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Grant
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Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Tue, 20 July 2004 21:59 Go to next message
Guys/ Girls,

We are currently looking at 2 options for next years event and need of some feedback before we make a final decision.

Option 1: Back at Dubbo with the same format as last year; show and shine (but with new, bigger area closer to town) and drags on sunday, OR

Option 2: Move the event to Tamworth where we can do show and shine, go-to-whoe and grass events/motorkhana but no drags.

At this stage cost for both would be about the same. Personally we like the Tamworth option but would like to hear your comments.


Grant
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dcving
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tamworth, sounds good, adds a bit of variety to the sunday with two or three different events.

yep i vote tamworth Cool
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ae86trueno
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i vote Tamworth too,
more fun for me Very Happy

Ben.
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3t-RA40
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I heard some of the guys at dubbo this year talk about a race track at tamworth, is this true? If so any possibility of some laps around the track, or some section of corners for drifting/time trial type arrangement.
Neil.
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Grant
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah, they sometimes use a big go-kart track for drifting. Unfortunately our insurance won't cover any form of circuit racing or drift event.
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Special Ed
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 04:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi Guys,

I have been negotiating with the Tamworth Sporting Car Club Re: hosting the Nats there in 2005.

It is unfortunate that our own insurance will not cover a circuit sprint as the track is just big enough to be heaps of fun while not being so fast as to be daunting to less experienced drivers. It would make for an unreal competition.

Any go to whoa would be held on the main straight of the circuit.

I am told a proper burnout pad may be installed by Easter too !!!!

A cicuit sprint for the sunday could be organised but the cost could make it less attractive to some.

For a day of circuits (approx 40 cars max) each would get a minimum of 5 x 4 lap sessions with a top ten at the end of the day. Drift or speed - style would be up to the driver. official drift events will only be sanctioned by CAMS on A or B class tracks (read: eastern creek oran park etc.).

A day like this would cost about $140.

Thoughts ?


Matt
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 04:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The main thing I don't like about that is Bathurst isn't on the way Razz

The drags is always good fun as well though and seeing as we are driving over, we'd have to weigh it up how much fun each of them would be, seeing as the drags is good for "grudge matches".

I'll have a think about it and get back to you.

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CrUZsida
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Either way for me.
I gotta come 4000+kms so whats a few more...
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ke382TG
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,

I am planning to go to my first Toyota Nationals in '05. I like the sound of the Tamworth set up. The variety of events should appeal to lots of people.

Drags are great but a few different types of events to test driver skill and car setup/performance would be excellent fun.

Looking forward to whatever is decided.

Cheers.
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THE WITZL
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm definitely a fan of the Tamworth option, Motorkhana and go-to-whoa are definitely awesome events.

Drags would still be cool, but i think those who are really interested would probably all come down to Eastern Creek or their local equivalent straight after the Nats still with the bug of racing.


THe motorkhana levels out the paying feild for those with smaller powered cars, which i like Wink
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Rolla Boy
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Double Post...

[Updated on: Wed, 21 July 2004 07:50]

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Rolla Boy
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tamworth sounds awesome!!!

"Tamworth, cha cha cha, tamworth cha cha cha!!!"

How far is it from Sydney???
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YelloRolla
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IF we can't run circuit at Tamworth - then I have to say Dubbo (circuit was the main attraction that Tamworth offered IMO).

Why don't we have the Nats in Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne where we can go racing (1/4m)?

Is booking out WSID and inviting another car club to join us a possibilty?

I like drags (and X dressing but that's another story) because it is where my car is most competitive and it would be a shame to not have drag racing as part of the events, not just for myself, but also for the women who all seemed to have a blast racing at Nats 04.

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BlackSupra
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
4-5hrs drive

tamworth is sweet with me, as long as the grass events arent held in dust bowls with massive rocks everywhere!

