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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 06:09
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Hey does anyone know anything about getting injectors high flowed. as opposed to getting bigger injectors?
Cost/Benefit?
thanks.
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 06:59
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usually getting injectors highflowed is an overlooked idea.
it all depends on how much more fuel u need compared to the standard size injectors. if u only require something like 20 - 50% extra, it is an affordable option. as for exactly how much, im not exactly sure, but it is usually less than half the price of new ones. They are usually offered on an exchange basis, and have been fully rebuilt.
in esence, it is kinda like highflowing a turbo. great for that bit extra, but it is still only able to offer so much flow, but may be just wat ur after.
depending on how much u want to spend, and wat management u have, boosting ur fuel pressure to squirt more fuel out per millisecond that they are open is another idea. this makes the stock ones flow more.
hope this helps somewat.
search around for companies like powerflow injection ( unsure of details ), as they should be able to provide some concrete info.
[Updated on: Sat, 24 July 2004 06:59]
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 07:33
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to the best of my knowledge, theres NO SUCH THING as getting injectors "hi-flowed"...
sure, an injector place can clean, test bench, and give a FLOW MATCHED set, but do you really think they disassemble the solenoid and pintle, 'overbore' the port and seat, and install a new pintle? i dont think so.
well, not that ive EVER heard of anyway. maybe im wrong 
cranking up the fuel pressure (within reason) is an easy way of upping the rates, though a lot of aftermarket AFPR's seem to have unreliable stability compared to OEM (god knows how you could build a FPR badly).
either that, or go hunting through the injector databases, and find a car at the wreckers with big nasty injectors, and buy a set uber cheap... then clean them.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 10:07
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Indeed there are places that can take your injectors and modify them to flow more. Check out a magazine like Zoom, they sometimes advertise in there.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 10:39
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 20:07 |
Indeed there are places that can take your injectors and modify them to flow more. Check out a magazine like Zoom, they sometimes advertise in there.
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id be very keen to see exactly what they do to them...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 10:41
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Lemme have a look for ya, there was a thread on Performance Forums, someone was doing it there.
BTW, off subject but are you in Sydney yet?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 10:45
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only thing ive heard about is overhauling them...ie cleaning them beautiful and clean again
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 10:53
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Try PM'ing 6BOOST from the Performance Forums, he is the one who did it.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 10:58
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nope, ill fallback to statement #1...
ive just been doing a bit of reading, and it is as i thought: "hi-flowing" simply refers to 'achieveing the best possible flow' from a given injector, as well as consistency accross injectors - NOT increasing its flow to some new level of output. simply involves balancing and blueprinting the solenoids and shafts, cleaning pintles (or flaps) and seats, and installing new filters (which may be more or less restrictive than OEM). followed by bench test and flow matching. thats it. certainly nothing extraordinary... just means you can rely more heavily on achieving a standard inj output...
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:00
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 20:41 |
BTW, off subject but are you in Sydney yet?
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yep - and crap, just realised i havent sent you money: doing it now
damn drunken haze 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:06
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Well, I'll still contest statement one, because 6BOOST from PF was charging a turnaround service to modify factory injectors for more flow.
Thats all good, I just meant you slackass should be back on ICQ now you have no excuse 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:10
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yeah, they flow more cause theyre clean 
and if you can perhaps put in higher quality filters, and balance moving components, theyll probably work better than they did stock... simply cause youve introduced a higher level of quality control...
its akin to balancing and blueprinting a rebuilt engine. not essential, but certainly helps the engine achieve it's maximum output.
thats my 2c
though, i do humbly wait to be totally shot out of the sky 
PS - nathan: ill try and get that shifter stuff off to you this week too 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:15
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How much more are they going to flow? We aren't talking just living up to their factory rating. For example, he makes mention of transactions where he takes a stock S13 SR20 which flow 370cc stock and him returning them, cleaned, checked and guaranteed to flow 540cc. Thats what I mean.
