| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
|
Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 04:57
 
|
 |
|
taking meat out of stock flywheel increases the chance of taking meat out of your feet.
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:03
|
|
|
Just buy a new chrome moly flywheel... safe and lighter!
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:05
|
|
thanks toobs!
how much would that set me back? and from where dude? any sponsors have that kind of stuff?
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:12
|
|
I'm getting mine with my twin plate clutch from Pittwater brake and clutch... got a pretty good deal too!
Give Phil a call!
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:16
|
|
oh really...
I am getting my clutch from him right now and some springs.... maybe I should just add to the order.
dude can you PM me how much, even ballpark, 'cause I hate harassing Phil and he does such an awesome service for us Toymods boys. Not that I am trying to harass you.. 
I was up for about $120max for a lightening of mine at Dominator.
|
|
|
Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:19
|
|
Oh yeah - I doubt it would be a big issue if you lighten the flywheel by a kilo or two, but you also have to consider how much torque your engine will apply to things like the timing belt etc when freely revving - they can stretch/slip from what I hear but I think this happens moreso at the extreme end of flywheel lightening.
Also - because of the layout - if the flywheel goes it's probably the passenger that is in deeper shit than the driver.
|
|
|
Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:23
|
|
Oh yeah - and there's lightened flywheels and there's lightened flywheels too  A flywheel with it's weight distributed farther from the centre will have more angular momentum than a flywheel with it's weight distributed more locally around the centre - meaning one will act 'heavier' than the other even if they weigh the same on a set o' scales.
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:26
|
|
yeah it is my passenger that would get rooted... or just his right side.
I imagine that these cases we are talking about are rather extreme yes?
A lightened flywheel vs a chromoly one (of similar weight) would both apply similar torque to the timing belt I imagine.
I think the biggest issue really is safety, and I just cannot visualise a problem loosing a kilo, professionally done from the right place, however, as toobs has suggested, the best option is a chromoly one.
(not to be confused with chrome bling bling) 
However this may yet prove expensive, and if there is no genuine saftey concern (I am getting this done at a workshop) over 1 kilo I will be happy. A chormoly one may be too light as well! I don't want my cruisability to go to bits. 
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:35
|
|
going back 20 years ago everyone used to lighte stock flywheels as they had trouble getting aftermarket ones at a sensible price but a good aftermarket one will cost you from $400-6oo and will be alot stronger!ive seen three flywheels let loose on the circuit over the last 15 years and i can tell you its like a very big very fast angle grinder letting loose! i saw one come out the bonnet on the turn into the straight at oran and land in the grand stand. it was a club meet so there was only a couple of people in the stand so it was very luck.
go after market if you want a light one as a kilo want make much diffrence in a daily driver but its just like the damn smoke that i use!its bad for your health. may never happen but either does a major crash. it only happens to other people!
mick
p.s if you want one give me a yell, id rather you have a proper lightened flywheel.
|
|
|
Location:
Bayside Melbourne.
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:42
|
|
| FWDboy wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 15:23 |
Oh yeah - and there's lightened flywheels and there's lightened flywheels too A flywheel with it's weight distributed farther from the centre will have more angular momentum than a flywheel with it's weight distributed more locally around the centre - meaning one will act 'heavier' than the other even if they weigh the same on a set o' scales.
|
I was going to say this... The difference it makes will depend on the distance from the centre the weight is being taken from. For instance, taking a kilo off the outer edge can equal the same as taking 5 kilos from somewhere near the axis of rotation... Note: those figures are pulled out of my arse as an example only.
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:45
|
|
| Quote: |
go after market if you want a light one as a kilo want make much diffrence in a daily driver but its just like the damn smoke that i use!its bad for your health. may never happen but either does a major crash. it only happens to other people!
mick
p.s if you want one give me a yell, id rather you have a proper lightened flywheel.
|
kingmick dude, thanks heaps for the post! Like you said, it is peeps at the track being stupid and probably badly/over lightening them, or having them not balanced etc etc..
I don't neccessarily want a one kilo one (hence this post) but I am definitely getting either it lightened or purchasing an aftermarket one.
