| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
|
Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 01:58
 
|
 |
I have an ST205 factory clutch, flywheel & pressure plate sitting at home which I may be convinced to let go of.
If you still have the factory clutch at 183 000km, you must either drive it like a granny, or you actually know how to drive an all wheel drive properly.
I've heard that the uprated 205 clutches aren't worth much salt as it increase the pressure on the gearbox, dunno bout 185 versions though.
Due to the all wheel drive nature of the GT4, you need a weak point in the drivetrain. Normally thats the friction between the tyre & road on a 2wd, but can't do it on a 4wd, so the clutch is that weak point instead. Its designed to be a wearable part that's "relatively" easy to change.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 02:46
|
|
Interesting.
So is an exedy 'too good' for the gearbox?
|
|
|
Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 02:50
|
|
Seeing as your standard one lasted so long, I would guess that you could have a better clutch without it causing problems with breakages.
WRX's have gearbox problems because of the button clutches & high rpm dumps that people do, no other reason. I imagine its the same with AWD Toyotas.
Not experienced with AWD Toyotas so I couldn't answer your question bout the Exedy, but I've heard the TRD item isn't worth the money.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 02:57
|
|
Well that makes perfect sense to me.
What's your opinion on the sticky 1st and 2nd gears? Do you think there is a relationship with a worn clutch?
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 03:29
|
|
| wagonist wrote on Thu, 21 October 2004 11:58 |
I've heard that the uprated 205 clutches aren't worth much salt as it increase the pressure on the gearbox
|
Steve, I have an organic clutch with my ST205 gearbox. How long would one of these typically last, "sensible" driving conditions? 
What kinds of clutch ARE good with the ST205 gearbox?
(Sorry to thread-hijack..  )
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 03:50
|
|
Come on, who has EVER broken a GT4 gearbox that was well maintained and setup correctly?? Zippo.
An uprated clutch is a must if you want to put power to the ground on launches and trust me you won't break the drivetrain. If your car is only lightly modded then a 205 setup will do the job nicely...they are a good clutch straight from factory. Some exedy setups are great others not worth the cash so talk to someone who knows the product to get good value.
If you can wrangle trade as i do a 205 clutch kit is only $180 which is great value. Labour costs to fit are the killer.
I've run more gearbox and clutch combos than anyone i know so pick a power level and i'll tell you what i ran that worked.
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 03:58
|
|
Ok, so typically you set it up to work to the hardest conditions you want to put it through right?
Say if you want to do occasional ¼-mile times and the rest of the time like normal street use. If you want a clutch that's strong but won't break off your left foot to operate?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Thu, 21 October 2004 05:10
|
|
I can vouch for the ST205 clutch as well. I'm only putting out moderate power (around 175Kw or so) and its fine, no slips after many hard drag launches.
I'm currently rebuilding my engine and am looking at around 230Kw and the end, and will probably stick with the ST205 unit until it starts to wear out.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 02:14
|
|
|
That's pretty much right. The 205 clutch is very user friendly on the left leg, that's what it sounds like you should use
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 02:18
|
|
|
230kw at the wheels will toast a 205 clutch 1st launch. I have a tad less and toasted a twin plate organic in around 10K. Had to go to a twin plate button to get no slip and therefore reduce wear.
|
|
|
Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 02:33
|
|
| Quote: |
Come on, who has EVER broken a GT4 gearbox that was well maintained and setup correctly?? Zippo.
|
sorry dude:
Ask Turbo_Caldina how he broke his bellhousing in his ST195 Caldina with ST185 running gear.
|
|
|
Location:
Vic
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 02:44
|
|
Perhaps you could tell us and save us the hassle? 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 02:48
|
|
| JustenGT4 wrote on Fri, 22 October 2004 12:18 |
230kw at the wheels will toast a 205 clutch 1st launch. I have a tad less and toasted a twin plate organic in around 10K. Had to go to a twin plate button to get no slip and therefore reduce wear.
|
Nah, 230Kw at the flywheel approx. I don't have deep enough pockets for 230Kw at the wheels  So lets say 160-170Kw at the wheels.
|
|
|
Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 03:01
|
|
|
One clutch dump off the line too many with a button clutch.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 04:22
|
|
A bell housing is not a gearbox, i'd bet money that there was some other issue that caused that failure albeit the final clutch dump was the catalyst.
There are a alot of big hp cars out there experiencing good reliability not to mention a heap of competition cars.
A GT4 box failure is by far the exception and not the rule as say for a WRX. If you're talking a GrpA or 205 box then even more so.
