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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 01:53
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Did a little search, but couldn't turn up a thread.
Has there been a thread dedicated to this comparison. I know a little about the 3TGTE but not a great deal about the CA18DET, so anyone feel like venting their thoughts on the two and which is better, in their opinion.
Cheers, and no bashing of non-toyota engines. I'm sure you've got something better to do.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 01:57
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The CA18DET would have to be better? 16 valve, newer design head, timing belt. Lighter i'd imagine. More aftermarket parts for it.
Someone correct me if im wrong 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 03:10
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CA18 is a good motor.. a little rough though... but is capable of big numbers... lots of aftermarket support... can take a lot of detonation before it blows, hehe... AKA "the pinger" by many. Makes for a good boat anchor when you're done with it too... for such a small motor, it sure is heavy.
only problem with them motors is that whatever it came off, it is bound to have electrical problems... something nissan have to look at...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 03:33
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yeah the numbers it can punch out is awsome but i have heard that there a a few electrical and mechanical problems that occur when those numbers start coming out... thats why the SR20DET series 1 was released, it got rid of all the electrical issues and some minor mechanical issues were also fixed but still crappy... after that they released the SR20DET series 2 (S15) and this had all issues resolved and is an amazing motor
the CA18 was the smallest of them all but is still quite heavy, the SR20 S1 was bigger and the SR20 S2 is the biggest...
but back to the CA18... apart from electrical issues (which were fixed by aftermarket ECUs, it is known for pinging, and block related issues, always looses compression when high power fed through it constantly... yeah your gonna say all motors do that but the CA18 is the quickest to get cylinder issues... also for some reason they have alot of problems with the stock turbo... but at the end of the day with all aftermarket stuff every issue with the motor disappears except for the motor problems
onw you can get it all acid bathed and nitrided and all that other stuff they do and that will get increase life a bit but it will always remain the first one they released and will have the most problems...
in my opinion your better going for the 4WD pulsar turbo motor or 200sx S14 turbo motor... dont quote me on this cause im not sure but i think the pulsar and 200sx S14 are different BUT not sure
at the end of the day your best bet is to go to a nissan forum and get info on the CA18DET there
as for the 3TGTE it is BLOODY strong as, i would say peak power it is capable of would be round 200-250rwkw MAX, 250rwkw would start blowing things inside
also to get that power from the 3T would require a bank, but the CA18DET wouldnt be as bad money wise
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 03:46
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fade-e is right about the ca18 being cheaper to mod... has more aftermarket support...
the 3t is a better motor i think (i've owned ca18's before, lots of headaches)
my guess is you chose these 2 motor's cause they're both pretty cheap.
and to clear up about sr20's... in some ways they are inferior to the ca18 even (hydraulic lifters on all but the GTIR version whereas the ca18 had solid lifters).. but could be fixed with aftermarket parts. To y knowledge, there have been 3 generations of sr20's plus a hybrid here and there. Gen 1 came in the s13 (silvia, 180sx) and u12 and u13 bluebirds (jap imports). Gen 2 is what is in the s14 and s15 200sx'... they're equipped with VCT (read: vvt-i). Gen 3 is the super rare sr20ve (jap pulsar SSS) and sr20vet (jap X-trail GT, 206kw standard)..
gen 2 had vct (variable cam timing... like toyota's vvti)
gen 3 had ve, vet (variable valve timing with lift... like honda's vtec and toyota's vvtl-i).
there was a hybrid gen 1 version which came in the pulsar gtir... had no special cam technology, though it did have solid lifters, better turbo, and quad throttles...
went a little off track, but just had to add in with my nissan knowledge....
between the 2 motors you said, i'd take the ca18 if you want bang for your buck... or the 3T if you want to keep it in the family.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 06:15
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ive had a ca18det 180sx auto, ive been in quite a few turbo cars being a apprentice mechanic, and i have to say was pretty shocked how good it went being completely stock. More after market parts for them too and as everyone else says yeh newer motor. But taking a wild guess 3tgte being a toyota motor should hav stronger internals. P.s ive never been in a car with a 3tgte so i wouldnt know much about them.
