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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 00:38
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While I was at the wreckers on the weekend looking for my diff upgrade, i noticed an isuzu 3.5 v6 engine sitting on the shelf for sale.
Has anyone ever investigated these engines as a swap in to early model celicas.
From what i was able to tell they looked like they were alloy and had a rear mount sump (good for r series crossmembers?)
and a quick internet search seemed to tell me the 2004 model 3.5 is 250hp. so it might have a bit of power and potential for more.
These engines i think are found in holden rodeo's here so there would be a few lying around with readily available parts one would assume.
So has anyone thought of this engine as a possible choice for their baby?
barnsey
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 01:15
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Don't think anyone has decided to use it. That engine could be a variant of the new Alloytec engine by Holden, considering Isuzu had a model like it in some of its cars.
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Location:
Ulladulla
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 03:37
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Saw one stripped at the engine shop on Fri
6 bolt Mains
Quad direct actuation cams on 4 valve heads driven by a toothed belt
Seperate (not siamesed) inlet and exhaust ports
All alloy
Looks pretty good
Check with an engineer/RTA first. 3.5 may be a bit big for the 40
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 09:13
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wouldnt it be better to get a bombadore buick 3.8 v6 with 170hp. thats wot i reckon anyway. i wanna do that conversion into my ra40 celica one day.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 10:27
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| brett_celicacoupe wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 17:13 |
wouldnt it be better to get a bombadore buick 3.8 v6 with 170hp.
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No, it wouldn't. It'd be worse, a lot worse. That Buick V6 is cheap, and you get what you pay for. The Isuzu is a much better engine.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 10:36
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how much could you pick one of thees isuzu V6s up for?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 11:52
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| brett_celicacoupe wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 19:13 |
wouldnt it be better to get a bombadore buick 3.8 v6 with 170hp.
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Buick V6: all iron, 3.8L, 170hp.
Isuzu V6: all alloy, 3.5L, 250hp.
Yes, the Buick engine is clearly better.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:01
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well i asked them today what the engine was worth and bearing in mind this was the most expensive place i went to to price diff components (340 for axles and housing alone) they quoted me 3500 dollars its a 2000 model by what i read, one assumes that you would be able to find one a fair bit cheaper than their rip off prices however.
hmmm definately an intreaging engine choice. not overly large capacity, light fair amount of horespower to play with stock...
yeah obviously there is that whole engineer thing but i'm just throwing up ideas beyond 1g's.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:04
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$3500, is that all? I'd be expecting more.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:17
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argh i almost cringed when they mentioned that price, please tell me you are being sarcastic.
if that's the case then i would be back to the whole 1uz thought i can't get out of my head.
dang it almost seemed too good being a v6 rear wheel drive configured rear oil sump mount alloy everything reasonably powerful engine.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:20
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Go price a 2000+ 1UZ and it'll seem a little better 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:30
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hmmm good point.
i was thinking 92 model 1uz's
do you know how far back does the isuzu engine goes where it might get a bit cheaper?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:33
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It's not that old an engine, you'd probably only be able to go 1/2 years beyond that if any.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 21:05
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 00:36 |
| barned01 wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 00:01 |
well i asked them today what the engine was worth and bearing in mind this was the most expensive place i went to to price diff components (340 for axles and housing alone) they quoted me 3500 dollars its a 2000 model by what i read, one assumes that you would be able to find one a fair bit cheaper than their rip off prices however.
hmmm definately an intreaging engine choice. not overly large capacity, light fair amount of horespower to play with stock...
yeah obviously there is that whole engineer thing but i'm just throwing up ideas beyond 1g's.
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if thats a hilux diff, consider that cheap. Try about $750 for a complete diff at a normal wreckers! Though, i did see a hiace one for $100 in the paper a few weeks ago...
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I paid $150 for my complete hilux diff 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 23:17
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Last time I priced Hilux diffs they were in the $100-200 range. I guess it pays to shop around!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Mon, 06 September 2004 23:36
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 11:15 |
Don't think anyone has decided to use it. That engine could be a variant of the new Alloytec engine by Holden, considering Isuzu had a model like it in some of its cars.
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Nope the Allotec is a NEW engine, it is an Isuzu one.
Would be an interesting swasp ,but the wiring would be fun !!!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 00:56
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My parents had a new 3.5ltr V6 Rodeo 5spd, it went alright!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 01:05
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 07:36 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 11:15 |
Don't think anyone has decided to use it. That engine could be a variant of the new Alloytec engine by Holden, considering Isuzu had a model like it in some of its cars.
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Nope the Allotec is a NEW engine, it is an Isuzu one.
Would be an interesting swasp ,but the wiring would be fun !!!!
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I follow you, but the Alloytec started from the same platform as an existing engine, i.e. it's not brand spankers in every way?
Bah, stupid question mark, that was a QUESTION, I'm asking something 
[Updated on: Tue, 07 September 2004 01:35]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 01:31
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| rvrolla wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 10:56 |
My parents had a new 3.5ltr V6 Rodeo 5spd, it went alright!!