HMMM putty road......
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oh yeah, forgot about the women, I promised my gf a run at the drags too.
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BlackSupra
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haha surely your not bringing steph!
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Haha, yes, we is driving all the way across just so she can pay out on you in person.
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HSV_gal
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I VOTE TAMWORTH.....
Then when I have enough of you guys I can go home to my Mum Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
Nah only kidding,,, Since I won't be competing again I guess it is up to Rod where he want to go.... Providing the Celica is ready by then.
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Special Ed
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
There is no confirmed venue for dirt/grass events in Tamworth.

Events such as these have been hosted there before, but I have not explored this posibillity with the local authorities.

And as i said Circuit is always an option there, it is just a matter of cost. We will have to run a CAMS sanctioned event under the guise of TSCC. this will cost a minimum of $135 each.

Drags will be an option in Tamworth in 2006 (1/8th mile) on a brand new track.

A burnout pad is a definate possibillity for 2005.


What do people this is a reasonable cost for a weekend of motorsport ?






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Siktoy ra23
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I would have to agree with yellorolla WSID or WILLOWBANK is a much better idea, I personaly wont be going in any events unless its DRAG RACING, I would preffer to drive to willowbank than dubbo or tamworth.
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THE WITZL
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i think Jason has a good idea there, re. holding a special drag racing day for us clowns only.
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river
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,

Doesn't bother me where it is, 'cos I've never been to the Nationals before and would like to go to the next one.

Unlike you youngbloods, I dont wanna fang my car around a track or slide it in dirt or grass. I just wanna suck some beer and wine and pass out in the car, and watch all the tomfoolery.

Can I do that? Or, is the Nationals basically a revhead paradise and not suited for us more genteel folk?

I could always bring my guitar and sing some sad and ornery country & western songs. Smile

seeyuzz
river
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V8_MA61
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dubbo.
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RAV-GT4
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Considering I've never been to a ToyNationals before, I'm a bit either-way about it. I don't mind driving in either direction, but I'm more open to a drag event than a circuit or a drift. Motorkhana and go-to-whoa would be fun though... Surprised

Personally I favour Dubbo because the Toyota Nationals is already accepted up there, whereas Tamworth in like unchartered Toyota Nationals territory if you know what I mean. Again I've never been to this event before, but I'd prefer a tried-and-tested event location. Very Happy
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Rolla Boy
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew, Tamworth isn't uncharted territory...

Matt goes there often to participate in drift weekends and as far as he tells me, it's all well and good up there...

There will always be the bogans but you get them in Dubbo aswell...
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Special Ed
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dubbo has been tried and tested - and found wanting.

The organisers want to keep an open mind re: the venue so as to keep the event fresh and as good as it can be. To go to Dubbo purely because it has always been there is a sure reciepe for disaster.

Keep an open mind and rest assured - lots of work goes in to the consideration of venue. The event will not move unless it will improve the "Nats" experience for the majority.

Matt


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thechuckster
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if no drags at tamworth, what about a dyno king/queen comp? a least it might let some of the hiHP cars flex some muscle?

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RAV-GT4
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not that I'd want to go to the Nat's with the sole intention of drag-racing, I'd like to see what it's all about. Sure there's pics and stories of past events, but I want to experience it first-hand, and for me, drag-racing was part of the event. I didn't know Tamworth had already been tried - I'm new to this remember. Smile

If drags aren't a possibility, I guess I'd do the Dyno run instead. Confused
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Wed, 21 July 2004 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not having been to either, but wishing I had, I'm disappointed that some sort of cct work couldn't be organised in some way.

I'd vote for a go/whoa and motorkhana before drags, so it looks like Tamworth is a goer.

How much further for those that are coming from down south is Tamworth compared to Dubbo ?

Cheers

Michael B
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rob_RA40
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 03:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hope this isnt too out of left field.

