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I supported Toymods
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sydney.au
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August 2002
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AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Tue, 14 September 2004 14:11
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so bought an adaptor plate to fit my RWD bigport intake manifold to my new smallport head right? so ill be removign tvis and running it with the adaptor plate.
as we all know, the TVIS intake manifold has 8 small round holes for the tvis butterflies.
the question is, do you cut out the 8 'round holes' to be the same shape of the 4 'oval holes' bigport intake in the head ?
to improve flow into the engine??
thoughts?
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Toymods Social Secretary
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Sydney
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July 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Tue, 14 September 2004 14:14
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the witzl's thoughts = CONVERT the 100kW manifold to RWD.
Its really NOT that hard, nor expensive.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Tue, 14 September 2004 14:55
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well seeing as the RWD intake is bigger to begin with
and the adapter is dirt cheap
and i already own it
and i dont have to dodge welds or cut and shut (takes time)
and the bigger ports = more air = more power
although it is a good suggestion, i already have the parts and the manifold so why go cutting it up?
anyone else with an actual answer to my question?
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Location:
Terrigal
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May 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Tue, 14 September 2004 23:05
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I didn't think bigger ports always equaled more power. If you look at the gen 2 vs gen 3 3sgte engines, the gen 3 makes more power and smaller ports.
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Toymods Social Secretary
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Tue, 14 September 2004 23:31
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dude - despite what you have said, have you thought about this:
* larger ports going into smallport ports creates AIR TURBULENCE and DISTURBANCES, meaning that you would in fact be creating LESS power. I would put $50 on proving that too.
* getting my 100kW manifold cut'n'shut cost a massive $180. wow 
* internal volume of the RWD manifold is not really bigger, and even if it was, what benefit would that give?
Basically you are going to cause flow compression as the air volume is forced from a larger area into a smaller area, thus costing you free flow and subsequently power. The best way to OPTIMISE power is to minimise/remove all disturbances to air flow, hence the use of port matching manifolds and head porting!
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
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May 2002
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Toymods Social Secretary
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July 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 01:26
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ta bill 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 01:27
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Go with the small port head conversion - Bill's right in that they're too big hence why the TVIS is there for low rev application.
I thought the RWD big port is only used on later heads in 4AGTE applications only ... ?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 01:44
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Is anyone going to answer the question that ae86drift actually asked? I'm interested in hearing the answer, even if it's not the best way to do things.
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Toymods Social Secretary
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 02:02
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Well i can't answer because i have never, and will never use a bigport RWD manifold, unless i had a bigport head.
and guys only use these manifolds when they use a bigport head on 4agte;s.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 02:13
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| THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 12:02 |
Well i can't answer because i have never, and will never use a bigport RWD manifold, unless i had a bigport head.
and guys only use these manifolds when they use a bigport head on 4agte;s.
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The information is in the tech section of these forums - generally in the 4AGTE article which includes the reason why a bigport head was used.
From memory, it generally states that it is just a bit too big for N/A application however for 4AGTE purposes, it is ideal.
Bill's site also had some info on the flow characteristics of the bigport head under his 4AG article, in particular why TVIS is needed to restrict airflow as it is too much from the manifold.
Not sure why an adapter was made to put a RWD bigport head to a small port head however one would conclude that the previous owner didn't know how to cut n weld, put it on then found it didn't performed well hence sold the adapter for next to nothing ...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 02:24
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I thought T3 sold these adapter plates? Anyone know their reasoning behind making/selling them? Is it just because it's easier to use a bigport RWD manifold than modding a FWD smallport manifold?
Also, if the bigport heads are shite for NA applications, why is it that people put the bigport head/manifold on the smallport block? I thought this made quite a nice NA hybrid engine?
Sorry for the hijack 
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Location:
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 02:32
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| koen wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 12:24 |
Also, if the bigport heads are shite for NA applications, why is it that people put the bigport head/manifold on the smallport block? I thought this made quite a nice NA hybrid engine?
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You're forgetting the TVIS system ... up to a certain point, there isn't any problems as the TVIS compensates in the lower RPM range on a stock motor.
Once you start playing with it and go with bigger cams, there comes a point when you no longer need TVIS.
In Garth's case, there is no TVIS hence there won't be any butterflies to close off the intake, especially in the lower RPM range where it counts most.
Just cut n weld the small port manifold Garth - as Witzl said, it's cheaper and there's even a step by step instruction guide on these forums.
[Updated on: Wed, 15 September 2004 02:35]
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Toymods Social Secretary
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I supported Toymods
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 03:21
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| THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 09:31 |
dude - despite what you have said, have you thought about this:
* larger ports going into smallport ports creates AIR TURBULENCE and DISTURBANCES, meaning that you would in fact be creating LESS power. I would put $50 on proving that too.
* getting my 100kW manifold cut'n'shut cost a massive $180. wow
* internal volume of the RWD manifold is not really bigger, and even if it was, what benefit would that give?
Basically you are going to cause flow compression as the air volume is forced from a larger area into a smaller area, thus costing you free flow and subsequently power. The best way to OPTIMISE power is to minimise/remove all disturbances to air flow, hence the use of port matching manifolds and head porting!
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okay you kinda answered it here, TOO MUCH flow, created turbulence, thats what i was looking for. oK!
i ralise its cheap as chips karl-o, but its time i dont have to do it, the car is my daily and im flat chat with working atm so i or my mechanic dont have time (i also didnt wanna chop up my manifold, as ill be using it later on with my bigport again when thi engine goes to toda spec-c tuned engine and quad throttle bodies)
internal volume isnt bigger? yet you say it flow more air? into bigger ports?
| Bill Sherwood wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 10:51 |
| ae86drift wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 00:55 |
and the bigger ports = more air = more power
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Erm, NO.
