Author | Topic |
Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Location: Brisbane, QLD
Registered: February 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 08:20
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1. Triple core would probably work better than the old stocko, but not sure if its neeeded
2. From reading similar threads, it seems easier\better in the long run to used Aftermarket ECU's and getting them tuned by a competent tuner.
4. I'm almost certain the stock fuel pump wont be up to the task
5. Toyota dealerships are wankers
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 08:47
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1. Go the triple core. I have one and the engine still gets warm sometimes (eg under load for extended periods on a hot day). MA61's suffer from poor front end airflow thanks to the funky 80's style front end, so cooling will always be an issue when you have power.
2. Can't help you there - first thing I did was chuck the auto in the bin!
3. You can fit a massive cooler in the front of an MA61. My InterBrick(tm) squeezed in with no modifications once the aircon dryer and fan was out of the way.
4. Definitely replace the stock pump. I recommend a Walbro 255lph in-tank pump; 305rwhp on the dyno and it was definitely not leaning out (mixtures around 10:1). You can get them in a kit to suit an MA61 tank, it bolts straight in.
5. Haven't found any good dealers in Brisbane; I got my parts through a dealer at the GC. Can't remember exactly which one at the moment. See if you can find a chassis number from a JZX100, it will make life a lot easier. I had the foresight to take a photo of the build plate on my Aristo front cut, it's been used many times since!
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Location: Perth
Registered: August 2004
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 09:20
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LOL what he said!
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 09:56
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Hey thanks guys.
Sorry I wasn't to clear on question 2. I have ripped the auto out and I'm using a w58. What I want to know is how to go about tricking the computer so it won't go into limp mode. Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about this?
Its good to hear that the hybrid fits cause that was what I was considering buying.
I thought the new haltech's could control VVTi at least that is what it says here http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath =24_25&products_id=92&detail=true
has anyone had any experience using a E6X on a VVTi Engine?
I have an 84 so pretty sure thats internal pump. I will go with the walbro on your advice. Thanks
Stark you have a PM
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Location: Perth
Registered: August 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 10:15
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Ok back to question 2...
The Easiest way I think to get the ECU to run a manual box is to give 12v to the Neutral safty switch... So the ECU thinks its in neutral and will rev away... I have actuallyheard two stories regarding the fabled limp mode... that it will be reduced power etc... I have seen a few of these conversions now and havnt come across the problem personally...
As for the VVTi and the Haltech... well yeah I emailed tweakit about 6 months ago when i was ecu shopping and they just said yes yes yes it would run and so did haltech...
I then rang them and questioned further... There VVTi and VTEC control only controlls the VVT solenoid via an RPM/Load Switch...
This means that there is only a high/low setting.. This makes it unsuitable for our motors as the VVTi is run off 3 things
A Camshaft position sensor
A Solinoid
Oil Pressure
Unfortunately you cant just switch the vvti solinoid on at a certain point as it will rotate the camshaft a whole 60 degrees (Not good)
There are three options... Use your factory computer. Save for a Motec. Use the haltech and switch your vvti off...
Option three isnt as bad as you may think.. you still get most of the benefits of the later design being; new head design; higher compression ratio (The reason for the better torque) and the single turbo...
Will get those part numbers to ya
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 10:24
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Thanks stark that was what I was after. Looks like I will be using the factory computer until I can save up enough for the Motec. Unless anyone here would like to donate one to a worthy cause I will post a couple of pics up on my progress in the next couple of days.
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Location: Canberra
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 11:53
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Hiya buccy, I have done a 1JZ-GTE VVTi into an RA23 Celica. I also used a W58. So if there is anything you want to know, drop me a PM. Factory ECU is the way to go, as "most" aftermarket computers are only capable of switching the VVTi solenoid on or off at a given RPM setting. If you really want to increase power later, use an interceptor/aftermarket ECU to change fuel and ignition maps. I picked up the tacho signal from the igniter. Limp home mode has not been encountered. My only Dyno run, was to check air/fuel ratios at the top end. But she punched out 170Kw at the treads. I will have a run in 'Shootout mode" 24th October.
cheers Chuck.
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Location: Perth
Registered: October 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 12:15
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What everyone else has said above . And:
1. I'm 'getting-bye' on a stock (flushed) MA61 radiator with two 10" thermos and WatterWetter. OK if it's not Summer and you're not in traffic. But definitely not a long-term solution. I'm going tripple core (or something equally snazzy) within the next couple of months.
3. I'm using a generic 300x600x75 FMIC with no prob's. Only size issues will be the effect on where your IC piping is outed and where your battery is going to live.
4. Walbro internal 255 is just, damned perfect
Great pix - please keep 'em coming!
