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fade-e
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locker VS lsd Sat, 11 September 2004 04:52 Go to next message

whqat diff type[ 62 vote(s) ]
1.lsd 54 / 87%
2.locker 8 / 13%

ok guys i wanna know what i should get for my diff preference. i want to get 200rwkw for my '22 and iv been looking at the runs and stuff like that and want to know what diff to get, either lsd or locker

i see all the runs and iv noticeed all those with the lsd get sideways easy and hard, and from driving a locker before although it does angle out it is alot bettter i felt for the runs.

what do you people suggest? the polls up top and would appreciate a reasoning behind you choice please...

thanks heaps

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towe_001
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Re: locker VS lsd Sat, 11 September 2004 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What type of locker? Full time lock or a Detroit or an ARB locker?
A locked diff tends to be harder on the tires. When locked up in the case of the ARB cause its an open wheeler when unlocked.
But if it was me i'd go for the ARB locker. Locked diff when i need it and an open wheeler when i don't.
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ae95
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Re: locker VS lsd Sat, 11 September 2004 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lsd for sure
lockers are a pain in the arse
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fade-e
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Re: locker VS lsd Sat, 11 September 2004 05:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
towe_001 wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 15:16

What type of locker? Full time lock or a Detroit or an ARB locker?
A locked diff tends to be harder on the tires. When locked up in the case of the ARB cause its an open wheeler when unlocked.
But if it was me i'd go for the ARB locker. Locked diff when i need it and an open wheeler when i don't.



i was contemplating the toyota e-locker or air locker... mopre towards e-locker
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no_tofu_speed
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Jab what?!!?!
Re: locker VS lsd Sat, 11 September 2004 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Confused
Lockers still confuse me lol....
I just thought it was a home job for those who dont wanna buy an LSD.
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SillyCar88
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Re: locker VS lsd Sat, 11 September 2004 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I found locked diffs or spools to be a little more viscious than an LSD, it depends on the use I guess, I've found just from mates cars that lockers are more suited for drag, because they pretty much grip (depending on settup) with the right revs or if not just let loose with both wheels, dunno this is just my observation.
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slydar
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
im actually in the U.S and bought a full spool for my T series thats going into my sprinter when i get back.

the sprinter is for sprints/drift/hill climbs/fast road driving/street.

i only ever plan to run upto a 185 so i think i can get away with it on the street.

theres alot of nay sayers out there, but also alot of people who swear by them, and plenty of evidence to show they work in drag and on the track.

theyre beautifully simple, and alot cheaper than an lsd centre.

a compromise definately, but i really WANT this one to be compromised. itll be a terrible road car, but alot of fun.

i just realised i added nothing to this discussion. ohwell, im tired its late and im on holiday.

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AE86slut
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If you are mainly interested in drag racing, save your dough and just weld it or put a spool in it if you want to get a bit fancy.
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ae86drift
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mechanical LSD all the way baby!

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7M-Brisbane
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
My #1 Project is copping an LSD simply because I found one that would bolt straight in. If I hadn't been able to source one I'd have had no hesitation sourcing a spool for it.

Probably not ideal for a daily driver, though... you've been warned Smile
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V8_MA61
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nobody has sugested the CIG-Locker? Very Happy
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fade-e
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OK then can i put this forward and get responces please... what lockers are available?

- you got your weld Rolling Eyes
- e-locker
- air locker
- CIG-locker

what else, i know it depends on the diff i get but the type of locker i choose (if i go that way) will determine the diff and ratio...
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V8_MA61
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fade-e wrote on Mon, 13 September 2004 20:45

OK then can i put this forward and get responces please... what lockers are available?

- you got your weld Rolling Eyes
- e-locker
- air locker
- CIG-locker

what else, i know it depends on the diff i get but the type of locker i choose (if i go that way) will determine the diff and ratio...


Laughing hehe CIG is a brand of welder my friend Wink
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djbourboncan
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mini-spool if you are serious about drag-racing

lsd if you want to drive it on the road

welded, or full time lockers will skip the ass end out around corners as the outside rear wheel is spinning the same amount as the inside wheel....not very good if you want to drive on a wet road...
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Norbie
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Locked diffs are also awesome for breaking axles and other drivetrain components. Oh yeah and the cops will spot you from a mile away as you hop and chirp around a corner... defect time!

