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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Celica Info Help
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Mon, 30 August 2004 11:11
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Hey there, I see many of the people here are big Celica fans. So to all those of vast knowledge in the world of Celica can I please ask some help  ?
Unlike the other models Toyotas, I seem to have huge trouble when it comes to knowing what model is what. I see ST204s that look like ST184s etc etc. Being interested in a particular model can someone please tell me what early 90's models came with the 3S-GE? I've seen some in SX form then some with the 2.2L engine as SX as well. Oh and what is the 2.2L engine? 5S-FE?
The shape I'm after is roughly 1992 and thereabouts. Thatnks guys. Also if anyone knows any good Celica thech site can they please point me in the right direction? I've had trouble finding some.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Mon, 30 August 2004 11:20
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the st184 is the uber-rounded one with pop up headlights.
the st204 has 2 round headlights on each side... sorta looks like a bastard child of a mk4 supra (that's what they remind me of anyway)
184 had 3s-ge, 204 has 5s-fe (I *think*.... fwd sucks anyways)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Tue, 31 August 2004 00:59
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here it is, the pointi sharper lookin moidles, the earlier 86-89 st162 sx models(liftback) had the 3sge.the 184 and 204 had a 5sfe - Australian release anyway. JDM got a 182 and a 202 which had gen2 and gen3 3sge's respectively. Late st202s also came with the VVTi engine (not beams but similar)
If u want a 3sge but prefer the other bodies, find a straight one with a clapped out motor and purchase urself a gen3 st202 halfcut - simple bolt in with heaps of improvement and modifying potential.
thegen2 and 3 engines were also int he mr2s so be careful when searchin for halfcuts..
Hope this helps
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Tue, 31 August 2004 01:54
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The 1992-ish model you are talking about is the 5th gen Celica, ST184 which had the 2.2L 5S-FE engine. If you have seen this model with the 3S-GE (or at least 2.0L badging) then it would be an import.
The only Aus-delivered model with the 2.0L 3S-GE was the 4th gen (ST162), from 85-89. Unfortunately Toyota Australia saw fit to replace the 3S-GE with the 5S-FE (the same motor as the Camry) for the 5th and 6th gen models. As Stuc mentioned, the 5th and 6th gen Celicas still came with the 3S-GE (updated with each model) in Japan.
Celica model codes ending in "2" have the 2.0L 3S series motors (3S-GE or 3S-FE - see below), codes ending in "4" have the 2.2L 5S series, and those ending in "5" have the 3S-GTE (turbo 3S-GE) meaning the GT-Four models.
Quick summary:
4th Gen (85-89)
ST162: 3S-GE in SX, 3S-FE in ST
ST165: 3S-GTE GT-Four
5th Gen (89-93)
ST182: Gen 2 3S-GE JDM model
ST184: 5S-FE Aus-delivered model
ST185: Gen 2 3S-GTE GT-Four
6th Gen (94-99)
ST202: Gen 3 3S-GE JDM model (and Gen 4 later in life)
ST204: 5S-FE Aus model (engine pretty much carried over from ST184)
ST205: Gen 3 3S-GTE GT-Four
As Stuc also mentioned, the Gen 2 and Gen 3 3S-GE's came here in the MR2. Gen 2 in 89-93 models, and Gen 3 in the 94-99 model.
There are some pics of the different generation 3S-GE's on this page:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9975/dataBy Subject/Engine.html
And a member is currently putting a Gen 2 3S-GE into his ST162 in the "ST162 dedicated thread" in the General Car Talk forum - check it out.
Hope that helps clarify things for you!
-Matt
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Tue, 31 August 2004 10:18
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Excellent, thanks guys, that's exactly what I was after. I always had a thing for th ST18x models but could never sort out which was which. So basically summing it up, it's a hard find to get an ST182 then...
Because personally, I would prefer the 3SGE over 5S engine simply because of the sports factor.
A couple more questions, what's an approximate figure for the value of an ST182?
and what is the "ST182: Gen 2 3S-GE JDM model" referred to as? Is it still SX? or does it have just regular Celica...
Thanks a million guys, tha's been very helpful.
