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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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 swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:21
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im thinking of ditching the power steering out of my supra, but i know that without the power assist the ma61 rack is HEAVY as shit.
i dont know a heap about how different racks are designed/built:
a) do non power assisted racks have different gear ratios on the pinion/rack in order to make the steering lighter, or is it a dfference in the length of the steering arms (leverage ratio) that is used to compensate for the heavier feel?
b) does anyone know if there is a difference in the ratios of pinion/rack gearing between the RA6x and MA61 racks? could I swap a manual celica rack into my supra, and not have stupidly heavy steering?
c) forgetting about the length of rack ends and tie rods, does the actual rack out of a RA6x physically fit into a MA61?
d) for people with non power assisted RA6x cars, how do you find the steering? tolerable? light? heavy? wish you had power steering never/some/most of the time?
it would make my life REALLY easy if a non power assist rack out of a celica would bolt into the supra (with mods to tie rods etc) and not be really heavy to the hand (at least compared to the supra rack)...
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:33
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I remeber Norbie saying they were different, though to what extent and whether they will bolt up or not, I don't know? Generally, they run different ratios between power steer and non power steer setups too, as there is no need for the turns lock to lock in a power steer setup.
Clint
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:37
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yeah i recall norbz saying hes tried fitting a RA65 one with no success
any word from teh man himself?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:39
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| CLG wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 13:33 |
I remeber Norbie saying they were different, though to what extent and whether they will bolt up or not, I don't know? Generally, they run different ratios between power steer and non power steer setups too, as there is no need for the turns lock to lock in a power steer setup.
Clint
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thats the ratios on the pinion/rack itself you mean?
how many turns lock to lock in a RA6x? anyone? are they a PITA to drive. i dont give a flying f*ck how hard it is to park, just to drive
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:45
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Forget it dude, the Celica steering rack is incompatible with the Supra. The steering-box part of the rack is on a different angle so it won't line up with your steering column. The mounting points are different also.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:53
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poop...
any chance i can gut one and swap bits over, make a hybrid low ratio rack? hmmm <me wonders>
might go have a wander around the wreckers this arvo, see what there is to see...
im sick of PS - do you know how much simpler my bay would be without it 
cheers
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 03:55
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actually, what about different steering arms, using the stock supra rack in non power assist form? would reduce the turning circle, but would ease things up a bit... any ideas on arms that could be swapped in?
...i could see a lot of 3pt turns in that option 
fark...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 04:11
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Why don't you just loop your P/S lines, fill the rack with ATF, and live with what you have? It's not THAT bad at parking speeds! If I can steer it with my girly arms, you shouldn't have any problems either. 
Note that manual racks are nearly always heaps slower (ie more turns lock to lock) than the equivalent P/S rack. I've never driven a manual-steer RA6x but I'd bet money that's the case with them. Needless to say, slow steering is ghey.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 04:13
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I have non-PS on my car with 215/40R17s on.
It's not that heavy for me, but I've done years of martial arts...
Parking can be a bitch sometimes, but it's fine when driving.
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 06:30
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I do know that the power racks are quicker (less turns lock to lock?), as the manual racks would be even heavier if they were the same... 'speed' [not feeling very articulate at the moment]
I seem to remember a while back someone on the OCC mentioning the differences between the A6 celi and supra racks, might be worth asking there.
What Nark said. I'm thinking RCAs will make the steerign a littel lighter.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Thu, 12 August 2004 22:03
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 14:11 |
Why don't you just loop your P/S lines, fill the rack with ATF, and live with what you have? It's not THAT bad at parking speeds! If I can steer it with my girly arms, you shouldn't have any problems either.
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What Norbs saiod is what quite a few of the guys Stateside do, and they report that it is not too bad, and one guy even does autocross this way.
And if anyone had girly arms, it would be the Yanks
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Fri, 13 August 2004 03:49
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well i disconnected everything last night - what can i say, its nowhere near as heavy as i recall. infact, it think its more fun to drive without the assist... suddenly i remember what its like to "feel" the steering centre itself, rather than trying to guess if the wheels are straight.
i did a quick hill climb last night, and you really have to wrench on the wheel, and throw it around, but the feedback you get far outweighs any extra effort. only parking at full lock is a minor PITA... meh!
and yeah, you dont really need to loop the lines back and fill the thing with fluid. infact the fluid would act as a damper in the piston, and would make life harder. the end of the rack where the PS fluid resides doesnt really require it for any major lubrication. a bit in there sloshing about wouldnt hurt, but it hardly needs to be 'full' of fluid. cap the line threads, and lots of molydisulphide and youd be fine i think.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Fri, 13 August 2004 03:53
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My rack survived for about 2 years with the lines completely disconnected (and therefore no fluid inside the rack), so I guess looping the lines isn't really necessary. I was half-expecting it to die after a few months but it's still OK!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Fri, 13 August 2004 04:25
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Sounds promising
What steering wheel are you running Ed ?
I'll look into this as well, as my car isn't going to be a daily driver, and getting rid of some shit from the engine bay will be nice, and make it easier to run a decent oil cooler 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Fri, 13 August 2004 04:28
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Fri, 13 August 2004 14:25 |
Sounds promising
What steering wheel are you running Ed ?
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MOMO Mod 07 Race or Rally Steering Wheel
Dished spokes, 350mm diameter in black suede.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Fri, 13 August 2004 04:31
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i gotta say, im actually pretty happy with the whole manual thing. more 'brutal' to drive if you know what i mean. much more feel... you actally 'drive' it.
one thing though, i feel i need to move the wheel closer to me. its already decently dished, but i think ill get more power, and wont pull my shoulders out of the seat supports as much if its closer to me. need to try a 1" spacer or something behind it.
nothing quite like hanging hard into a corner, and you shoulder pulls out of the seat... might as well be sitting on a bench
cheers
ed
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: swapping a manual RA6x steering rack into an MA61...
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Fri, 13 August 2004 04:36
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I want to get a suede wheel, but was told that they don't last long on a road car at all, but seing as mine won't be a daily driver, maybe I'll be OK.
How is your's lasting Ed ?
Some decent seats are on the cards once the car is engineered for me
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