Justin
JZA61
with 'Old School' TT 1JZ-GTE
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 12:25
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Yeah I don't think limp-home mode is much to worry about. Everyone told me I'd have issues like that with my auto 2JZ-GTE, but the ECU doesn't seem to care at all. I didn't do anything special, just bypassed the neutral switch and it ran fine!
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Location: Perth
Registered: July 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 12:51
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A bit more info on Q3.
The OD of the IC pipes is 59mm. They are the stock plastic ones from a JZA70 supra as JAZE was running the stock JZA70 IC.
Regards
Peter
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Location: cronulla
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 14:27
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yes, yes i was...... cheers for that. the 59 fits with a little room to move so a little bigger should work
ive used auto ecu twice, had no issues with limp home, but had some issues with the temperature climbing a little high with the stock radiator, a tripple core deffinately works alot better, but that idea about the camry radiator sounds good too. later model radiators tend to be alu and a little more efficient, and if it comes with themos and shrouds, it may be quite cost effective. best of luck and stay away from the haltech
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 26 September 2004 22:08
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stark wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 18:50 |
1) YES get your radiator triple cored... Alternatively a 1990's V6 Camry Radiator is bigger and fits nicely (Also has twin thrmo fans and shrouds to boot
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Hi Stark,
Sorry for the thread hijack buccy (good to hear that it is all going well so far), but I am intruiged by the above rad suggestion.
What is the location of the outlets like, and what mods were required to make it fit ?
Were the fans push or pull ?
Cheers
Michael B
PS - I am going through the fun of making theI/C pipes now, but to suit a 7M-GTE & ARC in the MA61
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Location: Perth
Registered: August 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 03:43
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Ok I saw the radiator mod done on an MA61 with an MA61 with a 7M conversion about 3 years ago in Sydney when I was there last...
Unfortunately I dont have many details.... I saw the conversion and asked how he got thermo fans that looked so factory....
His reply was that it was a different radiator from a late eighties early nineties V6 Camry... Upon inspection the water outlets were in exactly the same position as the stock radiator..
The radiator physically is a little bit wider than the stock supra one and made from an aluminium core. The top mounts from the Camry were retrofitted to the front of the car and voila.
Please note though I have note done this only seen it... When I get round to it in a few weeks ill have more info....
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 03:56
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Cheers for that info, I'll have to try and check it out, but any info that you can come up with will be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Michael B
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Location: Toowoomba
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 05:08
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buccy
Yes, not many ECU's can handle the Toyota VVTi. I am running an Autronic SM2 and it can't do it. Are running twin computers - the original IS200 and the Autronic in parallel.
Will be trying the VVTi off the IS200 computer as the original 1G-FE motor was VVTi. To do this have fitted dual sensors on the motor so that all functions required are fed to both computers.
Won't know if it is successfull until it is fired up. If not will have to try without the VVTi. They tell me that it won't effect the top end power and only makes a difference to the low down torque.
Only computers to control the VVTi correctly are Motec and AEM.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Location: Canberra
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 05:44
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Buccy! MA61 + 1JZ-GTE VVTi = Motivation. Get to it, you will absolutely love this engine! Guaranteed. Tyre frying heaven.
regards Chuck.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 09:45
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Some pics of my IC piping:
I tried to keep the piping as short as possible, which is why I went to the trouble of running the IC->throttle pipe through the radiator support. Note this requires relocating the battery.
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 21:04
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Hi Stewart,
Yes they are cheaper to buy, but sometimes the shipping costs and GST/duty cahnge the end price considerably.
The best that I could get one here for was $185 ozzie from the states, but that implies no duty/GST, so for $209 from a local isn't too bad
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 27 September 2004 23:43
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maybe look for holley branded ones then
i got one of mine for under $100
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:28
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Cheers for that Stewart,
Made a bid on one, but what is the difference between the 255lph and 255lph high pressure as per the link provided ?
GSS346(M) GSS307(M) 255 ltr/hr
GSS347 GSS315 255 ltr/hr
GSS348 GSS317 255 ltr/hr
GSS349(M) GSS340(M) high-pressure 255
GSS350 GSS341 high-pressure 255
GSS351 GSS342 high-pressure 255
I guess I'll soon find out !!!!!!
Oooroo
Michael B
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:50
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Cheers Stewart,
If things go to plan, I should be able to get the std 255lph (not HP) pump back here for about AUS $50.
As long as I stay below 60 psi fuel pressure, there is no real need for the HP version. Whhoooohhoooo
And I'll sell my 910 pump for heaps more
Cheers
Michael B
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 02:45
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bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 28 September 2004 11:50 | Cheers Stewart,
If things go to plan, I should be able to get the std 255lph (not HP) pump back here for about AUS $50.
