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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Mon, 27 September 2004 03:30
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I've got a head lying around that I pulled off of an ST162 - it has Yamaha 11111-88360 printed on it...I've got another head which does not have the same marking on it - it's from a 1986 ST162.
Is there any difference between these two? I can't see any markings on the second head I mentioned but it's currently attached to the engine in the car and I can only see the 'front' (exhaust side) of it at the moment.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Mon, 27 September 2004 09:50
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I vaguely remember something about the '86 ST162's having only 2 pins holding the cam gear to the shaft, but the '88 model has 5. Could that be the difference you're talking about?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Mon, 27 September 2004 10:37
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Could be it the aus spec engine was out a of '86 model, the stock ones i have here only have one pin, the jap spec had 5 or 6 from memory but im pretty sure they werent evenly spaced. Still doesnt explain the different pistons tho.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Mon, 27 September 2004 12:05
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Could be it the aus spec engine was out a of '86 model, the stock ones i have here only have one pin, the jap spec had 5 or 6 from memory but im pretty sure they werent evenly spaced. Still doesnt explain the different pistons tho.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Mon, 27 September 2004 13:13
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The one I've got (88360) has only one pin holding the camshaft gear on. The diff. between the jap & aus models is EGR (emissions) and compression ratio. All ST162s have crown pistons.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Mon, 27 September 2004 13:19
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Oh yeah - what I meant to say is that both the heads I've got have one pin holding the camshaft on.
They are definitely physically slightly different, not sure exactly how though!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:37
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I also have 2 ST162 heads that are totally different in the port area's on the inlet side.
One has big ports like a big port 4AG and the other has the same size ports where the manifold meets the head, but the port then narrows considerably closer to the divider before the valves. This head seems to have more pollution gear on it as well.
THe pistons are definitely not high tops like an 18RG looking piston. Flat crown with 4 x valve recesses like 4AG pistons.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Tue, 28 September 2004 02:31
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Yes - the standard pistons have a wedge shaped type of crown. Afaik - 3S-FE engines have 'dish' type piston crowns, as do 5S-FE and 2S engines....the 3S-GE and 3S-GTEs are the ones with the high top piston.
As for what # the 3S-GTE head has from an ST165 - it has 11111-88381, or 11111-88380 not sure what the difference is between the two, but stumpy's 1989 ST165 has the 88380, my 1988 ST165 has the 88381.
The difference as far as I can tell between jap spec and aus-delivered heads is nil...the compression difference is more than likely piston related - seeing as reshaping the heads is BLOODY hard to do - the multi-valve design just makes it impractical to have different combustion chamber shapes.
I'll post a picture of the two heads exhaust sides to show you what I mean when I say they are *definitely* physically different.
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This head seems to have more pollution gear on it as well.
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The head doesn't usually have any pollution gear on it, usually that stuff is just on the intake and exhaust manifolds. Do either of your heads have yamaha numbers on them?
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Tue, 28 September 2004 02:35
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Actually - you guys have me doubting the piston shape - dammit  I'll have to have a look sometime...but I'm near 100% sure that they have a wedge.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Tue, 28 September 2004 04:02
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dude I really can't help you here although I am very intersted in seeing those pictures
can I have a look at the numbers easily on my head? I will take a pic for you or post the number if you like.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Tue, 28 September 2004 05:35
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I've got a spare motor (from an '88 ST162), I'll pull it apart later this week then we'll all know for sure!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Tue, 28 September 2004 14:06
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Does anyone know what number appears on an SW20 head? I doubt this is an SW-20 head though...
If you can grab an ST162 head (without yamaha stuffs on it) and measure port dimensions etc that'd be great (as I could comapre them to this Yamaha thingos port dimensions).
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 02:06
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there are NO number on my head north of the exhaust holes
weird
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 05:13
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I'll get the number off mine tonight.
One Definitely has extra ports built into the head for pollution (or something) to the exhaust side. I'll take some pics
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 06:28
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I couldn't find any numbers on either the gen1 or gen2 motors! pics would be cool, maybe im looking in the wrong place altogether.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 10:16
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No numbers on either on the heads I have here.
I have pics, but can't host them.(anyone help out?)
