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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 06:58
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I know this was covered a little in the last thread, but wanted to specifically revive peopples thoughts on fuses and circuit breakers.
shane - you were using those ceramic fuses? ive yet to find much info about their availability here.
i have found ANL blade fuses though - for use with big audio systems. they come rated to 300A and have sexy fuse holders and terminals:
ive also found some circuit breakers that will do up to 200A.
I think ill run 2 separate cables up to the front. one exclusively for the starter, and the other to a distribution block. the one to the starter ill have one of those ANL fuses, the other cable to be run off a circuit breaker.
both of these would go through a hella battery isolator switch:
oh, on that note, with respect to CAMS regulations, is there a specific location one must have the battery isolation switch? i was thinking of mounting it on the rear interior trim under the rear window - however, is it written anywhere that it should be more accessible by the driver or by officials?
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 07:38
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i think the isolator needs to be anywhere
just marked with the lightning bolt sticker
ya dig?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 10:43
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shane - are these ANL blade fuse ok to use in the general eiring system? or am i better to hunt down those ceramic ones?
ae86 - i dig 
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 10:47
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Yep the Blade fuses will be fine. The ceramic fuses we use seem to be hard to find unless your in the auto elctrical area.
I think the only reason we use the ceramic ones is because they are easy to mount/use.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:24
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ed - keep me in touch. I need to get my hands on all the same parts as you
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:36
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no probs...
if i get some gear from the states (i love ebay) would you like me to get 2 of everything? shipping should be SFA, and if we go halves in it, should be SFA/2 each 
it seems i can get most stuff off one guy only, so thats all good.
ill be sourcing cable here of course.
basically ill be going:
battery +ve --> hella kill switch --> slpit into 2 @ dist block
cable 1 then goes --> 300A blade fuse and holder --> starter motor
cable 2 then goes --> 150A cicuit breaker --> engine bay --> distribution block
battey -ve --> cable to chasis rail --> chasis rail (engine bay) to distribution block
so id be getting:
1x kill switch
1x 1 into 2 0GA dist block
1x 300A ANL fuse
1x ANL fuse holder, single 0GA in and out fittings
1x 150A circuit breaker
2x 1 into 4 distribution blocks
ill get price and get back to ye?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:42
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I've set mine up as follows:
- battery
- circuit breaker
- uber-cable to starter
- normal cable from starter to distribution point (in engine bay)
- everything else from there
This acheives the same thing you're doing, but it seems simpler?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:44
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that dist block... is that 1x 0g into 2x 0g?
and yeah, that setup sounds GOOD. what sort of eta are you looking at?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:45
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*points at what norbie said*
something else for us to consider
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:55
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| Norbie wrote on Mon, 13 September 2004 22:42 |
I've set mine up as follows:
- battery
- circuit breaker
- uber-cable to starter
- normal cable from starter to distribution point (in engine bay)
- everything else from there
This acheives the same thing you're doing, but it seems simpler?
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norbs - the only difference is: youre not running a kill switch, and id like to have each cable thats running to the bay running on an individual fusable circuit (hence fuse + circuit breaker).
youve also forgotten to mention the earth strap and earth dist block.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 12:58
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Yeah I considered using a kill switch, but I just couldn't be arsed at the time. Easy enough to add later if I decide to.
Why have separate fuses though? The purpose of the circuit breaker/fuse is to protect you if the battery cable shorts out somewhere. Once you get to the distro point you've got the fusible link that came with the car.
Yes of course there is the earth strap (I thought that went without saying), but what's this about an earth distribution block?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 13:09
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sure, i could fuse both cables together with one big ass fuse at the battery, but id prefer to have the starter on its own circuit with a dedicated 300A fuse. everything else im happy to run off a circuit breaker.
theyre two distinct circuits, and i prefer to fuse them seperately.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 13:13
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oh, as for earth dist block - im just being anal. ive got a few earth wires from bits in the bay, and i hate them just dangling everywhere and randomly bolted to the chasis/panels. i like brining eveverything together in a nice neat, orderd fashion
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 14:50
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greg, you want to go 'halvesies' on a 15m length of 0GA Cable from Matsons:
http://www.matson.com.au/index.html
local to me, i can go shopping at lunch time
they also have battery boots, earth straps, and terminals etc
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 14:57
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hell yes!
the one thing I'm hugely lacking is time to go shopping for all these little things
I'll offer you much many love (and expenses of course)
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 15:09
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kool
im just trying to sort out distribution block n shit at the moment. the cable is the easy bit 
you want a funky fuse holder with LED volt display? or just generic normal looking stuff?
also, i can understand 0GA to the starter (600A peak, 400A continuous!), but 4GA can hold 110A continuous, so im thinking about that should be more than adq for the acc circuit. considering id only run a 120A circuit breaker on that circuit anyway i think, 4GA seems plenty!
thoughts?
