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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 08:01
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Hey guys,
I've had a quick search but didn't come up with anything. So here goes.
As most of you know, I'm putting a 1GGTE with high-flowed turbos into my GA61 Celica XX (Supra).
I'm thinking about purchasing a muffler, but its only 2.5". I was originally going to go a full 3" system, but have been advised by a couple of people that this would create a fair bit of drone, this being fixed with a resonator, but then thats just adding another restriction.
My theory was this, have a 3" dump and high-flow cat, then from the cat step down to 2.5" for the rest of the system. I've run this past a couple of knowledgable people (thanks Rob and CLG), but I thought I'd pop it out here for some opinions from the wider community.
I know turbos need minimal restriction, but how much really is the 2.5" rear section going to restrict it, and affect performance? My motivations for this were the cheaper cost of 2.5" piping and muffler, and not wanting drone as this will be my every day car.
Feel free to post anything constructive here, as I'm looking for feedback.
Cheers,
Nathan
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 08:05
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What the hell is going on? I keep posting in the General section!? 
Can someone please move this? 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 10:30
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well I have a 3" Mandrel bent Stainless jobbie on the pimper and for the four hours it was running it was moving at quite a more impressive pace...
Not droney at all and it sounds quite nice compared to other small block inline sixes i.e. RB20
I would reccomend the 3" if you are gonna wanna get some serious power out of the car.
But thats just MHO
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 11:37
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Having a 2.5" system didn't seem to affect my engine's output in any way...
Although 3" isn't too droney. 1G-GTEs are very quiet engines.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 12:29
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go 3in for sure
mine didnt drone at all and thats in a tiny celica,
prob drone on a NA but not on a turboed 6, i drove mine to exhaust shop with no exhaust was quiet till it hit boost
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 12:32
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| CrAiGzEE wrote on Fri, 08 October 2004 22:29 |
i drove mine to exhaust shop with no exhaust was quiet till it hit boost
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WTF?! Mine was quieter ON boost without an exhaust...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 14:38
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Its possible that it pays to keep an open mind with these mods.After all,back in the days 3" was considered EXTREME.
Just a thought-mass produced V8 twin 2" or 2.5" could be cut and shut for a cheap flow solution?
Go the little six! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 15:31
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| Nark wrote on Fri, 08 October 2004 21:07 |
Having a 2.5" system didn't seem to affect my engine's output in any way...
Although 3" isn't too droney. 1G-GTEs are very quiet engines.
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yeah but you wouldnt really know this untill you actually put a 3" exhaust on your car and had it dynoed, correct?
Or you might have already in which ccase i will just shut my mouth
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 08 October 2004 23:02
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Nah, I haven't so you're safe...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 00:17
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mines 3" with a cat and muffler and is very quiet, you can change the muffler over to just a 3" pipe.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 03:17
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then in that case dont scrimp and get a decent exhaust, youre not gonna run the motor stock are you?
If you are then dont bother becuase the extra money wont be worth it but if you are gonne do boost, management, cooler, etc etc then go the 3", the difference is only about $400 and I reckon it will be $400 well spent,or you could try and find a second hand system like I did and only pay $200
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 03:35
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3" is looking the go.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 03:40
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 09 October 2004 13:05 |
3" is looking the go.
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the little yellow boys show approval! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 03:43
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Haha. Well I figure if I've got these highflow turbos and a decent intercooler, with intentions to get an ECU and Hiperboost, I may as well go all out.
The main thing I was concerned about was drone, but I needed some more confirmation from other people with 1G's and 3" before I can make the call. I don't mind something with a bit of noise, the 1G has an awesome note.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 03:47
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well ill be honest at really low revs i.e. between 1000 and 2000 it is a bit droney but only a bit, however when you creep above that into 3000-7000rpm territory make sure your not near any old ladies as you may kill them with the glorious note that is produced from the rear end, its as if it farts pure gold 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 04:35
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Sat, 09 October 2004 13:47 |
well ill be honest at really low revs i.e. between 1000 and 2000 it is a bit droney but only a bit, however when you creep above that into 3000-7000rpm territory make sure your not near any old ladies as you may kill them with the glorious note that is produced from the rear end, its as if it farts pure gold
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are you a poet? 
JCMF: I would go 3" all the way. That is what I have on my 1jz which is pretty similar you would have to say and it is definitely not droney (even with no sound deadening and no interior ) and not loud either. No resonators or anything, just a HF cat and a muffler that does a little turn on the way through.
the 2.5" system on my old gz20 was barely audible unless you hammered. In which case, the turbos spooling were louder than it anyway
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 05:14
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As the person being honest said at around 2k can be droney,
think if you drive in 5'th at 60.. but wouldn't be that bad.
If you did decide to go 2.5", try and move the cat a little closer to the turbo's, this will let it heat up quicker, ---
and more importantly let the exhuast after the cat cool down
quicker. On non cat'd cars, as you get further down, the gas
cools quite a lot, so reduced in volume consideribly, thus it's
ok to goto a smaller diameter without effecting flow much (if at all)
The reason i say move the cat closer is that the cat heats
up the exhaust more since it burns off all the dodgy hydrocarbons etc, making the exhaust hotter (again).
