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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 09:49
 
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all well and good, but can u imagine where the computer age would be if ppl like bill gates hadn't been around, i say good on him for being to smart and making his money 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 09:58
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| Mr DOHC wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 19:19 |
all well and good, but can u imagine where the computer age would be if ppl like bill gates hadn't been around, i say good on him for being to smart and making his money
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I say bad on him for making such fucked up programs that crash all the time and then have poor helppdesk personell answering phonecalls related in no way whatsoever to the service that we provide 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:02
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if u have a look at the code for a program like XP, u tell me whether its possible to make it flawless and un-succeptible to hacking/bugs
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:05
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maybe if they had've started with some fresh source code.....
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:06
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| Mr DOHC wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 19:32 |
if u have a look at the code for a program like XP, u tell me whether its possible to make it flawless and un-succeptible to hacking/bugs
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I am talking about outlook express here dude, not Xp that program fucks up everyday and every day we have five fuckwits minimum ring up with "email" troubles 
But yes Xp is also fucked
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:07
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This is true. But overall you have to appreciate it doesn't work too bad considering what it has to do.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:09
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anyway back on topic, you wanna rip them off then go ahead, you wanna stick up for microsoft start your own goddamn thread 
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:12
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Is it legal to knowingly do this? I'm not sure. But anyway, good luck
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:19
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If you really want to get to Microsoft, dont use their products.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 10:25
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Exactly, costs them a lot more if no one buys their stuff. Go use Linux if you hate them so much
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 12:25
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 13:20
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 23:09 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 19:55 |
Exactly, costs them a lot more if no one buys their stuff. Go use Linux if you hate them so much
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who says I buy their stuff...
/me looks around room suspiciously 
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You are still supporting them by using their product in though you didn't pay for it. The only way to get at them is to not use the product at all.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 13:24
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 22:50 |
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 23:09 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 19:55 |
Exactly, costs them a lot more if no one buys their stuff. Go use Linux if you hate them so much
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who says I buy their stuff...
/me looks around room suspiciously
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You are still supporting them by using their product in though you didn't pay for it. The only way to get at them is to not use the product at all.
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well I dont have the first clue where to start with linux or solaris so it looks like crappy old windows Xp for the time being, now where did I put that idiots guide to linux?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 14:13
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| SupraPete wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 22:06 |
As for XP being crap I'd put it down to PEBKAC as most of the people who use it don't have a single problem.
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Never a truer word has been spoken
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Wed, 06 October 2004 23:40
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Agreed. The current versions of Microsoft consumer products are amazingly stable considering the vast range of hardware it can run on, and the vast range of (often dodgy) software it can co-exist with. No-one else has acheived that, ever, and if Microsoft hadn't done it we wouldn't have such cheap powerful PC's available to us today.
No-one said their products are perfect but hey, show me a consumer-grade software package which is.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 00:32
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 09:40 |
No-one said their products are perfect but hey, show me a consumer-grade software package which is.
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Software packages used to work absolutely perfectly before Windows came out.
Micro$haft singlehandedly changed the level of acceptible bugginess in software.
I remember the days when if an icon on your desktop changed for no apparent reason, you'd reinstall everything 'coz *something* must be horribly wrong with your system.
These days, you go "Oh... Maybe I need to reboot".
It's an accepted norm now that software will be buggy when released.
As for XP, it's by far the best Windoze ever released and is acceptible to use now (barely). But in no way can it be considered good. There are shitloads that piss me off about it.
* Multi user support is SLOW and extremely buggy (even by Micro$haft standards).
* The network stack is hideous (try copying stuff to an SMB share)
* USB handling is slow.
* True multitasking is still non-existant.
* Handling of resources STILL sux! Longest I've ever had an XP box up is 40 days before it got to an unacceptible
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 00:48
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 10:32 |
Software packages used to work absolutely perfectly before Windows came out.
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Which "Software packages" are you referring to?
(I had a big rebuttal typed out, but thought I'd ask first)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 01:07
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Your taking too long, and I've got a meeting, so I'll have a go now.
| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 10:32 |
There are shitloads that piss me off about it.
* Multi user support is SLOW and extremely buggy (even by Micro$haft standards).
* The network stack is hideous (try copying stuff to an SMB share)
* USB handling is slow.
* True multitasking is still non-existant.