They're too big to start with.
The small port head is by far the better one to have, and converting the FWD small port inlet manifold to RWD is also by far the better way to go.
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when i said big ports=more air i meant to put a questionmark there.  thanks bill, you're one of the people i wanted advise from. at this point i WILL NOT be using a smallport manifold as i already have the parts involed.
what is the DOWNFALL of using it? i know i will have no power under 4400 rpm now as the tvis is removed but i will have the same airflow going in. is this actually the case?
| Dodgy_Haro wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 12:13 |
The information is in the tech section of these forums - generally in the 4AGTE article which includes the reason why a bigport head was used.
From memory, it generally states that it is just a bit too big for N/A application however for 4AGTE purposes, it is ideal.
Bill's site also had some info on the flow characteristics of the bigport head under his 4AG article, in particular why TVIS is needed to restrict airflow as it is too much from the manifold.
Not sure why an adapter was made to put a RWD bigport head to a small port head however one would conclude that the previous owner didn't know how to cut n weld, put it on then found it didn't performed well hence sold the adapter for next to nothing ...
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i need to keep my intake intact for when i use it for my old bigport head again in my spare car. so i just dont wanna chop it. (also hard to find to boot) i also realise partly what i am sacrificing, i jus want clarification from bill or others wth much experience
the adapter is used for exactly as koen said. easy swapping of parts, not as you say "the previous owner didn't know how to cut n weld".
| koen wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 12:24 |
I thought T3 sold these adapter plates? Anyone know their reasoning behind making/selling them? Is it just because it's easier to use a bigport RWD manifold than modding a FWD smallport manifold?
Also, if the bigport heads are shite for NA applications, why is it that people put the bigport head/manifold on the smallport block? I thought this made quite a nice NA hybrid engine?
Sorry for the hijack
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http://www.technotoytuning.com/t3_site_pages/produ cts/port_adapter.html
yes thats where mine is from.
| Dodgy_Haro wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 12:32 |
You're forgetting the TVIS system ... up to a certain point, there isn't any problems as the TVIS compensates in the lower RPM range on a stock motor.
Once you start playing with it and go with bigger cams, there comes a point when you no longer need TVIS.
In Garth's case, there is no TVIS hence there won't be any butterflies to close off the intake, especially in the lower RPM range where it counts most.
Just cut n weld the small port manifold Garth - as Witzl said, it's cheaper and there's even a step by step instruction guide on these forums.
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once you surpass the cam profile that the stock ecu can handle, you also dont need tvis. at the moment i have std cam profiles so i will be losing a little power.
i understand why everyone says to go with smallport, i was simply asking with my current parts what i could do to improve airflow and restrict as much air turbulence as possible.
| koen wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 11:44 |
Is anyone going to answer the question that ae86drift actually asked? I'm interested in hearing the answer, even if it's not the best way to do things.
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bill has kinda answered it. any further comments on this billzill-o? ive read your site, but its not QUITE the info im after.
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Location:
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May 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 05:04
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you dont need to cut up your RWD bigport manifold at all. You get a smallport inlet manifold, chop both ends off, and swap them around. The RWD bigport manifold sits in the corner waiting for your other motor with bigport head.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 05:31
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Cool, thanks guys, clears shit up in my head a bit.
So what's the go with the bigport head + smallport block hybrid? I'm running a fairly tired 96kW bigport atm and i was thinking that a 7-rib smallport block and pistons, shaved and ported bigport head with bigish cams and god knows what computer would make for a nice street engine?
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I supported Toymods
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sydney.au
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 10:19
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| koen wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 15:31 |
Cool, thanks guys, clears shit up in my head a bit.
So what's the go with the bigport head + smallport block hybrid? I'm running a fairly tired 96kW bigport atm and i was thinking that a 7-rib smallport block and pistons, shaved and ported bigport head with bigish cams and god knows what computer would make for a nice street engine?
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have you got a factory loom?
if so get a power FC, cheap! and V easy!
at this stage ill keep the setup as i thought, with the adapter. :\
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 11:00
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at what stage(if ever) does the flow of the bigport become an asset in an n/a application?
garth, why dont you use the bigport head on the 7rib
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 11:16
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is the AE101 GZE a smallport head? im lead to believe it is. and if this is the case, i have a RWD bigport manifold on a smallport head. i have no adapter plate and no TVIS plate. the manifold bolted up no troubles. the ports are missmatched, but i think turbulence in a forced induction engine is less of a concern than in an NA engine. but if you want a quick slap on job the manifold bolts straight on no troubles.
i can organsie a pic of the inlet side of the head bare, and one with the manifold on if anyone wants. can you tell from that pic if its a small port head? if yes lemme know.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 11:23
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Yes AE101 GZE is smallport.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 11:27
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| ae95 wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 21:00 |
at what stage(if ever) does the flow of the bigport become an asset in an n/a application?
garth, why dont you use the bigport head on the 7rib
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coz the BP head is fucked.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 4A-GE TVIS Manifold onto AE92 4A-GE 'Smallport' Head
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Wed, 15 September 2004 11:33
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| monkeymajik wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 21:23 |
Yes AE101 GZE is smallport.
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well if thats the case, i have a bigport manifold on a smallport head and it bolted on with no adapter plate and has no air leaks like some people have suggested. not saying this is ideal for NA but it would work.
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