Or you could leave the cat in current position (legal) and
just use the 2.5" right at the end.
Would be interesing to ask the exhaust shop to do a half job, ie
dump the 3" at the diff, go get a power run done, go back, get
a 2.5" added to complete the system, then power run again (or G'tek or whatever)
This would prove interesting data for everyone else, but would
depend on weather you can be bothered spending a saturday at the exhaust shop/surrounding streets testing!!
hope this helps!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 05:52
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Ah well, it can't be too bad. Its a pity no one really has experimented with the 3" front section and the 2.5" rear, seeing as the first bit of the exhaust will make the most difference. I've actually added extra sound deadening to the car, so I can't see it being a major problem based on these responses, and there will be no question about how well it will flow.
That is so true about the turbos though, mates GZ20 with factory exhaust is barely audible at all, until those babies spool
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 07:23
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| Chris Davey wrote on Sat, 09 October 2004 14:05 |
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Sat, 09 October 2004 13:47 |
well ill be honest at really low revs i.e. between 1000 and 2000 it is a bit droney but only a bit, however when you creep above that into 3000-7000rpm territory make sure your not near any old ladies as you may kill them with the glorious note that is produced from the rear end, its as if it farts pure gold
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are you a poet?
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What are you trying to say?
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 09:00
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Hi,
I am going to disagree with what hasd been advised to date. Until recently I ran a standard 1ggteu in may ta23. It had a 2.5 inch sytem with a resonator and largest possible turbo muffler. This car put out 139rwkw.
Recently I have moved to a single GT25/30 turbo, with lots of other mods - read members car to find out more. On advice from a someone that is well respected in the design of mufflers for performance cars I had constructed a split dump pipe - the wastegate joins in some 450mm down the 3 inch dump pipe. The dump pipe then flow into a 3 inch hi flow cat. After the cat to reduce down to 2.5 inch and fedd into the original 2.5 inch system with the hammer box and the turbo muffer. The car is quiet from the outside and there is no resonance. The theory provided to me by the disgner (and constructed) was that b the time the gases have exited the cat the tempature has dropped considerable and there is little advantage in contrinuing the 3 inch system. Keep in mind that this was not a cost saving action, remeber my latest changes cost over $8,500 so I was not worried about a few $,00, but rather I was ensuring that I maintained the same performance, could keep the pipe over the diff and had reasonable noise. The car is putting out 200rwkw at less than 13psi!
Craig
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Sat, 09 October 2004 09:12
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Haha, I was really hoping you'd comment This is what I'm looking for. Considering down the track I'd like to build an engine like yours, I may go back to the hybrid idea.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 03:57
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Just my 2cents.
I can confirm that the 1GGTE is not a droney engine. I have a straight thru 3 inch mandrel with an exhaust and cat that you can look through. The thing is quiet as, and definately doesnt drone! It screams at 7000 tho
I wanted a quiet car too as the old 18RG drone my ears deaf. But after driving my 1GGTE with no exhaust at all, i realised it was going to be quiet!
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 05:37
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SO will it be possible to just run a cat back (cat is 3 inch hiflow) 2.5 inch system without a rear muffler maybe a hotdog in the end with a nice tip
Im going to try and run a 2.5 inch cat back system and have a hiflow 3 inch cat in there and see what the results are what u guys think
im gussing the 3 inch hiflow cat willbe less restictive and so have more flow and because the gas is less hotter after the cat have a 2.5 inch system after the cat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 06:27
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I have a superhighflow cat, whos name isnt mittens 
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 06:31
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Mon, 11 October 2004 16:27 |
I have a superhighflow cat, whos name isnt mittens
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yeah thats fine
but im actually talking about having a cat converter in the exhaust not just pretending to have one
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 06:32
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| indian wrote on Mon, 11 October 2004 16:01 |
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Mon, 11 October 2004 16:27 |
I have a superhighflow cat, whos name isnt mittens
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yeah thats fine
but im actually talking about having a cat converter in the exhaust not just pretending to have one
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Said it before and what do you know ill say it again, im not pretending to have one, that would constitue gutting it, I dont have one fullstop...
ill leave this discussion now
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 11:51
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You have seen/heard my car in action. It seems to make the same power as everyone elses (150rwkw) and is quieter than a standard RA28 on cruise.
Craig is correct with the exhaust design, once the gas has cooled, it is carrying less energy and hence doesn't need the same flow rate. Except on WRX's which need a 5in exhaust with a 6in platnum tip.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 11:54
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| gold28 wrote on Mon, 11 October 2004 21:51 |
Except on WRX's which need a 5in exhaust with a 6in platnum tip.
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You forgot the 11" b00fer to keep the harmonics in the headers correct.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Mon, 11 October 2004 11:54
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Hehe, the image of your car exploding off the line in a flurry of tyre smoke is still etched in my mind (this is where we need a smiling smiley with a tear) .