Cheers
Michael B
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Any chance of lining up another (save on postage from the USA)! And me fixing you up accordingly?
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location: Perth
Registered: October 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 04:29
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JAZE wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 00:27 | best of luck and stay away from the haltech
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Please explain?
While the E6X and E11's VVTi controll functions are fairly limitted compared to the top-end Motecs, they are excellent for all the factory niceties (idle control, etc.) and give you a heap of in/output options (as welll as datalogging) that you don't get with the bottom-shelf ECU's like Wolf and Microtech. Base maps are also available for non-VVTi 1 and JZ's and 1GG's.
I'm not trying to hijack this thread into a "my ECU is better than yours", I'm just curious where than comment came from.
cheers,
Justin
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Location: Perth
Registered: October 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 04:45
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FWIW:
Walbro high pressure fuel pumps
255ltrs per hour delivery
Includes filter and harness etc
Suit 200SX/Silvia, Supra turbo etc
$185
Ref#- ENWAL-185
In Stock
Import Blitz
Australia
That's less than I paid, once I got mine through customs, etc.
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 13:49
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what bosch pump is that diagram referring to?
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 14:15
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Chris Davey wrote on Tue, 28 September 2004 23:49 | what bosch pump is that diagram referring to?
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the one talked about in the second link
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Location: cronulla
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 15:26
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specifically with regards to running the VVTI. no comments passed on other qualities etc,
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Location: Perth
Registered: August 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 15:51
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JAZE wrote on Wed, 29 September 2004 01:26 | specifically with regards to running the VVTI. no comments passed on other qualities etc,
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To my knowledge the Haltech is an excellent aftermarket ECU.. For almost all applications I would rate them up there with the motecs and autronics
As for the VVTi well yeah its a bit of a mystery....
Haltech has informed me that there E11v2 ECU will control the infintely variable timing but are unable to tell me how it does it without interfacing with the camshaft position sensor... ie was only speaking to sales staff (No technical people were able to give me a call back)
They said that they make a load/rpm map for it however theres no way it can be infanitely variable (upto 60 degrees that is) without the ecu being able to measure the rotation and position of the camshaft comparative to TDC!!
So unless Haltech can give me a definitive answer or anyone else can enlighten me I will maintain that despite the marketing material the Haltech does VVT and simple VTEC based on a load/rpm switch but not VVTi.
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Tue, 28 September 2004 18:35
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wilbo666 wrote on Tue, 28 September 2004 12:45 |
bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 28 September 2004 11:50 | Cheers Stewart,
If things go to plan, I should be able to get the std 255lph (not HP) pump back here for about AUS $50.
Cheers
Michael B
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Any chance of lining up another (save on postage from the USA)! And me fixing you up accordingly?
Cheers
Wilbo
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Wibo,
Sorry about the late reply, but the auction ended (only 2 hours left to bid) and I was at home 'cos I was covering nightshift. It ended up costing me USD $37.75 with postage being $18.75. The luink to the one I bid on was http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ewItem&item=7924045562&rd=1&sspagename =STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT and it seems his shipping rates are pretty good, so go for it yourself. Sorry I couldn't help, but it appeared that he didn't have another 255 lph one at the moment.
Cheers
Michael B
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 00:34
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bbaacchhyy wrote on Wed, 29 September 2004 04:35 |
Wibo,
Sorry about the late reply, but the auction ended (only 2 hours left to bid) and I was at home 'cos I was covering nightshift. It ended up costing me USD $37.75 with postage being $18.75. The luink to the one I bid on was http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ewItem&item=7924045562&rd=1&sspagename =STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT and it seems his shipping rates are pretty good, so go for it yourself. Sorry I couldn't help, but it appeared that he didn't have another 255 lph one at the moment.
Cheers
Michael B
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*cough* thread hijack! Sorry!
No worries mate! I'm in no rush, so I'll just keep my peepers on ebay and wait for a bargain...btw what method do you use to pay for something when its in the USA?
Cheers
Wilbo
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 00:35
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I'm not Michael, but Paypal is usually the easiest.
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 00:44
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justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 29 September 2004 10:35 | I'm not Michael, but Paypal is usually the easiest.
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Yep, what ^ said. On current exchange rates, it's AUS $52.88
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 03:32
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Ok here is some pics....
is this plug the Neutral safty switch
any other tips on wiring the car up would be great
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 07:51
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good to see it coming along But sorry I have no idea about wiring.
When you are done, you should sand back those pipes a bit and the plug cover. You can ask Jag7799 the difference as his pipes looked pretty much identical to what yours do at the moment. I know that this is probably the last thing on your mind at the moment though
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Location: Toowoomba
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 10:00
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buccy
I can email you a spreadsheet file with all the wiring from the VVTi motor if needed. I purchased the complete translated wiring diagrams - it was the best thing I did.