* Handling of resources STILL sux! Longest I've ever had an XP box up is 40 days before it got to an unacceptible
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Why are you using XP multi user? Why not NT or 2003 Server?
We're using SMB shares at my work, only problem we've had is Telstra turned off NetBios and we couldn't connect. What problems have you had? Who set it up?
USB Handling is slow compared to what? I never considered it slow (just a fact of life)
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 01:19
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I think this is gonna be fun...
My experience was with Amigas, so I'm talking about programs like Deluxe Paint. But even the Macs with their killer apps, VisiCalc and whatever the name of that desktop publishing software was.
I'm using XP multiuser because I can. Apparently... hehe
It allows multiple people to keep their own profiles (ie: Outlook mail etc). I use XP because NT is shit and I don't have 2003.
Ever shared a directory on your hard drive and had someone leech off it? It will slow the system down like a mofo!
USB is slow compared to Linux. But then again, just about anything Windoze is slow compared to the Linux counterpart.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 01:59
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 10:32 |
Software packages used to work absolutely perfectly before Windows came out.
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I know you're a one-eyed anti-Microsoft crusader, but come on, that's a bit much!
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 02:11
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 11:19 |
I think this is gonna be fun...
My experience was with Amigas, so I'm talking about programs like Deluxe Paint. But even the Macs with their killer apps, VisiCalc and whatever the name of that desktop publishing software was.
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I think we need to take a long hard look at where the instability comes from here. If you have one hardware configuration only and tame applications running on it then you can have a super stable OS. This was the case with Amiga, it's also the case with Mac. Microsoft don't have this luxury as they make an OS to run on any crap hardware with any crap saftware on it.
If MS had the opportunity to make an OS for the same kind of situation as Amiga and Mac then it would be just as stable. Hang on they do have one, when was the last time you saw an Xbox GSOD. The Xbox runs a Win2K kernel and yes if it gets errors it will bring up a green screen of death. I can't say I've seen a single instance of this happening however.
Microsoft has several weaknesses in the OS market firstly they have to offer a one size fits all operating system that will work with and for the lowest common denominator. People expect backwards compatability between their current Windows XP machine and software they bought for Win3.11. When MS make changes to improve security such as they have with Windows XP SP2 they get burned for causing some applications that are not secure to stop working, however if they didn't do this they get burned for not fixing security issues.
The other weakness is the people that use the product. Lets take Blaster as an example. The patch for that issue had been available on windows update for 3 months before the worm hit. However there are still people being infected by it. Now is that a problem with the operating system or with the users, any OS will have patches released to fix security issues Linux is no different, the difference is that paople using other OSes bother to keep the machine up to date.
Lastly one of the biggest problems for security issues faced by MS is people just want there to be problems. What happens when exploits are found in Linux? They get reported and fixed. What happens when people find exploits in Windows? They write an exploit/worm/virus.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 02:16
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MR 1GGTE firstly I know of several MS employee's who read this site so posting this kind of crap could well be a bad plan.
Secondly good on you. You make a living from your huge skills of being able to "fix" Outlook Express problems on a ISP help desk, publicly state that you don't have the skills to even use non-MS operating systems but feel free to bag the products and try to "rip off" the company.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 02:30
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Hey guys,
XP is alright, i'd still rather use 2000Pro its much more stable. just my 2 c.
brad
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 02:31
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 11:59 |
| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 10:32 |
Software packages used to work absolutely perfectly before Windows came out.
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I know you're a one-eyed anti-Microsoft crusader, but come on, that's a bit much!
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Me? One-eyed? Never!
I still stand by my comment, maybe not the "absolutely perfectly" part, but I *have* seen a change in what people consider an acceptible amount of buggy behaviour in software since Windoze came out.
| Joshstix wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:11 |
I think we need to take a long hard look at where the instability comes from here. If you have one hardware configuration only and tame applications running on it then you can have a super stable OS. This was the case with Amiga, it's also the case with Mac. Microsoft don't have this luxury as they make an OS to run on any crap hardware with any crap saftware on it.
If MS had the opportunity to make an OS for the same kind of situation as Amiga and Mac then it would be just as stable. Hang on they do have one, when was the last time you saw an Xbox GSOD. The Xbox runs a Win2K kernel and yes if it gets errors it will bring up a green screen of death. I can't say I've seen a single instance of this happening however.