- perhaps reschedule for a non-double demerit weekend.
- considered any other tracks if not too expensive? wakefield?

if a circuit for example allows drags on the main straight, then u could hold events that suit the drag cars and the track cars. Possibly aslo added bonus would be a skidpan type event (if the track has the facilities. Of course price is a big issue.

combining this on a non-D-demerit garden variety weekend would mean
the track might not be in high demand and offer fair prices.

i say this without any knowledge or insurance costs and other details so please just take this as a suggested avenue of research.

otherwise listing a costs breakdown for 2004 nats would be helpful in offering suggestions.
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Special Ed
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The cost of circuit is not related to the cost of hiring ht track. It is small club and besides a fairly reasonable fee the bulk of the revenue they would collect would come from holding BBq's and canteen facilities for us at the venue.

The main cost is insurance related and the need for CAMS licenses in order to compete in this style event.

The actual date has no bearing on the cost for the event.

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SupraPete
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 05:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think Tamworth would be good, but I think there would need something for the high HP cars. Track would be awesome (I'd pay the $140 Matt), drags are great fun, dyno would be good too.


I'd love to do it in Goulburn and have a track day at wakefield, etc. And there would be a lot more people turn up from Sydney and Canberra - yes I realise less from Brisbane but total numbers would be higher.


Bottom line, I'm happy with whatever is organised. As long as no-one stopps me from drinking my blue stuff.
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Grant
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 06:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Drags are a relatively new event for the Nationals. Prior to 2003 there was only GTW and motorkhana. Both these events were short lived anyway as changes to insurance made running such events impossible for a relatively small event like the Toyota Nationals. That's the reason the event was actually cancelled in 2002.

Dubbo has served the Nationals well for over 25 years but my feeling is that just one driving event is limiting particularly as it excludes mostly anything but hi-performance cars. The Nationals was formed to allow all Toyota enthusiasts to meet and compete no matter what type of car you had. With drags as the only event, I fear the essence of the Toyota Nationals may be lost. In addition, Toyota Australia are not going to continue supporting an event that is focused on hi-performance or modified cars. Without their support the event just wouldn't be viable.

The Tamworth facility is a proper motorsport complex where we can do both events on the same day and maybe even burnouts. The complex is 10 minutes from town and will be run by members of the Tamworth Car Club who know what they are doing. It also has dedicated canteen and toilet facilities. Tamworth itself has a huge choice of accommodation and venues and there is even a good possibility of securing a large undercover area for the show and shine.

Another advantage is that the road is so much better being a major highway. Also, if the Tamworth clubs do build a Grade A drag track then there are options for Saturday afternoon or even possibly night drags in 2006.

All the specifics haven't been worked out yet but we plan to trip up there to see all this for ourselves in the next few weeks. By the end of August we should make a decision.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 July 2004 06:23]

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3t-RA40
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Grant/Matt do you recall what the cost per competitor was for the drags last year including the licence? I think it was about $60-70 for the day. If I had a choice between that 1/8 mile track and going around a proper circut I'd pay the extra.

I think any thing that is done to try and improvement the event is a good idea.What I see against dubbo is only show'n'shine and 1/8 mile drag racing. I think most people would rather 1/4 mile drag racing but having said that any racing would be good as most of us have cars for go and a little show.

More driving events is obviously a good idea to give everyone a go at what they think there strength is, whether it be a modified or fairly standard car, but more people would be need to help organize so this could be an issue with only limited resources.

If moving to Tamworth in '05 sets us up better for the future of the event then lets do it.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 July 2004 06:59]

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BlackSupra
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Just going to throw something out there....

Everyone talks of high HP cars being the only ones that enter.

How about a scoring system similar to that at summernats, whereby competing in a number of different events to earn points.

- driver skill
- asthetics
- performance

Thus corollas with hipo engines won't always dominate the precedings, and barge ass MA70's will have a harder time on the motorkana........and corolla are in with a chance on the bodykit front. Razz
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlackSupra wrote on Thu, 22 July 2004 17:56

And corolla are in with a chance on the bodykit front.