I just don't have $400 bucks for it, that my dilemma mate, but I am not going to be an idiot and sacrifice someone's health for the sake of a kick off the line. If I cannot be certain that knocking one kilo off my fly is safe, then it won't happen and I will just have to keep my stock, or somehow find the cash for an aftermarket light fly (my favorite, but somewhat pie-in-the-sky solution).
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:47
|
|
yeah... please dont machine a stock flywheel. youll achive very little, and the risk you take for that very little just isnt worth it. buy a nice light cromo one in good time when you can afford/justify its cost and performance benefit
cheers
ed
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:49
|
|
it is interesting how cautious we all are about lightening my stock wheel.
Given that two reputable workshops here in nw sydney are more than happy to take a kilo off then with no concerns.
Perhaps we are talking extremes here? Like if I took 3kgs off or something?
| Quote: |
Oh yeah - and there's lightened flywheels and there's lightened flywheels too A flywheel with it's weight distributed farther from the centre will have more angular momentum than a flywheel with it's weight distributed more locally around the centre - meaning one will act 'heavier' than the other even if they weigh the same on a set o' scales.
|
yeah.. je comprend I did physics too.. heheh
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 05:52
|
|
| RobST162 wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 15:49 |
Perhaps we are talking extremes here? Like if I took 3kgs off or something?
|
nope... just wouldnt touch a stock cast flywheel - period
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 06:00
|
|
yet it seems strange, does it not, that professional workshops, even Toymods sponsors, do!?
We can't blame every instance of a flywheel coming off because of weakness due to lightening. There is quite a number of factors, and if somone who I pay $80 per hour to be an expert tells me, "Yeah sure!"..
.. well I just don't know what to think.
DevilRolla had his done in Thornleigh some time ago now...
hrm.. me confused....
anyone know a good place to get a good price on some chro-mo? (Other than a bike store.. )
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 06:41
|
|
Toobs interested to see if western clutch would do a better price.
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 06:50
|
|
nothing to do with price! johnny(western clutches) is the best in the game,i use him as does most of the people in the know. but if you tell him mick from austrack said your safer with a moly flywheel he will give you the same advice.
mick
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 06:54
|
|
These dodgy flying flywheels are more likely from crap flywheel bolts or poorly balanced flywheels rather than the flywheel itself being weak.
Consider that your flywheel will most likely rotate at speeds up to 8-9,000RPM on occasions and balancing does play a very important factor.
If you want to know if a certain workshop will lighten your flywheel properly ask them what equipment they use to balance it...!
Note: A lathe is not a balancing machine.
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 06:57
|
|
| Bugman wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 16:41 |
Toobs interested to see if western clutch would do a better price.
|
Phil did a pretty damned good deal for me... its a daiken TM012SR twin plate clutch and I got it for 70% of the price of the next best quote... and I had several people getting me mates rates prices!
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 07:17
|
|
| Quote: |
If you want to know if a certain workshop will lighten your flywheel properly ask them what equipment they use to balance it...!
Note: A lathe is not a balancing machine.
|
yeah dude at dominator went to great lengths to explain the balancing procedure to me.
this is extremely important I feel
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 07:23
|
|
| RobST162 wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 17:17 |
| Quote: |
If you want to know if a certain workshop will lighten your flywheel properly ask them what equipment they use to balance it...!
Note: A lathe is not a balancing machine.
|
yeah dude at dominator went to great lengths to explain the balancing procedure to me.
this is extremely important I feel
|
Good to see that Toymods sponsors take care of us... feel all warm and fuzzy now. 
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 07:37
|
|
lol
yeah they are champs.. although it seems their willingness to take 1kg off the outer edge of the fly is not so good.. hehe
I still don't quite understand why removing a small amount of metal from an area (of the fly) that gets very very little (relatively) torsional power is so bad....
|
|
|
Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 07:46
|
|
The problems with lightened flywheels are usually caused by centrifugal forces.
Generally when you see a flywheel that has been lightened fail it actually shatters/explodes. The flywheel will rarely stay in one piece if it is caused by too much lightening. The problem is that a cast iron flywheel relies on a thin skin of dense cast material on the surface of the flywheel to generate the vast majority of the strength, the inner casting is very soft.
I really wanted a lighter flywheel for my car but since the flywheel is right behind the back of the passenger I figured I wouldn't risk it. Luckily the half cut I got came with a nice little billet flywheel with the twin plate clutch.