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This is true to an extent, but the Amiga OS actually did have to cater for a wider variety of video cards (used for video capture etc).
But, yes, the variety of hardware for PC OSes is much wider.
I don't believe this can be used as an excuse for a flakey OS though. Bad drivers can lead to system instabilities, but I don't think this is much of a cause for Windoze instability problems. Performance, yes, but not instability. But then again, Linux can perform much better with the same hardware variety problems. Even more, the drivers are mostly reverse engineered stuff written by geeks in their garages.
| Joshstix wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:11 |
Microsoft has several weaknesses in the OS market firstly they have to offer a one size fits all operating system that will work with and for the lowest common denominator. People expect backwards compatability between their current Windows XP machine and software they bought for Win3.11. When MS make changes to improve security such as they have with Windows XP SP2 they get burned for causing some applications that are not secure to stop working, however if they didn't do this they get burned for not fixing security issues.
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I read an absolutely amazing article on a similar subject. They do stuff like detect whether a certain program is running and run workarounds for bugs in those programs! MS provide hacks around bugs in other companies's software!
| Joshstix wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:11 |
The other weakness is the people that use the product. Lets take Blaster as an example. The patch for that issue had been available on windows update for 3 months before the worm hit. However there are still people being infected by it. Now is that a problem with the operating system or with the users, any OS will have patches released to fix security issues Linux is no different, the difference is that paople using other OSes bother to keep the machine up to date.
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I don't think you can fully blame the users though. MS have been known to sit on bugs for 9 months before providing a patch. And of course another 9 months for Windoze admins to apply the patch... hehe
| Joshstix wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:11 |
Lastly one of the biggest problems for security issues faced by MS is people just want there to be problems. What happens when exploits are found in Linux? They get reported and fixed. What happens when people find exploits in Windows? They write an exploit/worm/virus.
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The user base is a factor here too... Windoze is a nice target because you can compromise so many more systems with your exploit/worm/virus.
Although, there are fundamental differences in the security models. Windoze was not written to be secure. All the patches have been trying to put security over a core which was basically meant for single users with admin access.
Most exploits found for Unix aren't to do with the kernel. Whereas Windoze is the other way around (this is helped a lot by the fact that IE is part of the kernel).
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 02:37
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Windows XP... bad? wtf? since when?
How could ANYONE say that windows XP is bad, i guess if you are a retard and run really cruddy hardware you might have problems, but to say XP crashes all the time is just ridiculous!
I work at a small ISP and we just use Win2k Server. Its fast, stable and usually once every 10 months it needs a reboot and with the new version of ghost you dont need to turn off your machine to do a full ghost ^_^
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 02:55
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I have created a monster..I think this thread has got a little out of hand 
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:09
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:55 |
I have created a monster..I think this thread has got a little out of hand
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MR 1GGTE, I think you've learned your lesson here.....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:10
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:31 |
Although, there are fundamental differences in the security models. Windoze was not written to be secure. All the patches have been trying to put security over a core which was basically meant for single users with admin access.
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Eh? Which version of Windows are you talking about here? That's certainly not the case for Win2k/XP (both built on the NT kernel). It is true for 95/98/ME, but who the hell uses that any more?
And let's not make the common mistake of comparing server OS's (most unix derivatives) with consumer OS's (XP Home etc). Vastly different capabilities and requirements!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:17
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| AE86slut wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:39 |
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:55 |
I have created a monster..I think this thread has got a little out of hand
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MR 1GGTE, I think you've learned your lesson here.....
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I swear ill be good from now on as much fun as it wont be 
Im just going to sulk in the corner now 
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:17
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:31
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(sorry, long lunch)
| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 11:19 |
I think this is gonna be fun...
...
Ever shared a directory on your hard drive and had someone leech off it? It will slow the system down like a mofo!
USB is slow compared to Linux. But then again, just about anything Windoze is slow compared to the Linux counterpart.
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That shared directly has nothing to do with Samba though. Samba shouldn't be used for a leech drive! If you have to run unix for something use FTP or some other fast protocol to leach from it (that includes leeching from windows). (Buzz words like SMB won't work here unless you've got a bloody good knowledge of it)
"USB is slow compared to Linux." For a start USB is a protocol and Linux is an OS. Are USB devices are faster in Linux than in Windows? Is that what your saying? And what do you mean by slow? Slow at picking up the device, or slow at transferring to it?