I also checked the pistons. They are most definitely flat tops witht the valve recesses in them, as I mentioned above 
The pollution thingo port in the crappy small(ish) port head also has me puzzled. I assume it's pollution related as it appears to have oily residue in it, I goes from the end of the cam cover to an outlet below the oil pressure sender. Anyways, a picture tells a thousand words.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 11:58
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steve, i can host pics for you if you want, email em to stevenfarmer@gmail.com
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 13:55
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Yeah - that is a breather pipe - it's not entirely emission related, it's related to engine wear 
It's pretty hard to look at the wrong place - one of my heads has no numbers so maybe that's the way they always appear! I wish I could get a photo up, but there's been a bit of a delay in getting my digital camera - soon soon!
If someone can put a picture up of the exhaust area of their head I will circle where the numbers should be!!!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 14:16
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Flat tops ey? I'm too lazy to pull my head off to have a look I know they have valve recesses, but I always thought the pistons had a little peak/crown on them too.
Here's a few bits of interesting info from www.alldata.com (regarding automotive recalls and technical bulletins) this applies to the 1986-1989 Toyota Celica ST162s
ENG028 SEP 90 Engine - Piston Modification Due to Knock When Cold
ENG018 SEP 90 Engine - Cylinder Block and Crankshaft Modified
ENG019 MAY 88 Engine - New Piston Ring Reduces Oil Consumption
032032787 MAR 87 Engine - Bearing Cap Redesign Reduces Vibration
02611687 JAN 87 Engine - Oil Pump Gasket Improved
ENG005 JUN 87 EGR - Pipe Flange Gasket Improved
SUSP005 JAN 90 Alignment - Camber Adjusting Mechanism Discontinued
How much does that suck? I want camber adjusting mechanism 
However, it doesn't say anything about them using different heads between years or anything about them changing the cylinder head design. Unfortunately all that stuff up there only applies to american delivered cars (I think) so who knows what's going on elsewhere in the world But they obviously had to change a few things over the years to fix up some niggles here and there, so maybe diff. pistons etc is part of the deal...
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Wed, 29 September 2004 23:07
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Pics sent. Over to you Steve.
The breather thing is cast into the head. I havn't seen it on any other head. It's the 'angled' hole in the pic soon to be posted.
Cheers. (& thanks for hosting the pics Steve F)
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Thu, 30 September 2004 01:06
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Too many steve's here For the record, I'll stick with plain old 'Stephen'
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Thu, 30 September 2004 05:22
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OK here we go. Steve R might like to write up a the commentary for these pics.
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Thu, 30 September 2004 05:42
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Thanks Steve, Steve & ahhhh Steve.
Top pic is the exhaust port on the dodgy head with the emmission thingo. No number on the head.
Under that pic is the inlet port on the dodgy head. Note how only a very small section of the inlet valve is visible. Pic isn't too clear, but the port narrows considerably half way along. Under this pic is the inlet on my good head. It has been cleaned up slightly but remains basically stock. Note how almost all of the inlet valves are visible. A big difference really. Next shot is the stock gen 1 piston. Flat top with recesses. The last shot depicts the small hole that appears to be emissions related. It is the angled hole with the black crap around it & it exits the head below the oil pressure sender boss (in the simmilar looking threaded boss near the water outlet - the furtherest bottom left side fitting) What the hell is it? (not that it matters as my good head doesn;t have it and I don't want it - just interested that's all).
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Thu, 30 September 2004 06:00
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Dammit - lost my message...
Anyway!
Yeah the intake port narrows quite a fair bit on that top intake port pic. The intake on the 'good' head more reflects the intake ports on the Yamaha head I've got, although the curvature on the manifold side of the head looks different and it looks like they've had some work done to them??? (minor)
Exhaust ports match up with both my Yamaha-marked and non-marked heads.
I have no idea what that little exit is!!! Will have a look at both the heads and pistons more closely tomorrow.
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Thu, 30 September 2004 06:17
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That bottom pic is where the EGR attaches, If your new head does not have that, then it is a Jap import head. That may also explain the difference in ports.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Yamaha 11111-88360 vs. no # ??? (ST162s)
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Fri, 01 October 2004 03:02
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Stumpy -> my Gen 1 aus-spec emissions heads does not have that hole, the EGR is attached to the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold but that's it...
My yamaha marked head has three 'allen'-head style 'bolts' (I guess you could call them that but they pretty much do nothing) along the spark plugs, but the non-marked one has only two...they are definitely different castings, but until I strip the head and measure the ports etc then I guess I have no idea whether there is any difference between the two (I am assuming that there isn't at this stage).
The opening to the intake ports on the yamaha-marked head resemble the top intake port pic, but the actual ports themselves resemble the bottom intake port picture.
I'll get pics up as soon as possible
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