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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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 Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 03:21
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Simple question is it possible?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Diesel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 03:34
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Hello,
I don't think so, coz doesn't gas require a spark for combustion?
Cheers.
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 04:09
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Might pay for you to do a little research. The WA governemt has made a significant investment in converting their buses to operate on Natural gas. I also understand the the ACT Government in the recent past had several buses converted in the same way. Can't remember the details but it would seem as though there is a way.
Craig
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 08:57
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nope - desiel engine run at much different compression ratio and valve timing to spark-ignited-fuel engines. ere's that little matter about a lack of spark plug.
even if you got a directly injected LPG system running, the engine (particularly the head and top comp ring) wouldn't be designed with that fuel in mind.
i'd expect the bus swap to requie significant engien mods (brisbane is also running a few gas powered buses now)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 10:16
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As far as I know, the government here didn't change the buses from diesel to gas, they just chose to use gas buses when they purchased new ones.
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Location:
Yowie Bay, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 10:39
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simple answer - NO
unless u call installing a petrol engine part of ur gas conversion...
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 10:54
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Yes it can be done but depends on the comp ratio as to wether it will run well or not.
Have seen truck that has had the conv done and according to the owner the comp ratio was just right to run gas.Can't remember what he said it was though.
The way it was explained was that the motor was just right so that the gas would self ignite at the right time,only catch was that it had to start and warm up on deisel before switching to gas.
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 11:20
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it is 'possible' to convert some diesel engines over to use LPG, but one would have to wonder why....
the cost involved in the process, and the fact that u would have to use like 2 to 3 times the amount of gas as diesel, it would not be cost effective at all...
the only reason some govts are deciding to go gas powered is that it reduces amount of particles and shit that result from burning fuels like diesel.
also, with gas, there would be a HUGE loss of torque.
hope that answers some of ur qns
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 11:49
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this is a bit O/T but...
I've read that you can introduce gas (LPG) into your diesel's air supply for added power, in much the same way as nitrous on petrol powered cars...
i think its good to add something like 10% or so ??
i've found very little info on this (also haven't looked much) but a few of the serious 4x4 guys do it, it also helps to cool down exhaust gasses which is nicer on turbos and heads !
Cam
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 12:01
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there is a way to inject gas into the intake system of a diesel.
the theory is that 1. its cold, denser charge, more boost run
and 2. it allows for the mixture to be run leaner without making exhaust temps skyrocket and cook turbos etc..
it provides something like 20% better economy and prolly about 10% better power...
it has been a while since i last delved into the topic, so those figures could be wrong...
but u are right, it is possible, and it does work well...
from memory, it is only a very small amount of LPG, like 5 litres to like 1000 litres of diesel or something like that anyways...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 12:21
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Ok some conflicting answers. but IF it were possible would it be worth doing?
Dads ute runs on gas and it cheap to run 39.9c a litre 
How do diesel engines compare for millage? at $1.10 a litre I'de wanna go far!!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 12:42
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evil truck drivers for years have been runing a hose from a gas bottle into the intake makes more power and gives a compleate burn of the diesel (IE no black smoke) the igniting diesel acts as the "spark plug"
VERY do-able
Allan
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Location:
Taree (4 hrs north of syd...
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 12:53
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can be done mate doe it at his mechanics shop just cost more than a petrol so he tells me. ask him he is arb_20t on this forum
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 12:55
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Ahh, you've just jogged my memory Allan...
It makes more power as it ups the burn rate of the diesel from about 60-70% to about 95% (hence no black smoke)
As for economy...
39c/l might be cheap, but...
you will use about 2 times as much gas to go the same distance in comparison to petrol, so its cheaper than petrol...
but diesel's are generally more economical than petrol motors...
i cant give a definate answer as it depends on lots of things...
but heres some numbers to consider...
We used to have a LN65 hilux ('85 4x4) with a 253 (4.2l holden V8) that was on gas and petrol.
A tank of gas (72l) would get us about 300-350kms, so thats about 24l/100km
it wasnt tuned real well and got about the same economy on petrol.
i've also recently had another hilux (LN106) with a 3L (2.8L Diesel) it could go about 600kms on a tank of diesel (60l)
so thats about 10l/100km. which is less than 1/2 !
it also depends where your going to be going...
we drove both of these hilux's from sydney to perth and back.
and gas out in the middle of nowhere is upto 90c/l !
and diesel was only $1.30 or so...
and in this situation the diesel is much cheaper !
and if you run out a jerry can can fix you...
ever ran out of gas ??
food for thought,
Cam
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Mon, 26 July 2004 13:18
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There's some interesting suggestions being put forth here! Here's a few ideas:
Diesel engine combustion temp INCREASES as you go richer, DECREASES as you go leaner - opposite to petrol
Propane is used to INCREASE torque in diesel engines, not decrease...
One way of making a diesel engine 'run' on propane is to cut the diesel flow down dramatically, and use a small amount of diesel to ignite the propane, rather than the compression itself. This results in a cleaner, quiter, more powerful engine, not the other way around!
You should NOT use twice as much LPG as petrol, even with the crap forklift fuel you buy at many servo's - why do you? exceptionally bad conversion. My first car - KE55 with a mighty(!) 4K, I converted to LPG using parts I had lying around. On LPG, it went harder than it did on petrol, did not worsen fuel economy, and was naturally a whole heap cheaper to run. That's not to say the bloody thing had any guts though!  Yes, in theory you WILL use more LPG than petrol due to energy density, but not twice as much. Basic calculations comparing the worst forklift fuel (50/50 propane/butane) with petrol suggest about 1.2 times. Why do LPG vehicles so often use so much fuel? Well has anyone ever had a look at the quality of control of a typical LPG system! It's worse than a 1920s carburettor...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Tue, 27 July 2004 08:29
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Dads ute is duel fuel, we get more out of LPG than we do petrol.
We had in in for a tune up recently and the mechanic told us that to tune the LPG side of things better we would need to replace the ?something? (converter?) as it was a bodgey ford part and will run better on an aftermarket part, plus we have been told it will run better on straight LPG as apposed to duel fuel.
Not meaning to hijack my own thread but does anyone know whats in voled in a full LPG conversion as apposed dual fuel?
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Tue, 27 July 2004 11:16
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to answer your questions on diesel gas
There is a business up near Newcastle called
DIESEL GAS it is run by Andy Shinkarenko (not sure on spelling)
he is a registered automotive engineer and he does this conversion and other modifications.
it would cost approx same to do as a car.
diesel is supply on demand system.
when gas is introduced into the manifold the diesel supply automaticaly reduces it self.
So when you run out of gas it reverts back to strait diesel.
compression is not a problem gas will not ignite without some diesel. his vehicle last time I spoke to him was runing on a ratio of about 2/3rds gas and 1/3rd diesel with more power
the vehicle was a turbo triton 4x4.
1 litre of gas goes about same as 1 litre diesel.
I could keep going on about good points but this should point yo in right direction.
when I can afford it I will do it.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Deisel to Gas convertion?
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Wed, 28 July 2004 00:44
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The British Government are giving cash refunds on gas conversions in England and they have been sucessfull in converting diesel cars to gas. I like that truck drivers gas trick, i've been a diesel driver for a few years and i'd love to try it.
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