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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 08:18
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i think i might have too much volage running thru my coil/points ect
where should i check and what should the voltages be
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 11:33
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What makes you think the voltage is too high?
The voltage on the low-tension side should be ~12-14v, or ~8v if used with a resistor. The high-tension side should be ~20kv and above, but you don't really want to try checking that with a multimeter!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 11:44
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cause i keep having sparks jump from my coil tower to the terminals, even after 300m of elec wiring, just shoots thru it
btw, i have an 18RG points dizzy, with a ballast resistor and resisted plugs, and the rest is stock RT104 18RC
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 11:48
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 hell no, leave that poor old multimeter alone... besides more spark is better  ...
but if you are using a points dizzy then the points will burn alot and you would be changing them quite often.
anopther thing you could do is get the coil plug from the dizzy and put it to the chassis and check how far it jumps when cranking... from what iv found (not sure if good judgement) but should be able to hold it bout 1/2cm away and see the jump of spark... if you can hold it 2cm away and still see it then HELL YEAH you got high voltage
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 11:53
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 dude looks like your coils FARKED... but before we go there how do you mean spark jumping from tower to terminal? what do you mean by tower and which terminal?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 12:08
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Sounds like you have dodgy leads. Check their resistance with a multimeter.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sat, 17 July 2004 12:09
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Check that you have not only have a good contact set and condensor, but the internal terminals of your cap are clean, the rotor button is in good condition and the HT leads are all good.
Sparks down the side of the coil can be from a number of causes.
1) Your coil is dirty and cause tracking (sparks) along the dirt, Solution clean the coil.
2) There is excessively high resistance through the rotor/cap contact, leads etc resulting in the spark taking the path of least resistance (down the side of the coil), Solution, change damaged components.
3) Again excessively high resitance due to stuffed plugs/incorrect plugs, Solution put in new plugs.
4) As fade-e said, the coil tower has been cracked resulting in tracking, Solution change coil.
[Updated on: Sat, 17 July 2004 12:11]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sun, 18 July 2004 12:02
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new leads, new plugs, new cap and rotor, coil lead wouldnt fit so i re-used the old one, dont have spare coil
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sun, 18 July 2004 12:17
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this is going to be a stupid question and i know everyone is goona freak out BUT when the car is running and you hold the coil lead on the dizzy side do you get electricuted? what bout from the coil side?
if you get electricuted on dizzy side then probably lead, if from coil side then there is a leak somewhere there...
I KNOW GUYS THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE DOING BUT HEY GET OVER IT AND TRY.
alsom you can pretty much use any cylinder coil. so if your parents car has a cylinder coil then try it. if it still happens then it is ballast resistor
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sun, 18 July 2004 12:47
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I recommend NOT touching any of the high-tension leads while the engine is running. Common sense dictates that 20,000 volts isn't something you should be playing around with.
If you want to find out if the coil is firing there are far more sensible ways to do it. Just disconnect the lead from the distributor and hold it close to (but not touching) any metal part of the body, using a pair of pliers with insulated handles. Crank the engine and you should see nice fat sparks jumping across the gap - that means your coil is working, and no-one had to get electrocuted!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sun, 18 July 2004 13:11
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hey norbie i mentioned that in my earlier reply. im saying to hold lead to see for leaks and i DID say that it is something you shouldnt be doing but electro therapy isnt bad 
nah its not funny as it can be harmful to you but it still is something to try... at the end of the day go to an auto electrician and get them to check if you dont know what else to check
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ignition system volages
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Sun, 18 July 2004 14:04
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I assume you are running the correct point gap and plug gap. Excessive plug gap also increases system resistance.
Coils dont often stuff up (compared with other ignition components). You should be able to physically inspect the tower of the coil for any cracks (with the engine off ).
Sounds like the coil-to-dissy lead might be a problem. The lead can have an internal breakage. 9 times out of 10 the electricity will jump the internal break, the other 1 time the electricity will discharge down the side of the coil tower.