I know this info wont help much, jus thoghut id give u my input though 
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Wed, 20 October 2004 07:22
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My opinions on this, and remember this is very much opinion.
- They're both old engines, the 3T more so, unless they have been rebuilt they will have age related reliability issues.
- They both have direct Cam on Bucket valve actuation, a very good thing and the biggest reason not to use SR20's.
- The CA has a good head design, the 3T has a woeful head design
- You can swap a 2TG head onto the 3T, weather this is a good thing or not depends on the choices made
- The CA was designed as an overhead cam engine however the 3T was designed as a OHV engine and still has the lifter bores etc.
- The 3T has really strong rods and crank, also has a nice short stroke, I'm not sure on the strength of these parts in the CA
- The CA uses a cam belt and is easy to get cam gears etc for, the 3T has a cam chain and tiny cam gears making adjustable gears custom all the way.
- The CA has a T25 flange exhaust manifold allowing sheap upgrades in the turbo department, the 3T has a CT20 flange that can be modified to fit a CT26
- There is simply a hell of a lot more aftermarket parts and knowledge available for the CA than there is for the 3T.
What it boils down to is if you are after a cheap easily available and easily modified engine the CA is probably the better choice.
I'm sure Rod and Jason will have some opinion to add to this when they see it.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Thu, 21 October 2004 01:18
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i belive they cost about the same to mod mildly but when it comes to aftermarket intakes cams ect the ca18 has almost as much availible as the sr20. i take a ca18 over a 3t for this reason alone but as i already have a 3t im not going to change it for a nissan motor.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Thu, 21 October 2004 07:32
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Having owned both of these motors in variuous states of trim I would have to say that the comparison is a hard one..
I have found both motors to be fairly reliable. If you are going for a rebuild (needed on both engines for serious power) and go to the expense of forged pistons then I would tend to favour the Toyota motor.
Many people Choose the CA18DET over the SR20 because of its revvy nature. Well the 3T has an even shorter stroke and loves to rev.. But then it depends on the car you want to put the engine into. If your car is a toyota then I can see no reason to fit a CA18. The other aspect is the availability of good cheap strong gearboxes.. A measure that again sees the 3T win over...
If you are planning to keep the motor stock then the CA18 is probably the better bet... (As the 3T's have a tendancy to eat standard pistons) If your going to rebuild then there is no question I would choose the 3T... Bored out to 2 litres these make formiddable engines... There Rods and cranks are near on impossible to break whereas I have seen my fair share of broken ca18 rods
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Thu, 21 October 2004 08:35
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I have not owned a CA18 - my 3T makes reasonable numbers on std internals (save for forged pistons and a balance).
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Thu, 21 October 2004 09:47
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Thanks guys. Really appreciate the time spent on your behalf.
At the moment I'm not interested in a Rebuild. I will be heading to University again next year, so its a bang for buck weekend car. My TA22, was embarrased by a laughing Crewman SS. Full of teenage punks. I'm sick of the lack of power from the 2TGEU. When the car looks soo good, people expect results and at the moment I can't come up with the goods. Not to mention the more fun I could have.
feel free to keep the comments coming. Thanks, again.
ps. very slim chance I will choose the SR20DET - I don't like to follow the trend. Possibly a reason I'm steering away from the 3TGTE
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Toyotary?
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Thu, 21 October 2004 14:51
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| T APLUS 22 wrote on Thu, 21 October 2004 19:17 |
I'm sick of the lack of power from the 2TGEU. When the car looks soo good, people expect results and at the moment I can't come up with the goods. Not to mention the more fun I could have.
ps. very slim chance I will choose the SR20DET - I don't like to follow the trend. Possibly a reason I'm steering away from the 3TGTE
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what are your opinions on 13B/12a mazda rotary engines?
i have been considering many different engine swaps for my celica for much the same reason as you, the SS for example..  my 18R-geu does the hard yards but in the end would get eaten by anything with above average power, which is a pity for all the fiddling/dollars spent on the engine etc..