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 04:04
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 13:10 |
Eh? Which version of Windows are you talking about here? That's certainly not the case for Win2k/XP (both built on the NT kernel). It is true for 95/98/ME, but who the hell uses that any more?
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Windows (whatever version) does not (fully) support users and groups.
A user can run a program, and that program (with the correct exploit) can totally trash a system.
| SupraPete wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 13:31 |
That shared directly has nothing to do with Samba though. Samba shouldn't be used for a leech drive! If you have to run unix for something use FTP or some other fast protocol to leach from it (that includes leeching from windows). (Buzz words like SMB won't work here unless you've got a bloody good knowledge of it)
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Samba shouldn't. But can. And does so very badly on Windoze with its shithouse network stack.
"Shouldn't" is totally different from "can" and has no bearing on what we are talking about.
| SupraPete wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 13:31 |
"USB is slow compared to Linux." For a start USB is a protocol and Linux is an OS. Are USB devices are faster in Linux than in Windows? Is that what your saying? And what do you mean by slow? Slow at picking up the device, or slow at transferring to it?
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If you're picking on my wording, then you're clutching at straws.
USB transfers on Linux are much faster than on Windoze.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 04:58
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Yeah, everything is SOOO much faster in Linux Tell that to our poor machines at uni that inherited Fedora. Or the fact I couldn't even do a graphical install of Linux on my old machine cos X Windows (at the time) didn't wanna play cos I didn't have enough RAM.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 05:15
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 14:04 |
Windows (whatever version) does not (fully) support users and groups.
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Bollocks.
| Quote: |
A user can run a program, and that program (with the correct exploit) can totally trash a system.
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True only if the user account has Administrator permissions... which as we all know should never be done. This problem stems from a poorly setup OS, not an inherent fault in the OS itself.
It's exactly the same as a program running under linux with root permissions... it can trash the entire system too! But is that a fault with the OS?
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:03
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Hi,
| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 13:10 |
It is true for 95/98/ME, but who the hell uses that any more?
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Errr.. I do. I use Win98 SE still. IMHO it's the best gaming OS still. Besides, I use my PC for games, internet and other small-time stuff, so Win98 is okay for my purposes. When I get some extra cash I'll build a better/faster PC and prolly load XP then, but at the moment good ol' Win98 does it's job.
Mind you, I use an old Win3.1 machine in the workshop for cross-assembly and Hyperterminal stuff to connect to my older development systems (ie such as an Intel MDS). I found Win98 Hyperterminal locks up after a few hours, but the Win3.1 version just keeps on trucking.
seeyuzz
river
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:05
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| river wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 14:03 |
I use Win98 SE still.
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*shudders* Kudos to you dude, I SOO couldn't go back
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:13
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River I didnt know people still even used Hyper Terminal!
That shit was teh B-0-M-B back in year 5!
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:46
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 14:58 |
Yeah, everything is SOOO much faster in Linux Tell that to our poor machines at uni that inherited Fedora. Or the fact I couldn't even do a graphical install of Linux on my old machine cos X Windows (at the time) didn't wanna play cos I didn't have enough RAM.
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Err.. Last I checked, X Windows was not part of the Linux kernel.
And everyone knows X Windows is a bloated piece of shit.
Dunno where you got the idea of everything being faster in Linux from.
It's 99% true though...
| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 15:15 |
| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 14:04 |
Windows (whatever version) does not (fully) support users and groups.
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Bollocks.
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Show me Groups working properly in Windows.
| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 15:15 |
| Quote: |
A user can run a program, and that program (with the correct exploit) can totally trash a system.
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True only if the user account has Administrator permissions... which as we all know should never be done. This problem stems from a poorly setup OS, not an inherent fault in the OS itself.
It's exactly the same as a program running under linux with root permissions... it can trash the entire system too! But is that a fault with the OS?
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But what set of permissions does the default user have on a clean install of Windows? Is there even mention that the user will have Administration priveliges? Are the users told that this is a bad idea?
The fundamental core of Windows is not secure. They have just built stuff around it to try to prevent people/worms/virii doing bad things to the system. Like Outlook blocking off all EXEs.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:52
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What am I supposed to use to have a GOOD user interface then?