As Norbie said earlier, pull the lead off and compare the resistance of the lead to the other new leads. At least then you can eliminate it as being the problem.
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Registered:
May 2004
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Re: ignition system voltages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 06:39
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electrocution means you die
not get shocked
do you not know that the voltage in a car ignition can cause yor hand and other muscles to clamp onto ANY object
like the live wire
and YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO LET GO NO MATTER WUT YOU TRY !!!
yor skin normally caries this kind of voltage and you can feel it in the right atmospheric conditions
it's wut fries electronics and killed the NASA engineers that led to inventing static free plastic for electronics
never ever mess with electricity
household voltage can VERY easily kill you
all you haf to be is wet
car voltage is 20+ times as much
never touch the high voltage wires with the thick insulation while the ignition is on
clean or replace yor coil
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: ignition system voltages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 08:26
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| toynado wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 14:39 |
electrocution means you die
not get shocked
do you not know that the voltage in a car ignition can cause yor hand and other muscles to clamp onto ANY object
like the live wire
and YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO LET GO NO MATTER WUT YOU TRY !!!
yor skin normally caries this kind of voltage and you can feel it in the right atmospheric conditions
it's wut fries electronics and killed the NASA engineers that led to inventing static free plastic for electronics
never ever mess with electricity
household voltage can VERY easily kill you
all you haf to be is wet
car voltage is 20+ times as much
never touch the high voltage wires with the thick insulation while the ignition is on
clean or replace yor coil
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Dude, its current that kills, not voltage.
And the current levels at idl/sub 2k rpm are harmless.
They give a bit of a kick, and leave your hand tingling for a few mins, but they wont kill.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ignition system voltages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 08:33
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| CrUZsida wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 18:26 |
| toynado wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 14:39 |
electrocution means you die
not get shocked
do you not know that the voltage in a car ignition can cause yor hand and other muscles to clamp onto ANY object
like the live wire
and YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO LET GO NO MATTER WUT YOU TRY !!!
yor skin normally caries this kind of voltage and you can feel it in the right atmospheric conditions
it's wut fries electronics and killed the NASA engineers that led to inventing static free plastic for electronics
never ever mess with electricity
household voltage can VERY easily kill you
all you haf to be is wet
car voltage is 20+ times as much
never touch the high voltage wires with the thick insulation while the ignition is on
clean or replace yor coil
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Dude, its current that kills, not voltage.
And the current levels at idl/sub 2k rpm are harmless.
They give a bit of a kick, and leave your hand tingling for a few mins, but they wont kill.
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Your wrong on that one. It only takes 1 volt to put your heart beat out to cause a heart attack. You just have to get the shock on the right part of your heart cycle and your dead.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: ignition system voltages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 08:38
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| Cool1 wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 16:33 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 18:26 |
| toynado wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 14:39 |
electrocution means you die
not get shocked
do you not know that the voltage in a car ignition can cause yor hand and other muscles to clamp onto ANY object
like the live wire
and YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO LET GO NO MATTER WUT YOU TRY !!!
yor skin normally caries this kind of voltage and you can feel it in the right atmospheric conditions
it's wut fries electronics and killed the NASA engineers that led to inventing static free plastic for electronics
never ever mess with electricity
household voltage can VERY easily kill you
all you haf to be is wet
car voltage is 20+ times as much
never touch the high voltage wires with the thick insulation while the ignition is on
clean or replace yor coil
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Dude, its current that kills, not voltage.
And the current levels at idl/sub 2k rpm are harmless.
They give a bit of a kick, and leave your hand tingling for a few mins, but they wont kill.
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Your wrong on that one. It only takes 1 volt to put your heart beat out to cause a heart attack. You just have to get the shock on the right part of your heart cycle and your dead.
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Actually it only takes between 10-20mA to upset the rhythm of your heart, and then from about 20mA to 1A its not as fatal, and from 1A up its deadly again.
At least thats what I have been told on numerous occasions from numerous lectures.
