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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Tue, 14 September 2004 07:36
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Hi there,
I have a 1982 Toyota Celica RA60 that has the following:
- 2 Ltr Carbie
- 21RC Motor
My engine has died on me, as the oil level was too low for too long, due to an inacurate dip stick I had. The car still goes, but I cannot push it over 2000 RPM, and I think the damage has something to do with the bearings within the engine, as it sounds rough.
I am considering putting in a re-conditioned engine, and was wondering:
- How much would one expect to pay for either a reconditioned or second hand engine?
- Can you install a different Celica Engine in this model, (ie an RA40 or the model above)?
Cheers.
R.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Tue, 14 September 2004 09:23
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An engine from an earlier Celica is not an option as this is technically illegal. Older engines had less strict emissions controls so you will have the greenies on your back.
We really need to know what you plan on doing with the car, how much money you have to spend and how mechanically skilled you are - although the fact that you ran your engine low on oil bothers me! In general though, the below should help:
Given the type of damage to the engine, I would suggest that a rebuild would be uneconomical. Your best bet would be a replacement engine, available from a damaged vehicle at a parts recycler near you!
The lovely (and traditionally inbred) wreckers will sell you an engine with a warranty of some description (a few months, normally) but you will also pay for the privelege. I haven't actally bought a 21RC before, but I'd suggest that they would want in the order of $400-500ish at an educated guess. Take that with a grain of salt, it's just a price that I feel would be fair and may bear no relation to the normal pound-me-in-the-ass wrecker pricing.
On top of the purchase you need to allow for labour costs (or DIY if you have the ability) which will probably equal the purchase price of the engine. Then allow about $300 for essential/servicing items (eg. cam belt, rear main seal, oil, oil filter, coolant, new spark plugs), along with an extra few hundred for miscellaneous things that WILL go wrong or be broken in the process of removal/installation.
Don't forget that you have to get the engine from the wreckers as well - some provide a delivery service (invariably at your cost), and some don't want to know anything about it...
You may fit an engine from the later Celica (RA65) without too many headaches, but there are extra difficulties associated with this and it is probably not worth the trouble/expense for the end result.
If you are after substantially increased performance you may wish to consider an engine conversion (1GGTE or 3SGTE would be my two picks) but each of these would be in the order of $7k done properly, and are really the realm of the competent DIYer.
There is a wealth of information on these forums regarding these swaps - particularly the 1GGTE which sems to be the easier of the two.
Hope this helps!
Leigh
[Updated on: Tue, 14 September 2004 09:26]
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Tue, 14 September 2004 11:54
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you can install a older motor BUT ONLY if you run it on LPG thats the rules so it runs cleaner emmisions
id stay away from a 18rg anyway you have to fab new mounts up and source a front sump from a corona, easier to install a newer motor and run on regular unleaded as johnny howard is taking the fuel tax exemption of LPG in a few years anyway so it wont be as cheap as it is now, for much longer
good luck
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Tue, 14 September 2004 12:13
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Almost every engine Toyota made was avaliable in the *A60 Celica/Supra/Carina in Japan. So anything will fit if you can find the parts.
If you want something other than a 21R-C (a conversion), I would surgest either a 18R-GEU or 22R-E. The 18R-GEU is of the same age and fitting for that car, I'm sure lots of RA60's in Japan had a 18R-GEU. You will need a computer to run it of some sort, the factory one, or maybe some other factory computer like a 4A-GE one could run it.
The 22R-E was in local cars, RA65 Celica and the odd Corona, so all parts are avaliable.
If I had a RA60, I would definitely use a 3T-GTE. The best engine for that car in factory fitment/ performace terms. Similar cars were used in world rally.
Maybe a 1G-GTE would be better value for money. 3S-GTE is also posiable.
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Wed, 15 September 2004 07:12
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Thanks heaps for your advice.
I recieved a call from a wreckers today, who had just recieved my motor, and was willing to part with it for $450. So your estimate was very accurate.
The dealer claims it has only done 140,000 kms which sounds sus, as it is a 20yr old car, and I am sure that these guys know how to adjust the milage in engines aswell as be an inbreed.
You also mentioned that something is almost certain to go wrong with buying just second hand engines. Like what kind of stuff?
I mean do you think they are a huge gamble?
The warranty is only for three months, which does not really sound very long at all.
I appreciate your posts!!!!
Regards...
Raynard.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Wed, 15 September 2004 09:12
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Glad my advice was of some help. But, you need to keep in mind one important thing. An engine that you buy second hand is the same age as the one you blew up, and no less likely to expire. A 3 month warranty is par for the course... it's not really a warranty in the traditional sense, but more of a 'turnkey' reassurance to get it in and running to prove they haven't sold you a dud motor. No different to buying a second hand car, really - you are warranted that it will be peachy when you get it, but if it breaks a few months later it's your problem, not the seller's. It is unreasonable to expect a longer warranty on a four-hundred-dollar engine that is already twenty years old.
With the problems I mentioned, I was more referring to installation problems. For example you might snap off a bolt, lose a part, find something else broken or that needs attention - issues like these are the ones people invariably come across.
Don't believe kilometres, believe condition. Get the wrecker to do a compression test on the engine (and provide the figures to you), make sure they're all even and they should also be around a certain figure but that differs for each engine and is probably not AS important as ensuring all cylinders are at least equal. The other things to check are the obvious ones:
* oil leaks are bad, mmkay?
* check the coolant outlets for corrosion - the inside of the motor will look the same!
* check the condition of the alternator belt etc, these show if it has been regularly maintained by a mechanic
* if it looks dodgy, it is!
Note that just because an engine looks pretty doesn't mean it's the right one for you. Many wreckers steam/pressure wash engines before delivery, so they may just have washed away any telltale signs. Have a close look at a few hard to get places, this might be a giveaway, but don't discriminate purely because of a little grime - it's twenty years old so a little is to be expected. Things like stains down the side of the block or the head are a good way to detect a long term oil leak.
Another thing that might be worthwhile is chekcing out the car it allegedly came from. Does it look well maintained or is it a bucket of bolts? Remember that cars in wreckers are there because they are wrecks - but you can always tell if someone cared about the car at least a little.
Depending on how much money is available, and how long you plan to keep the car, I reckon you're best getting a motor from a wreckers and slapping it straight in. Cheap, straightforward, and you've got a guarantee there won't be any major headaches with it.
[Updated on: Wed, 15 September 2004 09:17]
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: RA60....Advice on Installing a new Engine
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Thu, 16 September 2004 07:26
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Thankyou for your advice!
You have been EXTREMELY helpful!
Regards,
Raynard.
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