Also, with a bit of cleaning up the engine can look like mine. Keep up the good work - it is well worth the effort.
Engine Bay
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Location: ACT
Registered: September 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 10:19
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man yu guys heaps talented...
since yu hav same engine as jzx100 chaser....i need sum info...
this car is straight from factory...its manual and curently has blitz catback and air intake and stock ecu. the prob is when accelerating full throttle it dusnt feel powerful as sumtin like 3/4.
wud a apexi safc or greddy emanage help this? wat otha solution is there? and also if yu get safc, where is place i can get it properli tuned in either sydney or canberra?
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Location: Newcastle
Registered: September 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 10:22
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I'm not sure if this will help you or not, but I've got a brand new Power FC, boost control module and hand controller for an automatic JZX100. It definitely controls the VVTi, but I don't know how you'd go with using it on a manual converted car. I'm sure it would allow you to turn the shifting part off, although I'd check that with Apexi.
As far as I know, it's pretty rare, as I think it's the only Power FC model that is for an auto.
I wasn't planning on selling it, as I haven't even fitted it yet, but if you make me a nice offer, I could be talked into selling.
Cheers,
Michael
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Location: ACT
Registered: September 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 10:34
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yeh i think they do sell for manual cuz my bro ask advan guys in sydney.
i wud consider buyin ur powerfc and gear....but dun think u wud like my offer rite now... unless yu wanna sell for 800
BTW do yu knw or anyone know the answer to my problem up there ^
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 11:39
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Norbie wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 22:25 | Yeah I don't think limp-home mode is much to worry about. Everyone told me I'd have issues like that with my auto 2JZ-GTE, but the ECU doesn't seem to care at all. I didn't do anything special, just bypassed the neutral switch and it ran fine!
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thats because you wired it all properly
the reason everyones goes into limp mode is cause they do shitty wiring jobs and then just assume its the manual box in place of the auto
on the topic of radiators.. atm im making do with stock radiator(same as ma61) thats been reconditioned and the std clutch fan.. has never gone over half way on temp gauge yet.. will see how summer goes
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Location: Newcastle
Registered: September 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 13:24
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banhbao wrote on Wed, 29 September 2004 20:34 | yeh i think they do sell for manual cuz my bro ask advan guys in sydney.
i wud consider buyin ur powerfc and gear....but dun think u wud like my offer rite now... unless yu wanna sell for 800
BTW do yu knw or anyone know the answer to my problem up there ^
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You're right, I don't like your offer I'm really not too interested in selling it as I've got a JZX100 on the way.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Wed, 29 September 2004 23:52
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Jag7799 wrote on Wed, 29 September 2004 21:39 | on the topic of radiators.. atm im making do with stock radiator(same as ma61) thats been reconditioned and the std clutch fan.. has never gone over half way on temp gauge yet.. will see how summer goes
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You probably won't have much of a problem. Soarers have much better front-end airflow than MA61's (just compare the size of the grille) so I reckon your engine will stay cool even with a stock radiator.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2002
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 03 October 2004 08:56
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Hey just a quick update. Everything is now back on the car just have a few more little wiring jobs to do and it will be ready for a test fire hopefully this weekend. Wish me luck.
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Location: Ballarat, Victoria
Registered: March 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Sun, 03 October 2004 10:22
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good luck
more pics
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 11 October 2004 00:58
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My 2JZ did a similar thing when the MAP sensor was disconnected and the ECU went into limp-home mode. In your case the MAF sensor might not be hooked up properly and/or you have a big air leak somewhere. Check the ECU error codes, that will tell you for sure.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 11 October 2004 03:19
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Yeah thats what I originally thought as well but after I hooked all the pipes up it did the same thing. Any idea on how to get the error codes out of her?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 11 October 2004 03:53
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For a 2JZ, yes. For a VVTi 1JZ, no. Do you have a service manual?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 11 October 2004 04:16
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No unfortunatly, I have no idea where you would pick up an english one, be very helpful though. Anyway how different to your car could it be ? It would have to be something to do with the diagnostics plug yeah?
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: 1JZ VVTi ---> MA61 Conversion Under Way
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Mon, 11 October 2004 04:22
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buccy wrote on Mon, 11 October 2004 12:16 | No unfortunatly, I have no idea where you would pick up an english one, be very helpful though. Anyway how different to your car could it be ? It would have to be something to do with the diagnostics plug yeah?
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If its like any other Toyota, you connect T1 and E1 in the diagnotic plug (Timing and earth)
That works for 5MGE and 7MGE, I don't have any experience with any other factory ecu's
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