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Location:
Vic, AU
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 21:47
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Nah, that's a big no-no... Common rule of thumb, fuse rating < wire rating.
If your wire can only take a comfortable power rating of 110A, then you want a fuse of 100A.. Otherwise the fuse won't blow before the wire fries itself and you'll have a nice interior fire.
Also, I'm PRETTY sure that the kill switch has to be external.. Otherwise the officials have to enter the car before turning the power off, can be considered dangerous. If the batteries going in the boot, just mount it on one of the rear panels. And yeah, as said, it needs a nice bright label telling everyone where it is.
[Updated on: Mon, 13 September 2004 21:47]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 22:44
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yeah, if you chedck my previous thread on this, I decided on 0g to starter, and 4g to everything else - so that's perfect.
although 7m each seems excessive? or is 15m a standard size?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 13 September 2004 23:25
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Hey if you are ordering that stuff from ebay can you let me know a price and maybe we can go 3rds in postage?
Thanks
Joel
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Tue, 14 September 2004 00:09
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 00:20 |
greg, you want to go 'halvesies' on a 15m length of 0GA Cable from Matsons:
http://www.matson.com.au/index.html
local to me, i can go shopping at lunch time
they also have battery boots, earth straps, and terminals etc
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How much do they slug you for 0 guage there? I wouldn't pay more than $8 a meter.
Also the distribution blocks you want would be StingerDistro Blocks
STEE0 (gold) / STEE0PT (platinum): 1/0 gauge, 3-way “T” block
OR
SDB034 (gold) / or SDB034PT (platinum): One 1/0 gauge input, three 4 gauge outputs.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Tue, 14 September 2004 03:26
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ok - just to clarify, the 4GA is rated at 110A continuous, and around 160-180A peak, so i dont think a 120A breaker is risking anything too much. i can always get a 100A breaker though. i will look into it.
yep, getting some serious schwag off ebay. ill get a quote for all parts and shipping and let you guys know.
price of 0GA? im not sure - will go shopping and find out. and greg - yes, it comes in 15 and 30m lengths standard.
as for distro block - yep, its the stinger range ive been looking at. some other brand also. most of the big car audio gear is the same between brands anyway.
cheers
ed
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Tue, 14 September 2004 04:07
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Not 100% sure about "CAMS requirements" (don't have CAMS manual with me), but the kill switch usually is placed within reach of at least 1 crew member. In most race cars it's on the dash somewhere near the middle. In my car it's just under the glovebox, next to the center console. You don't need a sticker for this.
If you decide to run an external switch (pull cord that attaches to the switch inside cabin) then you can put a sticker on this, blue triangle (150mm sides) with red lighting bolt on it.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Tue, 14 September 2004 05:27
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ed remind me ill bring my CAMS manual on friday
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Tue, 14 September 2004 07:01
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CAMS manual would be a good thing me thinks
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Location:
Vic, AU
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Tue, 14 September 2004 21:51
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 13:26 |
ok - just to clarify, the 4GA is rated at 110A continuous, and around 160-180A peak, so i dont think a 120A breaker is risking anything too much. i can always get a 100A breaker though. i will look into it.
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Yeah, sorry, my bad... Just checked it out and 4GA should take a max. fuse rating of 125A.
Check out the section on "Wire" and "Fuses" @ http://www.bcae1.com/
Very handy little site, for car audio and general auto electrics.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 04:51
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Ed, don't you think you are going way overboard with cable size?
Lets assume you draw 150Amps on start up (1.8kW Starter, which I believe would be bigger than yours)
Lets say you use 4 guage cable (0.00097 ohm/M)
Lets say you have 4 metres of cable.