But ive been thru toyota and nissan 4 banger engines and was thinking maybe 3T, 3S, CA or SR, but i want less weight if possible.. the 18R is so heavy up front i think either a hot 4A-GTE or the lighter rotary would be a good change, even out body wieght distribution, and in the case of mazda motor: something different.. and can be intimidating popping a loud flame next to the punks in a Crewman SS before you buzz away from them hehe..
maybe a little custom work involved for install- but still a fair bit of aftermarket parts available, good power in standard trim for S4/5 13B turbo motors can be made to produce upto 200RWkw with stock internals bolt on mods.. Even naturally aspirated hi compression motors go hard, mild porting and weber carby/injection and your laughing 
but then again unless you buy injected motors, rebuilds are usually a good idea.. which are often costly 
[Updated on: Thu, 21 October 2004 14:54]
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Thu, 21 October 2004 22:02
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Still keeping to the bang-for-buck theme, then I will recommend the 3T because it will bolt into your TA22 with ease.
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Fri, 22 October 2004 17:53
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u guys are soooooo lucky to have all those old school imports down there, in such good condition - looks like paradise.
Dunno how much that hull weighs, but a ca18 will fling around a 23-2400 pound hull like its a rag doll. Stock unopened motor and an sr t25 can get u into the 12s. A t28 or 16g will get u 11s. All this still while using the nissan ecu, piggybacked or eprom.
I've been driving a ca18det swapped into my u.s. 240sx for 4 years now and not one single problem. Motor is whisper quiet and ac blows cold still. No electrical probs whatsoever. I don't 'abuse' it tho' - yet.
Aging SRs and CAs will show u rod bearing issues if u beat on 'em. I see it as an 'old nissan 4 cylinder thing'. Refresh them. If u eventually plan to go ballistic, I'd at least get it balanced (smoothens it out noticeably). Some cam angle sensors go wak.
Stock pistons, rods and head gasket hit 400hp but I'm told this is at the limit.
Recently on the uk forums, a 'built' ca18 made 471 ft-pounds of torque fed by a 'puny' 20G turbo. Thats one SICK 1.8L STREET car!!!
CA is not -that- much bigger or heavier than a 4agze - very similiar lumps actually.... but substantially more powerful. I feel toyotas may have the edge in durability. In the u.s. the mitsu 2.0L turbo is king ...one tough cookie.
u wanna keep it toyota ? this 7AG 1.8L may work for u
http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=86813
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Fri, 22 October 2004 23:32
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| quest wrote on Sat, 23 October 2004 03:53 |
Dunno how much that hull weighs, but a ca18 will fling around a 23-2400 pound hull like its a rag doll. Stock unopened motor and an sr t25 can get u into the 12s. A t28 or 16g will get u 11s. All this still while using the nissan ecu, piggybacked or eprom.
http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=86813
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My 3T ran my car (@ 2320 lbs) to a best of 13.0 @ 103mph unopened, using stock CT20 POS turbo - ran as lean as a bastard and popped from half track - with more fuel I am guessing 12.90s were there for the taking.
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Location:
Wellington, NZ
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 3TGTE Vs CA18DET
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Sun, 24 October 2004 00:38
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Hey guys, i havent read the whole thread as i gotta go but i've read most and will give you my opinion.
I owned a 89 Nissan 180sx auto, when brought it it had the typical boy racer trims, full veilside bodykit, HKS exhaust, some biscuit rims lol and the drivers seat from a skyline. Engine had some mods to it, cams turbo and injectors. Engine was pumping out 300HP on stock ecu and was a ball of fun, never had any of the typical electrical probs, engine never missed a beat. Parts were easy to source and the engine was ok to work on. While i had the car i brought a TA celica, 3tgte powered, engine went lovely for around 1000K's then she blew. Parts were a shocker here, engine was more difficult to work on, and overall for the work i did, id rather spend it on the ca18det. Im in no way flaming toyota engines, i love my 4age a 7agte, but i personally think the ca18det has the 3tgte over.
just my 2cents
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