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i went for my driving test in the wet in one of these with an aftermarket exhaust...needless to say it was quite an ordeal trying to keep the thing straight off the line!
But..i passed 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 01:35
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Post above edited to reflect the fact I was asking a question 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 02:54
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 11:05 |
I follow you, but the Alloytec started from the same platform as an existing engine, i.e. it's not brand spankers in every way?
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The Alloytec started from scratch as a Global engine and was designed in the states with engineers from Australia, so whilst designed as a FWD as the main intent, the RWD requirements were built in as well.
It will/is going/is in a whole range of GM cars (Cadillac, SAAB etc) as well as outside customers such as Alfa, and ranges in capacity from 2.8 to 3.8, and also has a TT planned for alfa.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 02:55
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Fair enough, good thing you're here, because there is a lot of stuff flying out there about it.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 04:17
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| Quote: |
Buick V6: all iron, 3.8L, 170hp.
Isuzu V6: all alloy, 3.5L, 250hp.
Yes, the Buick engine is clearly better.
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well im convinced, if i were to get a adaptor plate for a buick v6 to w50 celica box, would the isuzu bolt up to where the bombadore went. saying it in a different way, could you bolt a isuzu v6 into a vn comodore to replace a buick v6? seems good if that was to work, good new reliable powerful engine in a old style rarer ra40 celica. the reason i like my ra40 is because it is not common. every man and his dog has a commodore, corrola, lexcen or a pulsar, but not very many people have a ra40 which makes them unique 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 07:09
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| brett_celicacoupe wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 14:17 |
| Quote: |
Buick V6: all iron, 3.8L, 170hp.
Isuzu V6: all alloy, 3.5L, 250hp.
Yes, the Buick engine is clearly better.
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well im convinced, if i were to get a adaptor plate for a buick v6 to w50 celica box, would the isuzu bolt up to where the bombadore went. saying it in a different way, could you bolt a isuzu v6 into a vn comodore to replace a buick v6?
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In a word, probably not. From my understanding, they are completely different engines. Happy to be proven wrong though.
Allotec - developed by GM and GMH in America
Isuzu - developed by Isuzu in Asia.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Tue, 07 September 2004 08:02
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This has been bugging me all day GM went out, and designed from the ground up, an entirely new family of engines, even though they already had a variant of an all alloy, quad-cam 4 valves/cyl at their disposal?
Are you positive that GM didn't just re-develop the engine for use in different vehicles and produce the 3.6l variant?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Thu, 09 September 2004 13:12
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I'll check that for you Nathan, but don't forget, the engine has been designed to be a "Global" engine taht has more than one capacity, FWD/RWD/AWD capability, variable intake, variable cam timing etc and this may not have been achievable with the Isuzu engine.
I'll ask at work tomorrow
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Thu, 09 September 2004 13:35
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Havent been active on these boards for a while.. 
Been working at a holden dealership for 3months now..
The Alloytec is a brand new motor not a re construction from anything..
the Rodeo V6 in the RA Rodeo is only rated @ 153kw
The 3.5lt V6 first came out in early rodeo's 1993 ish by memeory..
The alloytec is 175kw in the base version and 190kw in the SV6/Calais/Statesman most of you would of seen the adverts..
And fyi.. the VY 3.8lt V6 is not a buick.. only buicks where the vn.. direct copy.. its taken them 15-16years to master that engine and the last of the 3.8lt v6 is very smooth.. and quite powerful for a every day run of the mill family car @ 160ish KW.
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Location:
Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Thu, 09 September 2004 13:37
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Also the Isuzu 3.5lt Quad Cam v6 and the Alloytec 3.6lt quad cam v6 are not in anyway related..
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 00:54
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 09 September 2004 21:12 |
I'll check that for you Nathan, but don't forget, the engine has been designed to be a "Global" engine taht has more than one capacity, FWD/RWD/AWD capability, variable intake, variable cam timing etc and this may not have been achievable with the Isuzu engine.
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Thanks Michael. I wholeheartedly get what you mean, when I first read about it, it was in a magazine when Isuzu released some weird looking concept car, I'll have to dig it up and give them shit if you can confirm otherwise
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 08:38
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so then knowing that the alloytec's are lighter than the ecotec's and we all know alloytec's will get an obscene amount of aftermarket bits made for them, how much are these enngines worth to mate up to the mighty RA40 (I can't believe i just asked that considering i shuddered at the thought of the isuzu at $3500)
this is a pipe dream for the moment cos these engines wouldn't be available on the crashed cheap market for a while.
are they lighter than the isuzu 3.5 and 1uz?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 10:08
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Considering this engine is brand-spanking new and most people here have never even laid eyes on one, you're unlikely to get definite answers to your questions. However, it's likely the Alloytec engine will be considerably more compact than the old Buick-derived V6, especially width-wise. The Buick engine was originally a cut-down V8 which is why it has a 90-degree vee (this is also one reason why it was so damn rough), but the new engine was designed from the ground up as a 6 cylinder engine so it has a 60 degree vee (the ideal angle for a V6).