Your volt drop will be
V=RI
V = 0.00097 x 4 x 150
V < 0.6 Volts
I wouldnt be worried about 0.6 volts.
Your connections are probably going to have that much volt drop unless you are able to get them perfect.
I also wouldnt be worried about the current draw.
Its only going to be on for a few secs at a time, and thats not enough time for the cable to heat up.
And once again, I'd be more worried about the connections not being perfect, and getting hotspots.
I plan to run with a single 4gauge, from battery to the starter.
It will also supply the distribution block as the starter basically kills every other circuit.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 07:45
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4GA is only rated 110A continuous, and 180ish peak
sure, runing current draw of a starter could only be 120amps (which itself is already over the continuous rating of 4GA cable) - but id love to see what the peak draw curent is on a statioanry starter motor (full load, zero rpm!) i suspect youll find its WWAAAYYY over 180 or even 200Amps...
sure, as is always the case, 4GA would properly suffice, but its not what it was designed for.
on the other hand, 0GA is way overkill (400A continuous, and 600A peak) but ive not found any readily available 2GA - which would be far more appropriate.
thoughts??
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 08:00
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the more i look at it, the the more 2GA is the 'go'....
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 14:26
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if you can find 2g, great!
otherwise, perhaps a single 0g to the bay, splitting into 2x4g?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 14:33
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i found some 2GA
also found lugs and shit to go with them... am getting prices tomorrow
comes in 15m lengths... JOEL - do you want some of this?? greg and I are hardly going to use a whole 15m roll. probably only 5m each - great to split 3 ways 
the 4GA stuff we can get from jaycar by the M for about $4.75 per/m
what kind of fuse holders and ist block do people want? cheap and functional? a little bit flashy? LEDs and Volt meters built in?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 23:05
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I dont understand why this is getting/is soo complicated.
put batter in boot.. run cable to start and run cable from starter to alt.
DONE
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 23:21
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LOL I agree! Cable, terminators, fuse/circuit breaker, DONE.
And buy all your gear from your local electrical supplier, what's all this about buying fancy bling components from the US? It's a battery FFS!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Wed, 15 September 2004 23:35
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exactly.. the postage is going to be as much as I piad for the whole thing.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 00:00
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hey ed_MA61 where can i get one of those circuit breakers? i would like one that runs about 150Amps or 200 would do too,
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 00:07
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I bought a circuit breaker almost exactly like that one for my battery relocation. I'm pretty sure I got all my stuff from this place:
AIM
24 Pradella St Darra QLD 4076
ph: (07) 3713 7700 Electric Cable & Wire--W'salers & Mfrs
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 01:20
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i found a 140Amp one at autobarn and repco, same product brand and all $10.99 cheaper at repco
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 04:35
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my local autobarn/repco didnt have circuit breakers
the local electronic supply and jaycar only have fuse blocks and distribution block up to 4GA
and its oh SOOOO complicated isnt it
good god, its a distribution block and two fuses!! wtf is the problem? do you really want a sulphuric acid bomb exploding inside the cabin of your car when you prang the fucker and earth a 2GA line in a crumpled mess?
its called proper design and safety measures.
you want to just 'whack it in the boot and run a cable', go right ahead. i dont.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 04:39
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and this isnt "bling" shit... this is the plain/functional end of the spectrum. you should see the bling shit that is available...
and the only reason ive turned to ebay is that i havent found a source of ANL fuse holders that accept 2GA cables. and frankly i dont have the time to go hunting around the city finding a place that does. ill get as much as i can locally, but be fucked wasting hours trying to get stuff that i can just paypal and get in the mail.
shopping at 2am is much easier for me at the moment.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 04:44
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yeah by why split it into two pieces.. and not just go from the starter to your dist block? fuses are irrelivant.. one fuse solves the hole ordeal.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 04:49
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simple - because it is two circuits.
two circuits = two fuses.
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Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:07
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I have been to Jaycar, Whitworth's boat supplies, Autoone and Repco. All have said a 300amp fuse is a total overkill. I bought my cable from Whitworths, don't know what the amp rating is, but guys are using it on diesel boat engine starters and V8 boat engine starters, so it must cut it. I compared this cable to the 4GA in Jaycar, and it is thicker, so it must be 2ga I guess, Whitworth call it 2B&S, but I have no idea WTF that means.