What sort of exhaust do you have?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Thu, 14 October 2004 09:28
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Mine is 2.5in all through. reasonable size cat and fairly big muffler up back. All bends are mandrel too, although it is fairly straight for most of the length. Just a big hump over the diff.
The general concensus seems to be to go for a 3in but I don't think it is really necessary. Looking at the standard Y pipe on a 1G, I find it hard to believe that a 3in exhaust will make much of a difference.
Personally I think that better gains are to be had with smart intercooler plumbing and getting rid of or improving the flow of the standard Y pipe.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Thu, 14 October 2004 09:38
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You reckon there would be any merit to ripping the standard Y-pipe out and porting it and removing all the crap so it flowed better?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Thu, 14 October 2004 09:52
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I had though of doing exactly that but got lazy and decided it was all too hard.
I recon there would be some benefit in doing that. It is a pretty horrid flow path out the back of the turbine, and this is where the gas is carrying a lot of energy.
I would definitly consider cleaning it up if you have some time and the inclination. I don't know how much of a gain in peak power you will see, but it should help to make the turbo's more responsive. Obviously it ain't gonna be as good as custom Y pipes could be but it's worth a go. Just be careful not to let the wall thickness get too thin.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Thu, 14 October 2004 22:37
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isnt that cast iron or so btw how the hellcan u get it ported , maybe u can and i know shit all about it , but will this make any difference if it does then i might get that done with my exhaust any ideas where this can be done
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Thu, 14 October 2004 23:13
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hi there.....
i have a 3in mandrel. they are not droney at all... unlike the 1j's which are terrible in comparrison (drone wise)
it is fairly quiet..... even with the side pipe on it is not too bad - no cat or muffler.
i am changing mine again to a full stainless mandrel side pipe, with cat and speedway style muffler.
i would say to go the 3in.... just incase you get really serious later..... how much cheaper is the 2.5 in muffler than the 3 in?
by the way if you were on the right side of the country i have a 3in system from cat back that is sitting on my garage floor complete with muffler that will not fit back on my car.....
due to body mods....
Cheers
Stew
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Thu, 14 October 2004 23:18
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hmmm looks like 3 inch then , but then some say 2.5 inch wtf which ones better
anyone know fi the dump pipe of the stock turbo can be ported
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:03
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The most important part of the exhaust will be the first section when the exhaust gas is the hottest, so thats why i'm going 3" till after the cat then stepping down till 2.5".
Yeah, strictly speaking that Y-pipe is cast, but its not going to hurt it at all to remove a little bit and clean it up, so long as you don't go too thin.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:10
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will the exhaust shop be able to do that or should i take it to some other place 
anyone have a spare dump for sale , 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:19
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It's quite possible they could do it, I dare say a machinist or someone who has experience in porting should be able to do it.
Strictly speaking, it shouldn't be that hard to just smooth it all your yourself if you take your time.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:24
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Strictly speaking, it shouldn't be that hard to just smooth it all your yourself if you take your time.
how can i do it myself
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:26
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Remove Y-pipe. Buy dremel. Port out the inside of the Y-pipe a little to open it up a bit. Reinstall and be proud that you'd done something
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:32
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u reckon that will wok lollllllll, any recomendations how deep to go
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:34
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I cant believe I missed this, are you guys talking about porting the standard dump pipe??
is this possible?
wont it get too thin and crack?
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:39
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 10:34 |
I cant believe I missed this, are you guys talking about porting the standard dump pipe??
is this possible?
wont it get too thin and crack?
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yeah man thats what im thinking but i didnt know we can even port if cause it looked like cast shit , machining will be a pita dunno if the dremel will work though anymore suggestions
aftermarket dumps wont fit there no spacein the engine bay unless u wanna go 1.5 inch pipes from each turbo then maybe but still too much stuffing around me thinks
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:43
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Yep, thats what we're talking about. The key factor will be this:
| gold28 wrote on Thu, 14 October 2004 17:52 |
Just be careful not to let the wall thickness get too thin.
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It wouldn't take much to clean up all the carbon and even just smooth out all the jagged edges etc, before you removed anywhere near enough to make it crack. Actually opening it up I'd say there would be a little room for improvement there without getting it too thin.
Why would a dremel with the correct attachment not work? There is no reason for it not to.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:44
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| indian wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 08:39 |
yeah man thats what im thinking but i didnt know we can even port if cause it looked like cast shit , machining will be a pita dunno if the dremel will work though anymore suggestions
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Think of how many cast iron heads have been machined? Same rules apply, don't remove enough to cause damage (like enter a water jacket) while improving the flow and all is well.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 00:58
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well im not that very good at mechanical and electrical stuff so i better et aspare one and try on that first
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 01:00
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Easier than having your car off the road too.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1GGTE exhaust
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Fri, 15 October 2004 01:01
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hehehe too true , im off to the wanted section , lollllllllll
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