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 10:09
|
|
mmmm... so being a toymods sponsor makes a workshop head and shoulders above other workshops in the intellectual machining stakes huh?
me thinks not
sure, it can be done, and shops can happily do it for $x.xx
go ahead. your car and money. you asked for advice, people have given some. you want to argue... i dont. good luck with the project.
ed
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 12:42
|
|
| Quote: |
mmmm... so being a toymods sponsor makes a workshop head and shoulders above other workshops in the intellectual machining stakes huh?
|
lol.. ohh somebody's grumpy and cynical.. but I already knew that.  hehehe
What being a toymods sponsor makes them, is exposure to a level of accountability and criticism that other workshops are not neccessarily exposed to, so in many ways they will watch their words more than perhaps your average workshop. Furthermore, if you had any idea of the expertise of the dude at Dominator, I don't think you would be so hasty. He is one of the most honest, frank and expert peoples I know.
So that is why it is worth throwing all these ideas around dude...
You are right. My money, my car. Which is why this thread origionated, so that we can all figure the best, and safest, way to do this.. and so future peeps can come and have a look and be educated themselves (we hope) and I sure appreciate everybody's positive and helpful criticisms and ideas.
It seems there is a lot of debate here.. so I have decided to make my cast flywheel look like this...
what you reckon?
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 13:46
|
|
grumpy? yes
cynical...? yep!
god, am i getting old or something? nah, seriously, just trying to offer some sound advice. i have nothing to lose or gain, so at least you know im impartial. one of my general 'backyard mechanic' rules that i try never to break: dont machine/modify/significantly alter the function of cast parts.
casting is the single crapiest way of making stuff. im sure oldcorollas could chime in with the heterogenous crystalline structure of cast chunks of metal. definitely a no-go-zone in my modification books.
and as a rule - mechanics and machinists arent rocket scientists. just because they 'can' doesnt mean its a terribly smart idea.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 11 August 2004 21:41
|
|
| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 23:46 |
one of my general 'backyard mechanic' rules that i try never to break: dont machine/modify/significantly alter the function of cast parts.
|
I totally agree with Ed here. The best thing to do regardless of what people have said they can do, is save up/beg/borrow/steal the money for a good billet flywheel and be done with it.
Simple as that.
QED.
|
|
|
Location:
nsw
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Thu, 12 August 2004 03:07
|
|
|
rob, u no my thoughts on this.....
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Sat, 21 August 2004 12:27
|
|
Did you get your flywheel machined yet?
Is that other thread what Tempe did to your flywheel not your wheels?
FYI My stock gen 3 3sgte flywheel weighs in at 7.3kgs
I'm going to weigh the chrome moly one when it eventually gets here to see what the difference in weight is.
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Sat, 21 August 2004 14:31
|
|
nah didn't get it machined mate
getting a BEAMS 3SGE LSD g-box off a dude here on toymods with fly and clutch on it! it's off a single VVT-i BEAMS
how good is toymods.. ahhh
very stoked and can't wait
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her?
|
Wed, 25 August 2004 23:15
|
|
Thought you might be interested in what ended up happenning
I now have a 6kg BEAMS flywheel from a 1998 single vvti 3sge
it's hot
now if I can only get my stock wheel off 
|
|
|
Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
|
Thu, 26 August 2004 06:02
|
|
|
please define your statement "it's hot"
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
|
Thu, 26 August 2004 06:06
|
|
lol it is 2kg lighter than my stock one
not bad for factory.. that's all i meant
|
|
|
Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
|
Thu, 26 August 2004 13:00
|
|
Rob,
when dealing with cars its hot normally means stolen. Please use the works its fully sick, and if you really mean it or you know the person a bro can be added.
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
|
Thu, 26 August 2004 13:31
|
|
ok, my bad, let me rephrase
it is hot like Anna Olsen
not like stolen
and it's fully sick....
..bro
|
|
|
Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
|
Thu, 26 August 2004 22:30
|
|
yeah weird huh
but it is weird that a BEAMS fly would be dodgy
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
|
Thu, 26 August 2004 23:07
|
|
toobs' gen3 flywheel has just as many balancing holes....
maybe all these other flywheels you are seeing arent as precisely balanced??
|
|
|
7.8kg 3SGE Flywheel - How much shall I lighten her? (update)