Sweet action!!! I can win this Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy ...


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V8_MA61
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dubbo drags strip is now over 1/4 Mile! It is being enlarged now.

So disregard the comment about 1/8 mile not being enough!
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celicamad
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dubbo is NOT going to be 1/4 mile . the strip is being extended to allow for larger aircraft.And a NEW 1/8th mile surface

if we go to Dubbo next year it will be 1/8th mile on the new surface in the opposite direction

i spoke to the Dubbo City Car Club president Today . and he confirmed this

as far as WSID goes we are considering a drag day . on a seperate weekend .
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V8_MA61
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thats not what i was told Confused They said they were extending it to make it about 1/2 mile long

BTW: i was only in wellingion 3 weeks ago when i was informed this for the 2nd time Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Thu, 22 July 2004 10:02]

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celicamad
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yes the dragstrip is being extended . to run 1/4 mile...NO!!!
to allow more cars to run ....and bigger planes to land ....it is an airstrip
Quote:

spoke to the Dubbo City Car Club president Today . and he confirmed this


ummm ill take the word of the club President and ANDRA official

We (the toyota Natinals co-ordinators)have had several discussions with Dubbo City Car Club about the possability of a 1/4 mile track at dubbo .
It is VERY unlikley in the next few years

also Special ed is now offially a Toyota Nationals event co-ordiantor (just for point of interest) thanks for all your help MATT..oh and his car is still oficially slower than mine Razz

[Updated on: Thu, 22 July 2004 10:27]

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Alchemist
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmmmmmm I must say I wouldn't mind the drags, but then I would be happy with any event that lets me do some driving, look at some other nice toyotas and just have a fun weekend. Either I say...but the vote does seem to be tending the Tamworth way...
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Thu, 22 July 2004 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The motorkharna event is gunna be awesome fellas... Hopefully be at Tamworth and watch the fun...
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Fri, 23 July 2004 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorry for being a little off topic, but is there any thing organised in newcastle for the dyno day and show and shine, as was suggested at the nationals Smile
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celicamad
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Fri, 23 July 2004 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yes very soon we will psot details ASAP
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Jag7799
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Fri, 23 July 2004 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i like the willowbank idea Smile
lets hire it out hehe
that way i dont have to drive heaps Smile
othr than that.. id rather dubbo
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TheStitt
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Fri, 23 July 2004 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm with river and a few other people

03 and 04 Nats where fantastic, an awsome time to get on the turps with the fellow car club people that you can't normally cause we all drive. The events are always good.

I'm keen for drags but other diving events sound good, just don't know how I'll go in a motorkana with the old bus being 5 turns lock to lock, but the LSD should help brig it around.

I'll go anywhere to support the nats, its great time to meet and great, events are just the off side of getting together, where eva we go i'll compete in evey event, and I'll still be quite drunk every night, hey I might even bring my guitar next year.

See you all in 05

Luke TheStitt
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EMP-2TG
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sat, 24 July 2004 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tamworth Tamworth Tamworth Cool
im all for some driving events that need brakes and handling over raw power
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M.J.H
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sat, 24 July 2004 06:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EMP-2TG wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 15:11

Tamworth Tamworth Tamworth Cool
im all for some driving events that need brakes and handling over raw power

What he said. Cool

I like thwe sound of Tamworth as well.Price doesn't really matter to me as that numbers are pretty much in line with other events.Do the supersprint and you won't be complaining bout the cost at the end of the day,just what you need to spend to make the car faster. Laughing
4 laps a go and 5 runs to get a good time is not bad either.
Although would the poeple who already have a cams licence get the entry a bit cheaper or not?Just wondering.
Also showers and camping at the track for those that are interested.
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Classique71
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sat, 24 July 2004 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
+ for the events being held for tamworth

- for the distance extra to get here from down this way Sad



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Miss 22
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sat, 24 July 2004 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
definatly dubbo....whats the point if there is no drags....???in my oppinion anyways
mel
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sat, 24 July 2004 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
we missed out on it this year

should be there next year Cool
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MR 1JZ
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sun, 25 July 2004 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i have never been to the Toyota Nationals but i would defintiely like to be there next any chance of some info on when it would be and from reading your posts then Dubbo sounds good becuase it has drags
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TheStitt
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Sun, 25 July 2004 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nats will be and should be on the easter long week end.


