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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 11 September 2002 11:35
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Had an unfortunate incident on the weekend. I was driving my Supra MK2 with 1JZ engine and factory CT12A turbo's. Just recently fitted a large intercooler so it was going very hard that night. Max boost was 15psi like it has been for a long time. Anyway the box changed from 1st to 2nd and when it was in 2nd I accelerated. At this moment I heard a bang and then a loud whine and no boost.
I limped the car home and took the inlet piping off and found the front turbo was wrecked. The compressor wheel was hitting the housing and lost most of its fins. But the exhaust wheel was intact with no damage. Same with the rear. The compressor wheel had been hitting the housing and exhaust wheel intact.
Now what the hell could have happened? It's running the factory ECU and has twin dump pipes of each turbo. I know that the car was running rich from the black smoke. Could a backfire have caused the shafts to bend and the compressor wheels touch the housing?
Frank
www.1jzsupra.20m.com
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 11 September 2002 12:00
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Do you run an air filter? Any bits fall off it and get sucked into the compressor wheels?
The turbine wheels are the ones meant to fall off. Sounds strange. I haven't heard of the compressor wheels falling off because arent they welded/integral to the shaft?
Also, has your exhaust / twin downpipes any play in it? The exhaust is basically hanging off the turbo housings, and some blow to the piping may have placed some stress on both turbos, leading to movement of the turbine housings relative to the compressor housings, shearing off the compressor wheels at the shafts.
Anyway - it sounds like real bad luck though. My deepest sympathies 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 11 September 2002 12:13
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My guess is that with an easy exhaust, that much boost, big cooler and some hard driving you just overdid the poor old turbos - maybe it was a bit lean and the exhaust was getting too hot and cooked something? Also check the oil feed, did it run out of oil and kill the bearings?
Aargh werll, time to save for that GT35 now  
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Location:
Forrestfield, WA
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 11 September 2002 13:14
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Holy Cow!
Ive heard of CT12's throwing the exhaust turbine at high boost being ceramic and all.. but the compressor wheel??? Wow.. nice work :\
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 11 September 2002 21:22
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didn't think ct12's liked alot of boost......remember reading that somewhere..
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Location:
_Sydney _
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Sat, 14 September 2002 08:55
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 Sorry to hear that man, gives me a bit of a warning not to give my ct12's a bashing, when the mods come in. ouch man id be cryin if that happend to me right now.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Sun, 15 September 2002 04:23
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By the way Zorro, after reading my own reply, I forgot to check, are the compressor wheels bonded / welded to the shaft, or are they held on by a little nut? Did that fail?
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Sun, 15 September 2002 10:24
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Yeah, if it has a nut, that could have come loose. What a bummer! That's one reason why the 7mgte's are better. The ct26's are solid with non-ceramic turbines as well. You simply cant run the factory 1j turbos more than about 12psi reliably. Hope none of the metal fragments got stopped in your cooler too!
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Sun, 15 September 2002 22:19
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The bearing would have collapsed, taking pressure off the nut allowing it to undo.
So a collapsed bearing would have been the initial failure.
Were those Joey's old turbo's - they had an indescribably hard life !!
Matt
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Mon, 16 September 2002 09:45
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The nut on the compressor was loose and yes they were Joey's old ones!!!!!!!!
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 18 September 2002 10:03
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Looked at kits for ct12s to rebuild. the kit alone is $220 and then u need to have it balanced. Apparently there is a steel wheel conversion also with full circle bearings(for highest boost applications)that should come in to ballpark figures better than a new gt35.....
It would be nice to see someone that has done this conversion,There is also a soarer i saw at willowbank that had twin ct26,s ran ok pity about the auto..
There is a r31 skyline with an rb20 that has TWIN vl t3's with standard internals it makes 400hp (soon to appear in zoom)
t3's are a lot bigger than ct12's wonder when they stop flowing air(what hp) with these conversions........