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Wed, 01 September 2004 00:50
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Yeah if you REALLY want an ST182 rather than an ST184 (and I don't blame you!) then you'd have to import one. Either that or get an ST184 locally and get hold of an ST182 half cut to swap in the 3SGE - would be a simple swap to do.
As for what the JDM ST182 is referred to as, I'm not sure. I have seen some JDM 5th gen Celicas badged as "GTR" (which I believe has 4 wheel steering) which is probably the top spec version, if there are lower spec versions I'm not sure what they are called.
The letters used for trim/spec designations usually vary depending on what country they are sold in. In Australia the Celicas came as the ST and SX (and then SX and ZR from 6th gen onwards), in the US they use GT and GT-S. The GTR name was used in Japan and I believe in NZ as well.
-Matt
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Wed, 01 September 2004 12:18
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Late st202s also came with the VVTi engine (not beams but similar)
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actually StuC my new g-box came out of an ST202 which had a single vvti beams in it! How do I know? I have seen the motor which my new box was attached to.. and the 1/2 cut was a 202 celica... crazy huh
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Thu, 02 September 2004 00:33
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| RobST162 wrote on Wed, 01 September 2004 22:18 |
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Late st202s also came with the VVTi engine (not beams but similar)
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actually StuC my new g-box came out of an ST202 which had a single vvti beams in it! How do I know? I have seen the motor which my new box was attached to.. and the 1/2 cut was a 202 celica... crazy huh
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Hey Rob,
So is your ST202 gearbox an S53? (Or at least externally the same as an S53?) I'm curious to know how the ST202 gearbox adapts to the ST162 as I am contemplating a Gen 3 3SGE & gearbox swap from an ST202 half cut one day. Do the ST162 driveshafts & gear linkages etc hook straight up with no dramas? Would be handy to know how it all went for you.
Thanks,
Matt
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Thu, 02 September 2004 00:42
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So is your ST202 gearbox an S53? (Or at least externally the same as an S53?) I'm curious to know how the ST202 gearbox adapts to the ST162 as I am contemplating a Gen 3 3SGE & gearbox swap from an ST202 half cut one day. Do the ST162 driveshafts & gear linkages etc hook straight up with no dramas? Would be handy to know how it all went for you.
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hey matt
so far:
1. Exactly the same casting (almost). Bolts right on. Though starter motor is located in front of the water outlet. A bit cozy, but no drama
2. I don't know if is an S53. I have no idea. But it looks the same.
3. Gear linkages = perfect match.
4. Speedo. Came with an electronic one, but the mechanisms swapped over no problem.
5. Driveshafts, slid right in!
BUT I can't get the clutch to disengage atm. Not sure if the new flywheel is skinnier as well as lighter.  In which case I *may* need an upgraded master cylinder poop This is the problem I am trying to fix now
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Thu, 02 September 2004 01:57
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Well if the casting is that close and everything hooks up fine then that sounds good to me! Thanks for the info mate.
Bugger about the clutch disengagement problem - did anyone measure the stock ST162 slave cylinder travel for you yet? If not I'll grab one of the guys here at lunch and get the figure for ya.
-Matt
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Thu, 02 September 2004 01:59
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would love that matt thanks!
though I was thinking, what determines the slave cylinder's travel? it is the MC! and mine would be the same as yours I reckon ay...
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Celica Info Help
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Thu, 02 September 2004 05:09
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| RobST162 wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 11:59 |
would love that matt thanks!
though I was thinking, what determines the slave cylinder's travel? it is the MC! and mine would be the same as yours I reckon ay...
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Rob,
Just measured it - as near as I can read on the ruler, the travel is 13mm.
What directly determines the slaves cylinder's travel (assuming that it's bore/stroke doesn't change) is the volume of fluid being squeezed into it, which in turn is determined by the master cylinder as you pointed out.
Are you using a new slave that came with the gearbox? If so, it's possible that it has a larger capacity than the ST162 one, and the amount of fluid pushed in by the stock master cylinder isn't enough to make it disengage the clutch anymore. In that case you would definitely need an upgraded one.
But I'm just clutching at straws here.........sorry, did I just say that?
-Matt
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