Driving events sound gun, however drags are cool to. I'll just go where eva. I'll support the event and just catch up with ppl
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BlackSupra
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Mon, 26 July 2004 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mel........will you even have a car to drag Razz

Im easy (don't tell stitt that, he might get excited) either way is fine with me, motorkana would possiblybe more challenging, but i think we still need to focus on the off time events as well.

Is there any motels in tamworth that will get the same 'atmos' that the matilda had, everyone parked so close and able to chat, drink, gloat in a nice confined area.
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THE WITZL
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Mon, 26 July 2004 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lets do a recon road trip and find out!!!
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wagonist
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Mon, 26 July 2004 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
My 2c:

If we can more events that allow more cars to compete, then I reckon Tamworth.

Drags are fine, but most cities now are running the off street drags regualrly, so they are a lot easier to get a run at than a motorkhana, go-to-whoa, etc. Plus imagine the laughs I'd get trying to enter a turbo diesel into a normal motorkhana Embarassed

I think our newer kitted cars would also be more accepted at Tamworth. Despite the country music festival there, its got more a of a city feel than Dubbo.

For those of your from down south, it'd be about another 3 hours.
And you from Brisbane, its about 5 hours closer, so no excuses!!

I think there's a better chance of Tamworth getting a drag strip before Dubbo, so now would be a good time to build up again in anticipation.

Stitt, what do you need steering lock for:
bulk torque + RWD + no traction + handbrake = motorkhana fun!!

I'm definitely after some off-road steering fun after my last on road efforts Embarassed
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gianttomato
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Mon, 26 July 2004 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tamworth. Supersprint!

Has Wakefield been considered?
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Jag7799
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Mon, 26 July 2004 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wagonist wrote on Tue, 27 July 2004 03:07

My 2c:

If we can more events that allow more cars to compete, then I reckon Tamworth.

Drags are fine, but most cities now are running the off street drags regualrly, so they are a lot easier to get a run at than a motorkhana, go-to-whoa, etc. Plus imagine the laughs I'd get trying to enter a turbo diesel into a normal motorkhana Embarassed

I think our newer kitted cars would also be more accepted at Tamworth. Despite the country music festival there, its got more a of a city feel than Dubbo.

For those of your from down south, it'd be about another 3 hours.
And you from Brisbane, its about 5 hours closer, so no excuses!!

I think there's a better chance of Tamworth getting a drag strip before Dubbo, so now would be a good time to build up again in anticipation.

Stitt, what do you need steering lock for:
bulk torque + RWD + no traction + handbrake = motorkhana fun!!

I'm definitely after some off-road steering fun after my last on road efforts Embarassed



5 hrs closer?
lets go there then
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Grant
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Mon, 26 July 2004 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
For those who haven't been following the whole thread, Australian National Street Machine (our insurers) will only cover G-T-W, motorkhana and burnouts. They do not cover any form of circuit racing. This means that to hold a circuit/drift event at Tamworth (or anywhere else) a competitor would have to pay $70-80 for GTW, MK and maybe B/OUTS + another $140 just to do drifting. That price of $140 is also based on a minimum of 40 cars so I really can't see it being viable.

Other venues have been discussed at length and you can read about it on the thread "Toyota Nationals - Feedback for next year".

[Updated on: Mon, 26 July 2004 23:44]

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Jag7799
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Re: Toyota Nationals 2005 - options for next year Tue, 27 July 2004 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
thats a rourt
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