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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 01:16
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Hello, I am currently building a RWD 3S-GTE engine up. I am using a ST205 head on the ST185 block.
My question is, the toyota part numbers for ST205 and ST185 cam gears are different. What gears should I be running?
I dont have both sets of gears to compare side by side so not sure what the difference is.
Anyone done this conversion before and can help out? I'd hate to build it with ST205 gears and then find out there is a different amount of teeth or something.
Thanks
Joel
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 02:30
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have you made sure it all lines up ? for everything ive read + been told - a gen 3 head wont firt on a gen 2 block 
If youve figured out how to do it - id be keen to know how
as for cam teeth - grab cool 1 and get him to count the ones on his motor + compare those to your old gen 2 head ( if you still have it )
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 02:34
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Hmm everyone i've talked to has said they are interchangable? You have to use ST205 headgasket though.
JustenGT4 I think it was seemed confident they lined up?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 02:36
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bt all means test it - as before ill be keen to see how it goes - as if it DOES work - i may look at doing it later on my super strong gen2 bottom end ( more powah ! )
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 03:52
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Yup the blocks are effectively identical so you just have to use the 205 gasket with the 205 head.
I have 205 and 185 cam gears as they are also identical as far as i can tell...same number of teeth and bolt up to either set of cams. Dunno why the part numbers are different? maybe a change in material or supplier?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 04:14
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Hi Justen, thanks for confirming that.
The ST205 head I got didn't come with cam gears, but I have a set of ST162 3SGE gears. Wonder if these are the same. Do you think if I counted the teeth and maybe took a picture of them you could tell if they are the same as the ST185/205 ones?
Thanks
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 04:17
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Send me the info by all means Joel. I do know however that 162 and 165 cams can't be used in the 185 or 205 heads so i suspect the cam gears may be different.
If needs be i can supply you with some cam gears i have a few sets spare.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 04:21
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if they are not interchangeable couldnt you change the cam gear on the crank to suit? so use the ST162 crank gear on the 185 crank if they fit on...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 04:30
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not if you can't use the cams
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 04:37
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I'll get some info on the ST162 gears.. I checked out some suppliers of adjustable cam gears and the part numbers for all 3sge and 3sgte seem the same.
Thanks for the info Justen, i'll send you some details on the gears over the next few days.
On another note in regards to gears.. Do people really think adjustable is necessary?
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 24 August 2004 04:44
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no probs. I'm outta the office from tomorrow arvo until Mon so i'll get back to you early next week
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 18 January 2005 23:16
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Digging up one of my old threads.. Got a few more questions about similar topic 
I got some ST205 cam gears so all is good there.
Now anyone know what timing belt I would run? Again ST185 and ST205 have different part numbers.
Also I purchased new belt tensioners and pulleys etc all for the ST185, the ST205 has different part numbers for all these bits as well.
So just trying to get an idea of what bits I need ST205 and what bits remain ST185.
Thanks
Joel
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 18 January 2005 23:39
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The ST205 timing belt is a different part because the gear on the oil pump is smaller. This means the ST-205 belt is about two teeth shorter from memory. So if you are running the ST185 oil pump and tensioners etc I see no reason why the St-185 belt wouldn't work.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Tue, 18 January 2005 23:55
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I used a 205 belt on my 205 engine with the 185 oil pump. Go figure 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 00:11
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Ahh ok cool.. That will be good if I can run the ST185 belt and tensioners etc. As I only recently purchased all these new from Toyota.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 00:11
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That's interesting.
Here's a pic comparing the drive gear on the Gen2 and the Gen3.
The Gen3 pump is on the right and if you take a look at the distance from the lower bolt holes to the pulley itself you can clearly see how much smaller the pulley is.
I'd be a little concerned about the tension on a Gen3 belt in an engine using a Gen2 oil pump.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 00:42
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Actually thinking about, I dont think toyota sell the pumps with the pully fitted. So I probably fitted the 205 pully on the 185 pump 
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 01:24
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Fair enough. The rotor in each is the same size, it just means you'll get a higher volume oils upply using the gen3 pulley than you would using the gen2.
As long as the Gen2 pump is built as well as the gen3 one it should be a good thing.
One other question are either of you guys modifying the pressure relief valve. I have been following a lot of discussion with the US MR2 community where they are both porting the Gen2 pump outlet to improve volume and shimming the pressure relief spring in either version to increase the pressure. Supposedly running standard pressure gets a little dubious at anything over 8000rpm.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 01:31
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Thats interesting.. I'll have to investigate this more before the engine starts to go together. I have a brand new toyota pump assembly for it.
I put a shim in my 3tgte oil pump pressure valve and its great. Overall its added around 10psi of pressure.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 01:35
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Yeah the guy that builds most of the tough 3S and 3S stroker motors over there recommended a 1-1.5mm shim in the valve.
The problem is I can't get a straight answer on exactly how much this increases the pressure by.
Apparently the late model 5S-FE pump is the go if you're buying a new pump as it goes in to replace the gen two one but the gerotor is c about 15% longer, it also has the smaller pulley by default so this would give a much higher volume than the Gen2 pump.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Wed, 19 January 2005 01:50
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Yeah the shim I used on the 3T was around .8mm .. I couldn't find much information about it either so just took a guess and worked out well.. But I did read someone put a shim too large and ended up with too much oil pressure, causing problems with turbo seals etc. So gotta be careful.
Maybe some other people out there will know more about the 3sgte oil mods?
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Location:
Alice Springs
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: ST205 head on ST185 block question
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Thu, 20 January 2005 11:55
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Apparently Beams 3sg uses high volume oil pump to drive VVT and will fit 3sgte
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