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:56
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Good? AmigaOS. hehehe
OS X is nice. I haven't played around with it too much though.
But the UI of Windoze is actually very good. Micro$haft spend a shitload of time and money on the usability of their UI and it's damn good.
I just wish they'd spend that sort of money on their security and testing budgets...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:59
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 16:46 |
Show me Groups working properly in Windows.
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WTF? Every major corporate rollout of Windows uses groups (it would be impossible to manage a larger userbase without it). It certainly works fine for my multinational employer!
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But what set of permissions does the default user have on a clean install of Windows? Is there even mention that the user will have Administration priveliges? Are the users told that this is a bad idea?
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In recent versions of Windows, the installation process creates an Administrator account and then prompts the user to create user account(s) which by default are NOT added to the Administrators group.
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The fundamental core of Windows is not secure. They have just built stuff around it to try to prevent people/worms/virii doing bad things to the system. Like Outlook blocking off all EXEs.
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So what you're saying is the average home user does not know how to set up a PC securely. We all know this already, but what can you really do about it? And how the hell does that make Windows fundamentally insecure? If you said Windows was easy to set up insecurely I'd agree with you, but that's saying something completely different.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:59
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Haha, testing schmesting, I've had numerous things die on Windows XP, with Windows itself not being one of them. Every crash I've had has been to do with a dodgy driver, or the clip from my HSF touching on a toroidal filter
Haha, security, well there are always security issues, but I have a nice Linux box between the Windows box and the real world, and I don't use Internet Explorer.
[Updated on: Thu, 07 October 2004 06:59]
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Location:
Kellyville, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 07:24
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go MS DOS yeah wooohooo
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:06
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 16:59 |
WTF? Every major corporate rollout of Windows uses groups (it would be impossible to manage a larger userbase without it). It certainly works fine for my multinational employer!
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 16:59 |
In recent versions of Windows, the installation process creates an Administrator account and then prompts the user to create user account(s) which by default are NOT added to the Administrators group.
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Hmm... I wasn't aware of those two.
| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 16:59 |
So what you're saying is the average home user does not know how to set up a PC securely. We all know this already, but what can you really do about it? And how the hell does that make Windows fundamentally insecure? If you said Windows was easy to set up insecurely I'd agree with you, but that's saying something completely different.
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No, Windows is installed insecure. You then have to make it secure by doing things such as not allowing the automatic running of ActiveX controls, turning off unneeded processes, turn the local firewall on, restrict access to the registry, stuff like that.
Add that to the fact that MS is extremely tardy in patching up holes...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:14
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 16:59 |
Haha, security, well there are always security issues, but I have a nice Linux box between the Windows box and the real world, and I don't use Internet Explorer.
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You know, they found a buffer overflow error in Mozilla? 
Oh, and did you know that applications can turn off the Windoze Firewall? 
Oh, and it doesn't monitor outgoing packets!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:14
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Ill stick by my theory here.
WINDOWS OWNZ.... ACCEPT THE WORLD DOMINATION!!!
Linux in its various incarnations is used by what? 1.5% of the pc population?. And its still had problems in the past.. But you havnt heard about exploits and dodgy code because YOUR not a linux user (im talking to the majority).
Another fact. Exploits and viruses are written with windows in mind. Because 95% of the population uses it. Another fact. 85% of this population cant tell the monitor from the keyboard. This ADDED ontop of the fact that windows was semi-dodgy in the first place. And that creates the situation where we have ppl that say windows sux0rs.
Seriously. Ive Used a multitude of OS' and my current setup XP SP1a I NEVER have problems with. Yes you need to disable a lot of crap. And run programs for protection and run other programs rather than ones packaged with windows. But this is actually just as 'hard' as setting up a Linux system for certain circumstances.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:44
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Whats the point of leaving your computer on all week unless its doing something? My Linux box does because it is my firewall, and my Windows XP HTPC is on 24/7 cos they have to be.
As for problems and rebooting, you have to come back to the major point, who cares if you have to reboot Windows, how fucking quick is it to do so compared to its Linux counterpart!?
I just accept Windows is a reliable great user interface with security holes that are non-existant if you aren't dumb.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:47
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 18:14 |
Whats the point of leaving your computer on all week unless its doing something?
