ben
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Fri, 09 July 2004 15:17
|
|
did you realise that your stock computer reads only vacume.
this also means your map sensor only reads vacume
thus adding boost to the system makes both run out of calibration and most probably will either shut down or kill your engine.
there are reasons why people use those computers yours wont work.
ps. if it was an AFM then theres no real problems it can be done. MAP means do it poperly
|
|
|
Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Fri, 09 July 2004 22:45
|
|
|
Map sensor can/will read boost, not much thou.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Sat, 10 July 2004 00:13
|
|
The diode trick is to stop the MAP sensor shutting down the engine due to over boost protection. I'm going to ask Pulcino on these forums as he has done this.
I realise the map sensors only really read up to atmospheric which is vacuum so even if you put the diode in it will only run as rich as when you floor it without boost.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Sat, 10 July 2004 01:05
|
|
regardless of ECU or fuel pressure, your injectors will not be up to the job and you'll run lean under boost and kill the pistons & head and more.
Compare the data of these 4AGE injectors with the 4AGZE at the bottom - you simply can't push enough fuel thru the AGE models into the engine to suit boost.
Overriding boost protection will only increase the likelihood of engine damage and the amount you'll do... increasing fuel pressure won't be enough and all you'll do is run uber rich when not on boost.
fact: turbo engines demand more fuel than a NA system (on same engine) can supply.
...please reconsider what you're doing - at least get some bigger injectors.
4AGE dark grey
182cc/min
36.4 est Hp each
255 Fuel pressure (Kpa)
4AGE pink
200cc/min
40.0 est Hp each
290 Fuel pressure (Kpa)
4AGE blue
210cc/min
42.0 est Hp each
255 Fuel pressure (Kpa)
4AGE beige
210cc/min
42.6 est Hp each
255 Fuel pressure (Kpa)
4AGE green (and violet)
250cc/min
50.0 est Hp each
290 Fuel pressure (Kpa)
4AGZE red/orange
365cc/min
73.0 est Hp each
255 Fuel pressure (Kpa)
(data from Ausospeed article 0102) - if you want PDF of article, PM me off-list.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Sat, 10 July 2004 03:54
|
|
if it has been done before i guess it can be done again.
with the injectors just make sure you either get the same ohm rating OR get an appropriate resistor to suit.
my GZE didnt fire the injectors without the solenoid resistor in place so if yours has a similar resistor then all is good otherwise you will need to source a resistor too. around $50 from memory
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Povo turbo install and MAP sensor bleeding 4AGE
|
Sat, 10 July 2004 06:57
|
|
all the 4agXe injector are same impedance (2ohms) - they all need the resistor pack.
you could use resistor pack from any 4agXe engine bay.
Are you sure they're running the 4ag computer with boost? seeing as the fueling and spark tables will not have any compensation for boost (e.g. extra fueling, ignition retard) i'd say you're after an ECU that uses an AFM
Even if the MAP sensor is able to safely see boost, the ECU will have no way of safely dealing with that kind of data.
if you do use an NA ECU on a boosted engine, it might pay to have a quick dyno run to see howthe A/F mix is under boost.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
. According to that article the lowest grade injectors are good for 108kw (all I would be after) at that fuel rail pressure.