It is also tinned to prevent corrosion which is good, but at $10.90 a metre was probably an over kill. The untinned stuff is $6.90 a metre.
The bloke in Whitworths said all boat builders use 150amp fuses for their circuits, he didn't clarify though if that was for the engine circuit or for the accesories. And he laughed at the 300amp idea.
I am really confused now. The fact that Norbie's car hasn't burn't down says to me that 2ga may even be overkill.
I used to work in marine wholesaleing, supplying all the boat builders, and we only ever stocked 150amp fuses.
What do you guys think????
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:15
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most cable can obviously tolerate currents higher than their ratings for limited period of time. this doesnt mean that thyere 'supposed to'...
in my book, you buy the correct equipment for the correct job. and 4GA to the starter isnt it.
as for fusing - yeah 300A is overkill. 200 would probably be more likely for the intended purpose. but given the rating of the cable and battery, 300A isnt totally unreasonable.
120 is going on the acc circuit, and is again based on the cable rating.
were not talking about fusing the cable appropriately for the devices or the predicted current draw of normal operation. there are fuse boxes for these things
these fuses should be chosen according to the cable and battery rating, and theyre installed to prevent battery explosion/melt down in the even of a crash
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:18
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I always think its better to over-engineer than under-engineer.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:23
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wholesallers - theres only two locally around here. ones a fucktard, the other (john r turk) didnt have what i was after. im *literally* about to get of my butt and go to matsons for the cable and fitings... ill be asking there for further suggestions
fwiw: for the sake of a single length of cable and 1 extra fuse, id like to call it two circuits
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:40
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Put the fuse nearer to the battery on the main supply.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Thu, 16 September 2004 12:30
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okay well this is how i'm goin to do it:
i have the battery box set up and secured in place in the boot,
also in my car where the battery box is there is a vent that goes out the tail light (vented out side = legal),
i'm goin to run a single circuit breaker of 140AMPS, this is assuming that my car will only ever pull 130Amps b4 blowing the fuses in the engine bay, the 140Amp circuit breaker need to be with in 30cm of the battery it self so that it will set off b4 any damage is done.
cabling that i will be running is NARVA 245 power/starter cable its about the same as 4GA wire but is suppose to run higher amps if this fails i will just run another 8GA wire to lighten the load.
earthing i will be earthing this in the back of the car i there looks like some good spots on the back of the chasis, i'm looking at earthing a 4GA wire or the 245 depends what i feel like and also a another 8GA wire just to make sure i get a good clean earth, also goin to pick up some gold lugs or possibly brass but i will more then likely get the gold one from jaycar.
pricing:
circuit breaker : $30 (repco)
narva 245amps : $8.50/m (repco)
battery box : $13 (supercheap)
gold lugs 4GA : $7 (jaycar)
gold lugs 8GA : 2.50 (jaycar)
i also have some platum terminals they are about $20-30 depending on what out puts you want.
other useful things you might need is solder, and a "gas" soldering iron, i read that the best way to contact them is to heat up the whole terminal with the gas iron and then fill it up with solder and push the wire into it. forget crimping it.
i hope this helps someone out there i'll let you all know how it goes when i get to it. let me know also if you think in need to change anything.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Sat, 18 September 2004 05:45
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prices:
2GA cable (red) = $9.00/m
4GA cable (red) = $5.00/m
heavy duty crimp+solder terminals to suit 8mm or 10mm or 12mm threaded fittings - $2.20ea
battery terminals - vary, depends what type you want.
2GA (balck) earth straps with battery fittings and terminals installed - depends on length: $8-$15
if bought locally - fuses are $13ea and fuse holders $50ea
yet to find local distribution blocks
yet to find local circuit breakers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Battery + Boot... What Hardware ??
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Mon, 14 March 2005 02:39
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guys iv been looking for this thread for a few days and thanks to CrUZsida iv got it now...
now im sorry to bring this thread to the top but ed_ma61 how did you go with all this stuff??????
what did you end up doing????
can you get these parts still or guide me to where i can get them from please?????
also i believe draven is in the same boat as me so if you can help us out it would be so much appreciated
thanks guys
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