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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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 Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 05:10
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if you EVER want fuel injector data, check this out!
http://www.telusplanet.net/~chichm/tech/injectors. pdf
and for those that care, the 1986 XF falcon runs 214cc 2.50kpa injectors
got me thinking tho, can we set up something so we can add awesome bookmarks to an indexed web page, so we can all share all the good sites that we find??!
cheers
ed
HAPPY DAYS!!!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 05:17
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oh i care about the xf!
but are they the same impedance and plug type? if so.... well, ill have to get some wont i 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 05:25
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kev,
dont know about the plug type... but have a funny feeling that they will be the same (as other plugs off the XF loom are the same as my 5m) impedance is 16ohms, which doesnt matter as its higher than stock impedance, and will draw LESS current, which the ecu wont care about. test pressure is also 1psi LESS that stock, which is perfect (for me anyway)
check that link above for bosch no. 0 280 150 215
thats the 4.1L XF Falcon
goddamnit im good!!
cheers
ed
(rather happy he found a needle in a haystack, and the needle happens to be fitted to THE most abundant car at the wreckers!!)
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 06:06
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ok the 1psi less is good,
but can u use a 16ohm injector on a system designed to run like 2.4 ohms? (or thereabouts)
go get yourself a set and let me know how it goes
cheers ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 07:34
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kev, you're the one who was doing the degree in computer engineering and had to do a heap of electrical engineering stuff...you tell HIM if its going to work
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 07:53
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kev you lazy bastard... 
think about it... ecu supplies injector with 12v to open solenoid for given period of time. ecu is designed to cope with x number of amps to drive said solenoid. injector with higher resistance than stock still requires 12v, and will draw LESS current as it operates. ecu doesnt care about currents lower than that for which it was designed. it doesnt push the limits of the circitry at all. a lower resistance injector, on the otherhand, would be BAD, as it would draw more current, and possibly fry the ecu.
im not going to install the injectors for a while...so youre going to have to do it first, and let me know eh??
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 07:55
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I might have to 'find' some and see if they fit!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 08:09
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dave,
remember its the 4.1L not the 3.6L engine.
i think its also available out of the DE and DF series Ford LTD 4.1L's. i dont know anything about the falcons/fairlanes, but will be looking myself tomorrow. is the XF with the 65mm t/b the 4.1??
cheers
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 08:12
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and btw... whats with:
"all your turbo are belong to us"
reminds me of:
"learn to scubadiving"
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 08:15
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Umm, I think deep down GT's geek side is invading his automotive side...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 08:54
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yes i did the course, and yes i know some electrical circuits... but lets remember how many units ive failed
also, i still dont think you can just stick on high impedance injectors just because they should use less power
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 09:06
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Hey yall
I thought you couldn't swap injectors on a motor with a stnd ecu. I've got a late model 1ggte and I want bigger injectors in the system but I would like to keep the stnd ecu. Have yall heard of this with a 1ggte.
Cheers
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 11:07
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fuel injectors are not the most sophistocated things... essentialy a fancy solenoid...
as far as the ecu is concerned, its just thinking it has to switch on and off current to different solenoids at different times, for different durations. what the injector does with that current is totally up to it. if you put in a non stock injector, it will simply do what it wants to do with the current supplied by the ecu, and providing the ecu doesnt fry (cause you did something dumb like whack in really low impedance injectors) itll just tick away like nothings changed. its then up to 'you' to make the car run in tune by modifying fuel pressure, afm calibration etc so that stoichiomentric a/f mixes are attained.
first make sure the impedance isnt going to draw too much current from the ecu to go through its cycle.
second, look at the fuel pressure at which the injector is supposed to operate (gives the best spray) and what volume it flows at that pressure. look at your stock pressure and injector flow volume, and then how well you can modify fuel pressure to match the new injector, and provide the right fuel quantity per duty cycle.
if you can find an injector that wont fry your ecu by pulling too much juice to operate, and you can fiddle things to make it squirt the right amount of fuel, whats the problem??
the rest is practical stuff like loom plugs and fuel rail location etc etc...
cheers
ed
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 11:34
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So if the impedance is higher than stock then the ecu won't fry it's self? If the impedance was higher then wouldn't that require more current to actuate the injector hence overloading and frying the ecu? I'm not much for electrics but it's interesting.