But hey, maybe they were all getting it from the same source
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 08:43
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When you put the rhythm of your heart out it stays out. This is what causes the heart attack.
This is not the same as going for a long run which makes your heart beat quickly.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 09:03
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it is current that kills...
but guys like i said technically your not supposed to do what i said but it IS something you can try if you want/willing...
i use the back of my hand cause when you get shocked your hand clamps in and if you use the palm/front of your hand then YES it will grasp the lead and hold on causing more harm but the back will clamp away and off...
i dont make a habit of doing it but when all else fails at the moment of problem then ill do anything to try and find the problem... thats just me and no one has to copy me or follow suite... iv mentioned something i do and also advised of the consequences and that it SHOULDNT be done but hey we dont ALWAYS do the right thing in the right way... you use what you have at hand
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 11:05
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ACTUALLY, u have all gotten off the topic
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 11:22
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last time (since no-one else mentioned it) you need only a small current to stop the heart, but you need a much larger voltage to get this current INTO the heart, in the first place.. 20-30kV should do it nicely 
as for your leaky coil...
check your plug gaps... bigger they are, bigger the resistance is. if they are NGK's, did it have 11 or 12 at the end? or are they 0.8 std gap?
next swap the coil/dizzy lead with a borrowed one if need be.
next CLEAN the coil, and anywhere else you see stray sparks.. oil and spark (heat) creates conductive carbon further increasing stray sparks..
after that, could be a problem coil... it's not a 'high power' coil is it?
coils do die.. i have a few dead ones.. that usualyl happens when you are furthest from home, or it's early in the morning and everythings closed...
if all else fails, borrow a coil to try...
good luck,
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 11:25
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i should also add, with typical spark voltages, you'd expect spark to jump an "air gap" of 20-30mm...
if you see the spark tracking a larger distance over a surface than this, the surface is conductive and allowing the spark to travel over the surface.
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 11:51
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Mr DOHC: You might remember that I posted about my similar problem a while ago. Anyway, got my problem almost eliminated. What I did was I changed coil HT wire to low impedance one. It's copper wire and ohms were around 2.6 . Ignition leads are normal high(?) impedance ones.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 12:39
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One of the reasons that manufacturers use silicon impregrenated with carbon for ignition leads is to reduce the EM (electromagentic) interference created by copper leads. Copper leads where original equipment on early vehicles.
Provided you have a decent suppressor on your stereo you shouldnt pick up any interference using copper leads. I originally had all copper leads but had problems on cool, moist mornings with the leads arcing between each other, so I went back to 'normal' leads and have had no problems since.
Another thing when using copper leads, dont bring your multimeter near them. The EM off mine would f%^k with the multimeter as soon as I bought it near the engine bay to measure anything.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 12:59
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yeah iv seen those multimeters go a bit crazy... you could use copper wires if you wanted but would be changing sparkies quite often... also the static could even interfere with TVs and stuff... i had to use copper wire once cause my coil lead stuffed up and it was funny... man the car screamed though as no resistance to sprakies...
Mr DOHC like i said, get your parents car coil and try it... takes 10min all up to test
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Mon, 19 July 2004 14:21
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I was aware of EM interference but I gave it a try and I havent noticed any interference yet...
...and my multimeter didnt go grazy  .
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ignition system volages
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Tue, 20 July 2004 11:37
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i stole a coil from work, a TM carby trade in POS, and its FULLY FIXED  ,
cept that i have a small missfire, wasnt there b4, all the magnas have elec dizzy, not, points, could that be a problem
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ignition system volages
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Tue, 20 July 2004 12:49
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It will lower the voltage to the plugs when used with a ballast resistor.
I dont recommend using it with out the ballast resistor either, it will quickly burn the contact set face.
Electronic dissys dont use a ballast resistor and hence the coils are wound slightly differently (different number of turns).
The ignition coil you have receives 12V during winding over (power from the starter circuit) and 8V once running (power through the ballast resistor).
You are better off just buying a new coil that is suitable for your ignition system (use with resistor). They cost the grand sum of about $30-$40 new...
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