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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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4AGTE fueling
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Tue, 20 July 2004 00:35
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hello there,
i will soon to be running a 4AGTE turbo setup, running about 10psi. this engine swap is into an ae86 with carby lines.
i was just wondering what is a good, reliable way to fuel the motor?
i was thinking about using 9 or 10mm copper lines, but what about the actual pumps/surge tanks etc? i dont know that much about fuel systems, little help please?
thanks
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Tue, 20 July 2004 01:26
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not sure about lines mate but iam using a walbro fuel pump in my 4agte its in a rolla front wheel drive works well for me.
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Location:
North Brisbane
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Tue, 20 July 2004 10:09
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hey mate,
surge tank is a must have, about 2-3Litre is good size
you can also use two normal vl commo fuel pumps side by side or one single vl turbo pump. then you should look into fuel pressure regulators and good computers
cheers dale...
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Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Tue, 20 July 2004 10:17
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This has come up a bit before. Apparently the stock AE86 lines are fine for 200+rwkw. I can vouch that they work fine for 110rwkw. Don't worry about them.
And yes, sort out a surge tank and properly sized pumps.
Hen
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Tue, 20 July 2004 11:04
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Surge tank is not necessarily a must have, Rex had trouble finding a place to put one under the car. So he opted to cut open the tank and weld in some baffles/swirl pot.
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Tue, 20 July 2004 22:40
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stock VL pumps and VL turbo pumps are identical...
stock 5/16 lines with a single vl turbo pump will be fine till about 220hp at the wheels then i would upgrade to 2xVL pumps and a 3/8 feed,
Dale
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 03:41
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so go with a vl pump+surge tank?
what modifications are needed to fit the vl pump, and is this the same pump as an R33 skyline pump?
with the surge tank, dont you need a lift pump from the actual tank, then a pump from the surge tank to the lines? (i know nothing about fueling)
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 03:44
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yes you will need a surge tank, you will fit one under the car with a little thought,
just get a cheap facet pump from repco or similer for the lift pump, they are about $50 brand new,
no vl pumps are not the same as skyline, skyline pumps are intank and vl are external,
you can buy a VL pump new for $200 (400hp) or a bosch 910 for $240 (500hp)
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 03:50
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oh i see,
so i need an external pump (VL)
then fit the surge tank under the car. (have i seen surge tanks in the boot of road cars, or is that something different?)
get a 'facet'(?) pump from repco.
do i need any modifications to the tank to fit the facet pump?
thanks for your help man, pretty slow on this issue. 
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 03:56
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you may have seen some in the boots, yours being a sprinter as long as it still has the back seat you can fit it in your boot, this makes putting it in a lot eaiser,
no mods to the fuel tank facet pump goes on the orignal feed to the engine.
Dale
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 04:37
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You can avoid all of this mess my modifying your tank to accept an in-tank high-pressure pump. Once again do a search, this exact topic was discussed at length quite recently!
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 04:39
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by the time he pays someone to mod his fuel tank and buys a decient intake pump it will cost more than a good surge tank setup that will support 500hp,
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 04:47
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Costs are similar but it's a much neater solution, and you don't have to find somewhere to mount the surge tank and two external pumps (remembering you're not allowed to put any fuel system components inside the car).
But hey it's not my car, what do I care... I'm just presenting other options.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 04:56
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yes its now illegal to have any fuel systems within the cabin of the car. They MUST be external.
In a hatchie - i would be opting for internal baffles and pump. Neater, factory and no fear of pumps FALLING OFF.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 06:36
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if you run a lift pump, you need to work out how you will prevent the surge tank from running dry (ie does fuel rail return to surge tank or fuel tank)
a facet pump will not provide as much flow as the VL pump, so maunting them in a serial fashion is not a good idea.
internal surgepot is a much better solution, and will be more than adequate for your needs.
the Walbro pumps are tiny, but provide high flow (around 150 or 210L/hr at 40Psi) and 'high pressure versions are also available.
the Walbros can be had for under $100 new if you look around.
talk to your engineer (i assume you have an engineer for a 4AGT conversion) abotu the legality and desirability of surge pots under car or in engine bay...
the idea is to minimise the possibility of fuel leakage, under normal conditions and in a crash.
Cya,. Stewart
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 07:01
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ive had my 4agte sprinter on the road for a few weeks now with no probs...didnt have to change lines or fit a surge tank...only thing i did was upgrade to a larger capacity bosch fuel pump and it hasnt missed a beat
i wouldnt think a surge tank would be necessary unless your looking at doing some track work or want serious hp
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 07:44
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i just like the idea of being able to empty out my fuel tank.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 11:11
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im nearly finished my gte setup, i have used the stock lines which will absolutely cope. surge tank is not necessary i didnt use it with my gze but i am now, and its mounted in the boot which i know is illegal but i dont care cause nothing else in my car is  im using a low pressure carby pump feeding the surge tank and a VL pump to the rail. VL and VL turbo pumps are the same as mentioned, ppl just like to say they got a VL turbo pump cause their either tossers or dont know WTF they are on about.  my lift pump is near the tank outlets and my VL pump is in the boot. so its gonna be smelly AND noisy
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 13:41
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smelly and noisy hey.......sounds like my 4AC now! 
i would like to use a setup without the surge tank etc, but if i have to i will. nothing on the car is going to be legal like EVOsti said im looking for a reliable setup aswell. the surge tank setup sounds good. i'll have a talk to my mechanic soon about the idea.
what oldcorollas is saying sound true. in theory you would need a lift pump with the same flow as the actual pump to stop draining the tank. if i used the surge tank setup, there wouldn't be much stink in the car right?
so the stock carby lines will support high pressure? i just dont want any splitty splitty when im drifty drifty!
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Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 17:43
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NO, the stock carby lines will not support high pressure. You must replace all rubber between the high pressure pump and the fuel pressure regulator with EFI stuff. But the stock metal parts will cope up to big pressure, and flow enough for big hp.
Hen
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGTE fueling
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Wed, 21 July 2004 22:10
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regarding the flow of a surge tank to return to the fuel pump, there is one easy way to resolve this.
You have 4 fittings/outlets on your surge tank. 2 in, 2 out.
1-2 fittings at the base
2-3 fittings at the top.
Basically here is what happens:
# Fuel goes out of fuel tank, thru a carby filter, into lift pump.
# Lift pump feeds into top of surge tank
# Base of surge tank gravity feeds HP fuel pump (big outlets)
# HP pump feeds thru an EFI fuel pump into the fuel rail
# Fuel pressure regulator feeds back into surge tank
# Highest point (overflow point) outlet on surge tank returns to fuel tank.
That way, surge tank is always full, and any excess goes back to your fuel tank.
Here is a link to my questions on this topic. Yes, i used a SEARCH
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&g oto=163851&rid=883&S=3d10242a8423432271fb9 725e2fc682b
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