If like you said you could mach up the impedance then you would just have to worry about the fuel pressure. With an adjustable fuel pressure regulator could you get over that hurdle and still have to stock ecu running ok with these larger injectors of same impedance just with more pressure? Seems like a cheap way out of an aftermarket ecu. Mind you it dose seem dicie playing with the fuel mixtures in such a way, a standard computer is a standard computer. Oh well it's only a 1g! I'll probably go out and f*#%k it tomorrow now!
Cheers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 11:38
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Here's a link to a tech article on swapping from high (430cc) to low (550cc) impedence injectorts on a JDM 2JZGTE'd MKIV Supra. I assume the same theory should apply to other Toyotas when retaining the stock ECU.
http://www.mkiv.co.nz/articles/injectors.htm
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 11:56
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japspec,
you got it in one. i know its counter intuitive to think that higher impedance means lower current, but just remember V=IR and V in this situation is a constant 12v... if R goes up, I (current) has gotta come down.
but you gotta find out exactly what your stock injector spec is before you go replacing it. not sure what the 1ggte is.
you nailed everything else on the head.
manny's article, above, describes going in the other direction from high to low impedance injectors (which would pull more current from the ecu and maybe fry it). in order to not fry the ecu with such an increase in current, the article is basically showing you how to add a resistor into the circuit to bring total impedance back up again and drop the current.
cheers
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 12:09
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oh, be careful not to drop fuel pressure too much below the injector's rating as spray will be copromised. as a rule dont drop more than 10psi which maens youre limited to an injector that flows about 15-20% more fuel at stock pressure. thats before afm mods etc.
heres an ok site:
http://minimopar.net/perf/fuel.html
comes from here, a good performance upgrade site:
http://minimopar.net/perf/index.html
cheers
ed
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 12:11
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Hey Manny
Top site. Very informative, wish I had a 2j to play with now! They spoke about the car only making mild increases in hp due to the richness of the fuel ratio with the bigger injectors but isnt it just a matter of now upgrading the turbo to force more air into the mix. The whole reason for my intetion to increase injector size is for upgrading of the turbo side of things.
Hey you still selling those snails of yours?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 12:28
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Japspec
I wish I had a 2J to play with. I'm just trawling throught the huge amount of 2J related info out there and seeing what's applicable to the 1J I do have to play with.
Yeah the Ct12As are off the market - took a 50% deposit on them on Monday.
Cheers
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 12:43
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Think about me, I've only got a 1g to play with!! I need all the info I can get!!!
Sorry to hear the turbs are gone I think they would do well in the set up I want, I saw all the reports on how good their condition was. It'll kill me if i go and by some huffers when I'm ready to start the work and they konk out on me 1000km later. Oh well I guess I'll just have to get something bigger now!
Cheers
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 12:46
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ed MA61
Reading through the site now. I feel my brain expanding as we speak!! Thank.
I'll inform you all if I blow myself up over the weekend!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 14:25
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I would have to agree 110% with ed_ma61 when it comes to injector impedance. I think its only natural that newer injectors will be engineered to use less energy and therefore have a higher impedance (assuming the same supply rail voltage, where i see no reason for increase).
If you are really worried about the ECU, which should have some form of overload protection in the driver circuitry (think about a wire short... a critical device like the ECU should be able to function when something like that happens in one of the many things it drives) in any case, you can use an isolater circuit (simple and cheap to make) which sits between the ECU o/p and the injector i/p. Since the injector drive signal is less than 10KHz in bandwidth (say even 20KHz) you can use fairly high latency, audio quality components (with commercial temperature tolerances i guess? or is industrial temperature tolerances required? I would think not...).
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Fuel Injector Holy Grail
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Fri, 24 May 2002 20:37
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I'll try it on the 5M.....ECU's are like $20. But it'll be OK anyway.
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