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Im staying out of this argument due to a sheer lack of knowledge but i agree with JCMF as leaving PC's on for days on end results in a shorter life, I have cooked too many power supplies/fans etc to disagree with him and although they arent expensive it can be a headfuck to find one on a sunday, which is usually the day they pick to die
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:50
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Windows XP == consumer-oriented, home OS. So it can't stay up all week (in your case; I can't say I've ever had a problem leaving XP online for extended periods) - but is that what it's designed to do? No.
Let's compare apples with apples. An industrial-grade server OS like Win2k or Win2k3 will stay up for months at a time, and usually much longer if you don't bother patching it (not recommended). Yes I have managed many Windows server boxes in high-load corporate environments, and I never had to reboot one because of a problem related to the OS.
If you ask a desktop OS to do a server's job, it will probably crack under the strain. Wow, who would have thought?
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:55
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It takes me on average 10 minutes to bring my desktop back to the state where I can start doing work again.
That's the problem. It's not the amount of time to reboot, but the amount of time to restart all the applications, and the disturbance in my work time... It's not good when I'm deep into a problem and have almost solved it...
If it costs 10 mins for each one of my 6 developers per week to reboot, that's an hour a week. 52 hours a year of work that it's costing.
Add to that the fact that sometimes Windoze just fucks up and a developer spends 2 hours trying to look in the team's code to see what's going on, and the solution is to reboot the OS...
Sure, for home use it may be fine. Who cares if it's buggy and unreliable.
But as a development platform, it's not stable enough and is slow compared to its main competitor.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 09:19
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 18:47 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 18:14 |
Whats the point of leaving your computer on all week unless its doing something?
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Im staying out of this argument due to a sheer lack of knowledge but i agree with JCMF as leaving PC's on for days on end results in a shorter life, I have cooked too many power supplies/fans etc to disagree with him and although they arent expensive it can be a headfuck to find one on a sunday, which is usually the day they pick to die
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What's the point in having a computer that you'd have to wait for it to boot up every time you want to do something with it?!
If I wanted to say, check session times for a movie, I walk into the study, spend 15 seconds loading up a website and then bugger off.
As for PSUs dying, you know the electrical components go through the most amount of stress during the power-up phase. When does a lightbulb blow?
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 09:42
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Hi,
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 16:13 |
River I didnt know people still even used Hyper Terminal!
That shit was teh B-0-M-B back in year 5!
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Yeah, it's a bit of a bomb, but it does the job. Most of my work involves developing microprocessor/microcontroller systems and I find H/terminal adequate for the simple tasks I ask of it.
If I need to get into serious comms analysis I use my HP4952 protocol analyser.
You forget how slow Win98 (and it's later OS's) are in booting up, when you see how quick the old 25Mhz 486SX boots up into Win3.1. Hey, my old PC/ATs get up into DOS pretty quick also - quicker than the old PC and PC/XTs I have.
seeyuzz
river
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 09:43
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 18:49 |
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 18:47 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 18:14 |
Whats the point of leaving your computer on all week unless its doing something?
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Im staying out of this argument due to a sheer lack of knowledge but i agree with JCMF as leaving PC's on for days on end results in a shorter life, I have cooked too many power supplies/fans etc to disagree with him and although they arent expensive it can be a headfuck to find one on a sunday, which is usually the day they pick to die
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What's the point in having a computer that you'd have to wait for it to boot up every time you want to do something with it?!
If I wanted to say, check session times for a movie, I walk into the study, spend 15 seconds loading up a website and then bugger off.
As for PSUs dying, you know the electrical components go through the most amount of stress during the power-up phase. When does a lightbulb blow?
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good point but my PC doesnt take ten minutes too boot up
2-3 minutes max and then im there
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 09:50
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 17:19 |
As for PSUs dying, you know the electrical components go through the most amount of stress during the power-up phase. When does a lightbulb blow?
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This is correct, it leaves the least stress for a computer to leae it running.
Meh, my desktop computer is always off cos my Mum bitches about wasting power. As MR 1GGTE said (OMG, I'm agreeing with him ), it only takes a couple of minutes and its up and running.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Want to rip microsoft off? Legally!
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Thu, 07 October 2004 09:52
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 19:20 |
As MR 1GGTE said (OMG, I'm agreeing with him )
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feels weird doesnt it
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