So, if the old engine fits, the new one will fit even easier. You will of course need custom engine mounts, a custom bellhousing to suit a Toyota 5-speed (which is probably in development already), and possibly sump modifications, but this is to be expected with an engine conversion of this type.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 10:10
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How wide are the heads on an Alloytec though? The Ecotec wasn't too wide cos there was nothing to the heads.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 10:31
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That's a good point, but I can't imagine it being any wider than a 1UZ and we all know they fit in a Celica.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 10:35
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| Quote: |
You will of course need custom engine mounts, a custom bellhousing to suit a Toyota 5-speed (which is probably in development already), and possibly sump modifications, but this is to be expected with an engine conversion of this type.
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my boss bought an adaptor plate or bell housing for a buick to celica 5sp (dunno where from?). he has that in his dato dual cab .
would the old ra40 5 speed box handle this? coz my boss is on his 3rd box.
and what are the chances of this being engineer certified?
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Location:
Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 13:44
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| barned01 wrote on Fri, 10 September 2004 18:38 |
so then knowing that the alloytec's are lighter than the ecotec's and we all know alloytec's will get an obscene amount of aftermarket bits made for them, how much are these enngines worth to mate up to the mighty RA40 (I can't believe i just asked that considering i shuddered at the thought of the isuzu at $3500)
this is a pipe dream for the moment cos these engines wouldn't be available on the crashed cheap market for a while.
are they lighter than the isuzu 3.5 and 1uz?
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Ive driven one .. nothing fantastic.. but a improvement to the Ecotec motor..
The engine is wider then the in V aspect then the Ecotec V6.
The old buick v6 was from the 60's as a FWD Carbed engine.. dont know where you got V8 from Norbie altough add another 2cyl on each bank and you would be close.
I dont think there will be a "HUGE" hype over the new motor.. its great but the add does over exxagerate it..
Another thing you people may not know is that they have a remote oil filter that its up along side of the LHR bank at the front.
hope those pictures work.
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Location:
Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Fri, 10 September 2004 13:56
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One of the heads..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Sat, 11 September 2004 08:12
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| Mx62 wrote on Fri, 10 September 2004 23:44 |
The old buick v6 was from the 60's as a FWD Carbed engine.. dont know where you got V8 from Norbie altough add another 2cyl on each bank and you would be close.
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Apparrently you missed the part where I said "cut down V8".  In case that wasn't clear enough, it was based on an old Buick V8 but they lopped off 2 cylinders to make a V6.
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Location:
Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Sat, 11 September 2004 10:15
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No your wrong..
the motor has always been a V6. a FWD 60's v6 carby motor.. not a v8.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Sat, 11 September 2004 11:25
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From this website (http://members2.easyspace.com/hotholdens/tech/v6hi st.html):
"The venerable Buick 3.8 V6 has had a long and fairly illustrious career, powering many Buicks, and other GM vehicles over the past 30 years. The original design for the V6 started in the early 60s when Buick created a V6 based on the all aluminum 215 V8. The very first "Fireball" V6 displaced a whopping 198 cubic inches and shared tooling with the 215 V8. In 1963, the bore was increased to be the same as the 340 V8, which made displacement 225 cubic inches, where it stayed until 1967. Since the V6 had the same bore as the 340 V8 it could be produced on the same assembly line."
It would appear that the original engine was based on the Buick 215 V8, with 2 cylinders lopped off and bored. In the 60's this engine was used in RWD configuration, and it was only in the mid 70's that there was rekindled interest in this rattly old piece of shit.
Holden discovered this turd of a motor, polished it and sent it on to the masses so that every 18 year old can buy a VN and pretend to drive a V8 Supercar.
Roar Holden p0waH!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Sat, 11 September 2004 15:15
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| gianttomato wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 21:25 |
it was only in the mid 70's that there was rekindled interest in this rattly old piece of shit.
Holden discovered this turd of a motor, polished it and sent it on to the masses so that every 18 year old can buy a VN and pretend to drive a V8 Supercar.
Roar Holden p0waH!
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PML funniest shit i've read all day!!!
as for original question, who gives a shit about the epinons of all these car nerds (myself included ) just do it it'll be better than stock and individual to boot!
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Sat, 11 September 2004 21:10
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You'll find the original Buick V8 design was sold to rover for a few hundred dollars because they couldn't make it work. They had cooling and subsequently fuel vapourisation issues. It was redesigned and put into rover sedans, land and range rovers right up till they went to the new 4.6.
I've seen the Rover V8 and Buick V6 next to each other and if they arent from the same broken mold then GT's my long lost wife.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: isuzu 3.5 V6 into celica RA40
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Sat, 11 September 2004 22:06
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| Norbie wrote on Fri, 10 September 2004 20:08 |
So, if the old engine fits, the new one will fit even easier. You will of course need custom engine mounts, a custom bellhousing to suit a Toyota 5-speed (which is probably in development already), and possibly sump modifications, but this is to be expected with an engine conversion of this type.
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I'll get some rough dimensions from work during the week.
I also have the bellhousing drawing for the six speed box and ratios data (it is a D173 made by Aisin as used by GM in other models) if anyone needs some date if they seriously want to make an adaptor
Cheers
Michael B
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