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Location:
cronulla
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 18 September 2002 10:59
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ive heard that the highest CT 12's are supposed to handle well is 12 psi, unless of course as afforementioned you replace the ceramic wheelds (which seems to come highly recomended).
anyhu i have a set of spare ct 12's off a 1 JZ if you cant fix the old ones
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 18 September 2002 11:54
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the stock CT12As can handle high boost in the right circumstances - there's a 1J with stock CT12As in a Manual Soarer in SA that's pushing 258rwkw at 1.3 bar!
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Thu, 26 September 2002 01:28
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WHAAATTTT!!! he is pulling your dick .i run 1.3 bar twin pipes etc and make 208 KW@ wheels as does the other 10 or so 1js with same or better setup .Those ct12a's are NOT stock or the power figure is bullshit . a ported or high flowed CT12a WILL make that kind of power .
DO NOT RUN MORE THAN 15 PSI on stock turbos stock dump pipes .eventually they will die .THOSE turbos of Joeys had a LONG hard life on high boost before twin pipes where fitted .And then had a lot of K's put on them after that.
They where bought at the right price but unfortunatley died
HEAT kills these turbos not shaft speed
cant wait to see the Supra go with the new turbos it already made 208 kw@wheels with stock intercooler .Now big intercooler and new turbos mmmmmmmmmmm
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Thu, 26 September 2002 09:08
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hey franki got it going yet??? i'm with you on the thisone i go the backfire theory ...remember what auto 1j's do when shifting hard i think it maybe something to do with this...
guyz hpi's soara is pushing some decent numbers at the moment to the tune of about 225 at the wheels i think
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Thu, 26 September 2002 13:02
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Celicamad
Stay tuned for Martin Donnon's update of his Sin City Manual Soarer in HPI - Exhaust, Intake, Power FC, FMIC, 1.3 Bar, Cams was at the Adelaide ALSC meet and claiming 258rwkw on Tilbrook's dyno on stock CT12As.
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 01:30
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Martin Donnon and JRR Tolkein are of the saem literary philosophy.
258 rwkw my arse !
Matt
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 02:23
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258RWKW??? Makes me want to try to get that with CT12's and some better wriggle sticks.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 06:22
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258kw would be nice!!! i'd be stoked personally with 210-215kw at the wheels ... Would that be enough to push the cressi to mid 13's???
It's cool to know that 258 has been proven on stadard turbos though and to think they start with 206 at the fly pretty amazing
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 08:37
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Remember the gain is more than that:
258RWKw vs 206FWKw (if you believe the factory figures).
I'll believe it when I see it though (preferably on my own car).
Remember Donnon probably isn't running for reliability if he already had a HKS 3240 single turbo kit he already bought, ready to go in.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 10:39
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Guys
No one would be happier than I if it was possible.
I'm not going to pass judgement on his claims, I've been flamed enough already on the Soarer forums for being sceptical of his past claims. Blame it on the SA dynos!!
At least he's doing some local R&D on the 1J that we may all be able to benefit from.
I'll have to wait and see what config he shows up with to the ALSC Dyno Day in January.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 11:18
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guys i might put mine on the dyno to see what it does i think mine is as close to being a 1j virgin than anyones, completely dead stock standard at the moment...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 13:20
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mx83toy
Mine was pushing 134rwkw throught the R154 dead stock with 64000ks
I assume you're running a better than stock exhaust - exhaust change alone yielded 158rwkw on mine.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Fri, 27 September 2002 15:52
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I went to Dynamic Turbo's in Warabrook and they said they have never rebuilt one and weren't interested in even looking at one. Basically he said throw it out and get another pair. So 1jheaven, where do you get these rebuild kits?
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Sun, 29 September 2002 07:29
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The problem with Martin Donnan is on one hand he writes articles calling the stock turbos small and in-efficient .Then does a tech articles claming the turbos ar not capable of flowing more than about 220 KW(flywheel).