Definitely not recommended for something you drive on the street, but for purely track use they can be a good thing.
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CLG
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lockers are a head fuck, get an LSD.
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Special Ed
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Re: locker VS lsd Mon, 13 September 2004 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lockers are not illegal either - not directly anyway. IF you hear of people being defected for having one, it is more likely the type of driving that lockers encourage that is the problem.

A decent lsd will "scratch" around corners too.
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TheStitt
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mechanical LSD.

My true trak is awsome. It does skip around corners though no where near as harsh as a locker. It grips up really hard and I have never had it fail. For the street it is still pretty tuff to drive. The wet is an issue.

Cops can't hear me coming though so its good, plus it gets the power down
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Simon-AE86
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Special Ed wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 09:00

Lockers are not illegal either - not directly anyway. IF you hear of people being defected for having one, it is more likely the type of driving that lockers encourage that is the problem.

A decent lsd will "scratch" around corners too.


NOT illegal? i dont think so mate. Not in SA anyway. RTA know what to look for and if they spot a locked diff they WILL further defect the car during an inspection.

Lockers are illegal for a reason, they change the car's behaviour on the road, thewy understeer like hell and then oversteer like hell. thats fine for you and me who can predeict and control that behaviour but what about general people who have no clue?

The only lockers that are legal are the type that lock hubs in 4wd's, since they are a commercial vehicle they come under different ruling and ADR's
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John K
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 03:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LSD Cool
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Norbie
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lockers can also cause damage to the road surface, which is another reason they're not street-legal.
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Special Ed
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Simon-AE86 wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 13:13

RTA know what to look for and if they spot a locked diff they WILL further defect the car during an inspection.



Thats just it, if they see you with one they will shit on you for everything else. But i have looked hard at regulations AND questioned NSW H'way cops, they cannot define why lockers are illegal nor what ADR or rule they are in breach of.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 September 2004 05:37]

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Cool1
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
To put you girls above right, lockers are not illegal! Lockers that are engaged on the street are illegal.
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Cyber-punk
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1 wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 20:47

To put you girls above right, lockers are not illegal! Lockers that are engaged on the street are illegal.



pure semantics Smile
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djbourboncan
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WHAT IS THIS CAR GOING TO BE USED FOR ????
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fade-e
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i had a welded locker in my current ta22 for a year untill rego came last time (still got the centre and another welded locker that came with the new one)

the car will be used for a bit of everything. im hoping to end up putting small supercharge, big turbo and NOS. it wil be road/runs car not track, so max boost and nos down track and min boost on roads Rolling Eyes

OR

if i dont add the NOS then ill do it for track.

either way im trying to know whether lock or lsd is preferred for that type of driving. im not worried bout the road. thats why i wanna know which to use and why.

i would assume lock cause of the simultaneous wheel spin, though when it gets loose its worse for recovery. am i right? wrong? and why?
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djbourboncan
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Re: locker VS lsd Tue, 14 September 2004 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockers are easier to control as they always act up the same way and dont pull to one side like a LSD does
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Norbie
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Re: locker VS lsd Wed, 15 September 2004 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've never had an LSD pull to one side?
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djbourboncan
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Re: locker VS lsd Wed, 15 September 2004 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ahhh cmon Shocked , you know how a lsd works its dosnt engage each wheel at exactly the same time
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MR 1JZ
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Re: locker VS lsd Wed, 15 September 2004 02:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A two way Cusco, TRD, Nismo, etc, etc behaves in the exact same way as a locker diff as they allow you to steer using the rear end of the car, my old VK had a Cig locker which made it damn near impossible to drive in the wet and my mum nearly stacked the car taking it too the shops one day...