I'm not up with injector stuff as to what would be required, this is just what he claims and charges for.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:25
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 21:06 |
Well, I'll still contest statement one, because 6BOOST from PF was charging a turnaround service to modify factory injectors for more flow.
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noyt withstanding 6Boost's technical skill, i'd be conerned about tinkering with all the good work mr bosch/denso et al put into designing injectors - it's minimal tolerance stuff - and usually designed with certain operating criteria in mind.
plus, changing the flow characteristics to get higher flow at high duty cycles may not produce the same increase in flow at low (shorter) duty cycles ... e.g. if your mods only work when the solenoid is fully open - but during a short duty cycle, the solenoid spends minimal time at fully open and significant time in an 'opening' state.
i can't see how you can get significant increases in flow rates without replacing the solnoid, pintle and valve seat... in which case it would be easier and possibly cheaper to get new bosch/denso/sard/... motorsport items from somebody like EFI technologies.
why not just buy larger injectors and spend a few bucks geting them cleaned?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:27
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/me smells BS
i dunno, im getting a bit out of my depth - but: i am aware that it means very little for a shops quantitative measure of an injector's flow to be 'different' from factory list flow. (much like the arguments over chasis dyno figures). whats important is that all injectors flow the same...
you know what im thinking. test fluid, test pressure, duty cycle, open and hold, other test conditions not accounted for etc etc...
from 370 to 540
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:30
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oh, and improvements after 'hi-flowing', as far as ive been reading (some reasonably professional looking workshops): youre looking at a max of about 8%
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:36
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Perhaps you should have a PM conversation with him, find out exactly what he does, filter the BS and relay it back to us
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:44
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i got a question... when you buy like 660cc injectors are they physically bigger? if so are they dramatically bigger to a point where you may say WOW THESE ARE HUGE COMPATRED TO THE STOCK ONES?
if not then i cant understand why you cant 'hi-flow' by changing the internals and having a bigger injection hole (or whatever it is called where the fuel comes out) and a bit of balancing for better flow...
but hey i dont know crap when it comes to injectors
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 11:55
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| thechuckster wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 19:25 |
why not just buy larger injectors and spend a few bucks geting them cleaned?
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Exactly why down the track I'll just be buying some 7MGTE injectors
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 12:00
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i found his original thread of PF about improving flow.
it seemed to read like he was drilling out the holes in the pintle (and busting lots of $20 drill bits).
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 12:03
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| thechuckster wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 22:00 |
i found his original thread of PF about improving flow.
it seemed to read like he was drilling out the holes in the pintle (and busting lots of $20 drill bits).
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*shudders*
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sat, 24 July 2004 13:04
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i am by no means doubting your technical knowledge guys, as i am by no means an expert on the subject.
with any system, there is always improvements to be made with any kind of hardware. when we think about the operating nature of the injector, it is only open for milliseconds at a time. so if an injector can flow like 500 cc a min, and there is some very slight improvements of the filters and seats etc, this would have to result in an increase in flow. i dont know about drilling the pintles etc as that seems very crude, but a 100 cc increase seems perfectly 'do-able'through the right kind of cleaning, tuning and perfecting of the injectors operating cycle.
but, like any other kind of 'half measure', there is always the durability point of view. balencing the injectors' flow rate could only be a good thing, but as for the exact procedure that some companies do to achieve this 'high flow' effect one would have to wonder if it impacts on the reliability of the injector.
for all we know, it could be like lightening a factory flywheel by getting out the dye grinder and taking some meat out of it. sure, it increases acceleration, but at what cost.....
why is there never a person who has first hand experience in such matters around when you need them???
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Getting injectors hi-flowed
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Sun, 25 July 2004 07:51
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im still waiting for someone to shoot me down and proove me wrong on this subject... i thought it woulda happened a lot sooner
is there anyone that has a definate answer on the topic??????
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