Zoom magazine have UNDERRATED 1jz's for years .NOW all of a sudden its a 245 RWKW(340 RWHP) monster
after claiming 254 RWKW he also claims 12.8 sec 1/4 mile times on a g tech meter which he also bagged saying it was difficult to get consistent times
So tell me this why does a 1520 KG Cressida do consistent 13.0 sec 1/4 mile times with only 274 RWHP, and a SLIGHTLY heavier soarer with 66 MORE RWHP does 12.8 ????????
Between 240 and 274 RWHP the Cressida dropped a full second
PUNCH THOSE POWER FIGURES INTO A 1/4 MILE CALCULATOR AND THE PREDICTED TIME FOR THE CRESSIDA (208 rwkw 13.07) .THE SOARER ADDING 150 KG IN WEIGHT SHOULD RUN 11.9
I'D bet my left one that car makes only 300 RWHP MAX WITH ALL THOSE MODS .
Its all been done before one of my mates Paul tried cams ,Adjustable cam wheels ,Autronic ECU ,custom Intercooler 18 psi boost etc potentially with better tuning that car could make 300 RWHP but 340..(258 RWKW)....bring out the KY JELLY
I AGREE THE DYNO FIGURES ARE BULLSHIT
Regarless of the claimed power the car still only ran 12.8
thats been done before on stock ecu 16 psi BOOST
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Sun, 29 September 2002 09:28
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Martin Donnon is 2 years behind in the 1j development front, he is doing nothing that wasn't tried in newcastle 3 years ago !!!
His claims have been proven impossible many times and long ago.
There has been local development of the 1j in motion for a long time now, done by friendly open and generous people who live less than 2 hours from most people on this forum.
But noone wants to listen !!
Be nice to our friend Celicamad, he might let you in on a few secrets !!!
Matt
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Mon, 30 September 2002 09:04
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nah manny i'm actually using the cressidas 7M original exhaust setup...it bolted straight on so yeah put the grand i was going to spend on the exhaust into my pocket for now...i've bought a high flow filter,bleed valve, and got the apexi S-AFC but yeah not worth putting any of these on without the exhaust system...
its really really quiet though spins people out when i put the foot down or pop the hood but unfortunately the exhaust must go for me to make some decent power hey?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Mon, 30 September 2002 09:17
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mx83toy - It doesn't have to be loud to be quick, I've got a 2.5 inch system from cat converter back. It is as quiet as a mouse (sort of!) and attracts no attention. I'm also running the stock cat, the exhaust guy said the cat was very restricted but he easily cut the back plate out to get a 2.5 inch system (with a resonator and Lukey Turbo muffler). Made a big difference and was far quieter than the "sports system" that came with the car. My car went through RTA inspection no worries (around 85 dB). The motor is a dead stock 1j.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Mon, 30 September 2002 13:50
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I agree - exhaust systems are a bit of a black art. You should "audition" similar motors with different exhaust systems and check out the noise. My 3' system was so loud that I took it back to get an extra resonator (total = 3' cat + hotdog + 18inch resonator like an N1 exhaust + fat straight thru muffler). I'm amazed at the Japanese product that seems far more refined (and it should be at the $$$ ) particularly Trust. Depending on your power aims, you could sacrifice a few Kw for everyday practicality.
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Mon, 07 October 2002 06:09
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Celicamad,i ran a 12.96 400m in my Soarer(exhaust/intercooler/14psi/injectors)and I dynoed recently at 217rear wheel kW.
I agree with you.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Mon, 07 October 2002 06:37
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hey blakeNZ i remember you mentioning you had put the injectors in.....are you using aftermarket comp??? what gains did you get from installing them??? oh and what size did you use??? side or top feed???
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Location:
Miami FL
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Stuffed 1Jz turbo's
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Wed, 11 December 2002 20:43
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So all U guys boosting your 1jz stockers are you telling me that if you run open downpipes and good gas the exhaust temps won't reach a temp. hot enough to melt the resin holding on the ceramic blades on?  That would be awesone info for a few friends that would be willing to test that theory. I was telling them anything over 12 is asking for trouble. LET ME KNOW!
Thanks
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