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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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 TA-23 suspension
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Fri, 27 September 2002 04:32
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I was wondering, how similar is the suspension on other toyota models to the TA-23 suspension, or other types of cars even. Especially the rear suspension/axle. I read on one site that some person has put a Sprinter rear-diff into his RA-23 celica. I'm trying to build up a semi reliable rally car, and the standard diff is quite crap, even locked it's not up to spec really, especially on sealed surfaces  . Obviously a LSD is much more readily available for something like the Sprinter. Has anyone ever heard anything about this, anyone who has tried this, or has any info about fitting a better rear end to a TA-23 Celica?
The problem with rally regs though, is the restrictions on how the suspension is mounted, I think it may need to use *exclusively* the bolt holes for the standard struts, but some of the other components might be "free". The prop shaft can be altered to accomodate the different diff, so it's mainly just the suspension components that need to be a near exact fit.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Fri, 27 September 2002 06:36
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If you can find a Sprinter LSD centre, it will bolt right into your Celica axle housing - no need to touch the suspension. The only advantage to swapping the entire Sprinter rear end is getting the disc brakes, but those discs are so tiny it's not worth it IMO.
Note that Sprinter LSD's aren't easy to find. 
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Fri, 27 September 2002 06:52
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Disc brakes would be good which is one of the reasons I was looking at swapping rear ends (forgot to mention it though).
Are there are rear disc brake conversions that don't require you to modify the suspension mounts? Because the one that is on this web site requires me to move some stuff around that ain't rally-legal.
What about a Hilux rear end? (dunno)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Sun, 29 September 2002 02:29
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The only disc-brake rear end which comes close to plug-and-play is the MA4x Supra rear end. These are very hard to come by though, and some mods to the suspension are still required.
The Hilux rear end will go in with some work, but all Hilux's have leaf springs in the back so you'll have to have your suspension mounting points welded to the Hilux axle housing. You'll also be stuck with drums (big ones though) and a 5-stud pattern. Both these issues can be addressed but there's a fair bit of work involved.
Having said that, Hilux rear ends are cheap and LSD centres are easy to find in a variety of ratios. They're also uber-strong.
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Sun, 29 September 2002 06:49
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Gidday
Seem to go round this to9pic lots. maybe we should save some of the previous replies somewhere.
The ae86 rear end will not fit into a 23 as it tooo wide and the suspension points don't match up. That being said if you retain your housing and the axles u can fit up the disc and the centre, there is some playing around with the axle retaining plates.
It is easier to fit the rear discs off a rt141. Cheap, easy fit and big discs, and its all covered in one of the tech articles on this site. I believe that these will also fit up to the hilux housing. Finding a ae86 t series lsd is another story. I got one cheap and it cost $770 all up.
U can always fit a dunny door diff. Again have a look around the site, its been covered to death - so have skyline diffs.
Just a gentle hint, sometimes it would be usefull if people were to have a search around the sites as often (very) the topic has been covered.
Craig
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Sun, 29 September 2002 17:21
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Firstly, I have looked thru the past god-knows what number of pages and searched for this topic, but the requirements I've got differ to those people who just want to bolt on a rear end.
I want a rear-disc conversion, and I also want a LSD that is permissble to run in the SARC as a production car...from what I see so far the rt141 rear disc and a plain old sprinter LSD would be the way to go. However, in case someone has a better idea, or if there are problems with this conversion -> the rules relating to suspension/brakes are as follows.
straight from the CAMS Manual of Motor Sport - Road Events - Rally Cars - Group 3C
(note that free means that anything basically goes, so you can replace a "free" component with a rubber duckie if you want to)
Article 3.5
i) The position of the rotational axis of the mounting points of the suspension to the wheel uprights, and to the shell or chassis, must remain unchanged.
ii) (not really relevant -> reinforcement bar related)
iii) Suspension components and axles are free provided they are entirely interchangeable with the original units. For vehicles with a live rear axle, the entire rear axle tube and differential housing assembly is considered to be suspension and is therefore free. The suspension mounting points on the body/chassis must be retained and used exclusively and unmodified and to the exclusion of all others, save that strengthening is permitted in accordance with Article 3.9(i) (don't worry about that)
iv) Anti sway bars are free as are their anchorage points. The points may be used for the mounting of reinforcement bars.
v) The top shock absorber mounting plates of MacPherson struts are free save that the mounting points on the actual bodywork must remain unchanged.
vi) Not really relevant, just says you can fiddle with springs a bit.
vii) Not really relevant, basically you can interchange shock absorbers.
viii) not relevant.
Article 3.7
The complete braking system is free, subject to any replacement components complying with the relevant registration requirements and any modifications to bodywork being restricted to the drilling of holes for the fitting and/or operation of any components. blah blah blah.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Mon, 30 September 2002 14:59
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This is my problem with the RT141 conversion though
"Before you bolt up it will be necessary to move the Shock Absorber mount by about 20mm so that it does not contact the back of the caliper. This is not particularly difficult as it is just a matter of carefully removing the mount with an angle grinder and rewelding it inboard 20mm."
Should I just go with the Sprinter discs?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Tue, 01 October 2002 01:04
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I wouldn't. People seem to assume that discs are always better than drums, but take a look at Sprinter discs and tell me how effective they're going to be. Remember the front brakes to 80% of the work anyway, so is it really worth the hassle?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Tue, 01 October 2002 13:58
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and for a handbrake that you know is gonna work well without farting round (assuming hydraulics are out!) stick with what you've got, give it some new shoes, adjust and lubricate the cables/linkages carefully, and yank hard on that lever for some enjoyment 
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Tue, 01 October 2002 16:41
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What about the front discs on a Sprinter though? Are they compatible, I guess the torque plate wouldn't be easily mounted though.
The whole system is going to be replumbed anyway to bring the brake lines through the cockpit, so there is a lot of hassle in preparing a rally prepped braking system either way, and it's always a good idea to do the best job possible and get it out of the way.
Pads/discs are easier to service as well, if drums **** up on a rally stage it's a bit more of a pain in the arse to fiddle with when you've only got seconds to spare.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Tue, 01 October 2002 23:32
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I'm pretty sure Sprinter front discs are quite a bit smaller than the TA23/RA23 Celica ones (if we're talking Aus-spec Sprinters that is). If you're going to all the trouble of upgrading the fronts, you might as well use something decent (eg Supra discs/calipers like I did).
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Thu, 03 October 2002 13:42
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Is there anyway to fit supra rear discs on the TA-23?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA-23 suspension
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Thu, 03 October 2002 23:58
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Supras have IRS, so the hub arrangement is completely different to a TA23. It could be done, but not easily.
FWIW I'm planning to use early Skyline (R31?) rear discs on my Celica, as they are a decent size and the correct stud pattern. They also have live axle suspension which means they will be easier to adapt.
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