I have no qualms putting 400hp flywheel thru a stock box and driveshafts with the only consideration being a good quality fully synth gear oil.
|
|
|
Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 04:29
|
|
True, it was just the bellhousing. The gears survived intact.
I still think you should leave the clutch as a weak point in the 4wd drivetrain. Its the easiest to replace in terms of availability, etc
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 04:39
|
|
Anyone know if it is possible to fit a ST205 clutch kit straight into a 185??
I just got some quotes for both clutch kits, the 185 is far more expensive (205:$225, 185:$600!!  ) . Naturally I would go for the 205 as it is cheaper, and better from what i've been told.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 04:55
|
|
Yup 205 kit is a straight bolt in the 185.
Wagonist, yes you need a fuse or you just replace bits as they break...fact of life if you want to go fast.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 04:58
|
|
SWEET!!!!!!
I will order one from toyota today!
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Fri, 22 October 2004 13:18
|
|
Group A box's are bomb proof. It wont be long before wrx's try to use them  . I have used harsh brass button 3 puck clutches and the only thing I have managed is to re sculp some interesting pressure plates.
Its your syncros or pressure plate not your clutch. Clutches slip.... pressure plates and gear syncros is what crunches.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Sun, 24 October 2004 23:05
|
|
I just rang Neal Bates auto in Hume, Canberra.
I asked how much it would cost to get the new clutch fitted. I was quoted $1800 for 20 hours work , as I was told that the engine and gearbox have to be removed.
Is this right?
|
|
|
Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Sun, 24 October 2004 23:13
|
|
|
To fit a new clutch to the GT4 the engine and gearbox have to be removed, i don't know if that labour is rite as i'm not a mechanic.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Sun, 24 October 2004 23:17
|
|
I got another quote for $850. But it sounded like this place had never done this sort of work before.
Damn, I never thought it would be this costly 
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Sun, 24 October 2004 23:30
|
|
The engine has to be removed as well, wow, that's f*cked up. I thought axles out, mounts off and unbolt it from the engine and transfer case, but I'm quite often wrong  .
Is there an online BGB for the ST185 anywhere?
Here's a 91 mr2 one anyways, I thought it would have been similar to this?
MR2 online BGB
Pulling out the MR2 Tranny
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Sun, 24 October 2004 23:33
|
|
|
Well I had a look at my Chilton's manual, and maybe I didnt look hard enough but I didnt come accross and engine removal. I'm not very happy
|
|
|
Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Sun, 24 October 2004 23:43
|
|
|
Yea u can't get the box off with out dropping it down a little bit, so with hoist on hand it would be easy.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Mon, 25 October 2004 00:20
|
|
I've rang a few other places, ranges from $750 to $1000. Even Toyota said around the $1000 mark, so I dont know where this Neal Bates place is coming from.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Mon, 25 October 2004 04:10
|
|
Welcome to owning a GT4.
Unless you can do most (if not all) the work yourself, these cars are a money pit.
As Justen already told you earlier in the thread, the labour costs are the expensive part of this repair, not the clutch iteself.
My gearbox/clutch was swapped with the engine still in the car, but obviously supported properly or else the thing will remove itself from the engine bay without consultation
If you aren't in a hurry.. I'd put that $1000 towards and engine crane , jack stands, trolley jack and a good tool kit. Have a go. You may suprise yourself, either way you'll definitely learn a lot.
If you are in a hurry, then bend over $$$ wise, cause as you've discovered, the workshops charge hefty amount per hour.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Mon, 25 October 2004 04:45
|
|
I'd get that quote in writing before getting them to start... or else expect that phone call when they realise the extent of the work required. Sure they know its a GT4, not a regular Celica?
Most shops charge out at about $65 per hour.. so thats only 10 hours work. Thats a bloody quick clutch/gearbox change on a GT4.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: New clutch for Celica GT4 ST185??
|
Mon, 25 October 2004 05:19
|
|
I was advised of that already by Justen (the quote on paper)
Pretty much all the places I spoke to, first checked their manuals to quote number of hours etc. The GT4 came up as 8-10 hours.
The only place that quoted any different was neal bates auto. They quoted 20 hours +, at $1800 all up. That guy said the entire engine/gearbox needed to be removed.
So either the 10 or so places that quoted 8-10 hours made a mistake (even though the specifically listed the GT4, and one of these places includes Toyota) or Neal Bates likes to do things the hard, expensive way.
|
|
|