I wouldnt reccomend getting a locker/minispool/two way for street driving becuase come rain or shine you will stack your car... Confused
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st184 sillycar
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Re: locker VS lsd Wed, 15 September 2004 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No way would I consider a locked diff for street use - unless it's a switchable diff-lock. That'd be ace, cos locked diffs are grouse for drag, drift and race. V8-Supercars use locked diffs, and they seem to get around corners o.k.
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rvrolla
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Re: locker VS lsd Thu, 16 September 2004 05:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
st184 sillycar wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 13:58

No way would I consider a locked diff for street use - unless it's a switchable diff-lock. That'd be ace, cos locked diffs are grouse for drag, drift and race. V8-Supercars use locked diffs, and they seem to get around corners o.k.


ACE & GROUSE? Whoa, thats heavy!
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st184 sillycar
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Re: locker VS lsd Thu, 16 September 2004 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah yeah!

GOOD lsd's and locker's are like, way totally rad dude. They're like umm, BOONTAH!!

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oldcorollas
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Re: locker VS lsd Fri, 17 September 2004 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Special Ed wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 15:11

[Thats just it, if they see you with one they will shit on you for everything else. But i have looked hard at regulations AND questioned NSW H'way cops, they cannot define why lockers are illegal nor what ADR or rule they are in breach of.



2 things.

it is illegal to break traction in your car. simply as that. there is some leeway for accidental situations, but sustained or deliberate loss of traction is what you get fined for. turning with a locker is.. by definition... sustained and deliberate loss of traction!

also, code of practice for light vehicle modification states
that vehicle must be driveable by someone of AVERAGE driving ability.... and we all know there are some pretty bloody average drivers out there Wink. trying to argue in court that a locker is fine for these people is... pointless..

if a random person jumps in your car (say, to drive you to hospital) then they will most likely not expect the diff to be locked OR have any idea why the car doesn't turn.. and then suddenly spins out.. is just not safe for 'safe driving'...

on the track is different, but a suburb is NOT a track.
Cya, Stewart
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oldcorollas
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Re: locker VS lsd Fri, 17 September 2004 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djbourboncan wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 11:21

ahhh cmon Shocked , you know how a lsd works its dosnt engage each wheel at exactly the same time


actually Wink i think i did some equations for this in a older thread.

the reason it pulls to one side is one wheel gets more traction.
this occurs because (with live axle) the diff housing is being rotated by the driveshaft, causing one wheel to be pushed into the ground, and one wheel to be lifted off. if the LSD does it's job, neither wheel breaks traction, and one wheel pushes that side of the car more, and causes the car to rotate (pull to one side)

with IRS, the diff centre is attached to car, so it's only the reactionary forces between engine and engine mounts that rotates the car. pulling to one side is much less likely with IRS.

compare to a live axle locker.... same thing happens. one wheel lifts, one pushes into ground BUT if one wheel lifts and starts spinning (reducing overall traction) then more force is transferred to the wheel that hasn't slipped yet, and this can cause it to slip as well.... so if you hit a bump on one side, you could suddenly lose traction on both sides!!!

my own opinion is that a torsen IRS is pretty good Wink

Cya, Stewart
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Norbie
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Re: locker VS lsd Fri, 17 September 2004 05:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:19

my own opinion is that a torsen IRS is pretty good Wink

That's what I have, and IMO it rawks. Traction aplenty and as I said earlier I've never had it pull to one side.
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ke382TG
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Re: locker VS lsd Fri, 17 September 2004 05:30 Go to previous message
I would agree with Norbie, my LSD doesn't pull to one side when it breaks traction. I can go straight up the road both wheels spinning, a tweak of the steering wheel and sideways she goes Very Happy . Stewarts explanation of the live axle stepping out easier makes sense too.

My LSD is set pretty tight i.e. the wheels skip/chirp/scratch when you turn a tight corner (this is how I asked for it from the diff guy). No problem to drive though, the GF drove it in the rain last weekend without incident, on some dodgy country roads that were wet (even a short stretch of dirt Mad ).

For one short stint prior to my LSD the car had a welded locker (RA23 diff), it broke 4 axles, 2 at Eastern Creek (the axles had about 4 hours of driving on them) and then a new set were fitted and they lasted about 3 hours with no burnouts or flat changing etc (I am not really into that stuff).

Since the new diff was fitted not a problem at all.
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