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Location:
Narellan
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Thu, 03 October 2002 12:57
 
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hey mate,
i did this exact same thing with mine, all i can say is dont do it, the car will run rough gradually. It will work for a while but then you will find that it will completly f*#k up, ie run rich, stall, run generally rough.
as i said i am saying this from experience, please trust me and save yourself the hassle, do it the right or you will regret it, i know i did.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Thu, 03 October 2002 14:15
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These are merely 'tips' as I have no idea if it will work. It 'would' but I'd rather find the right ECU.
1) the TPS sould swap over instead of the throttle body
2) the 86Kw use to low or high resistance injectors. I cannot remember. You need to ensure the the 86 ecu is controlling the correct resistance or bye-bye. This should be done on someone else's car check resistance of someone with 86Kw motor and ecu.
3) take the cover off the ecu, and reading the wiring connectors off the pcb board, ensure all the wires are going to the correct place (following colour of wires) --This may be painful and time consuming but it may save your ass. If I had digi cam I could show you the diff in RWd 86KW ECu and early 100Kw comp (non-knk sensed)
4) Tvis control PCB name - STH, can just be not be connected. It may give you error but I doubt it is a 'hard' fault that will stop the motor reving out.
Best of luck,
you could save yourself alot of hassle by finding the correct ECU.
I take it you have the 100Kw loom which increases ease (when using 100Kw ecu)
Jaz
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Thu, 03 October 2002 14:16
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Ignore my post. Trust experiance
Jaz
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Location:
Narellan
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sat, 05 October 2002 00:02
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When you did this conv. did you use the injectors out of the 100kw or 86kw motor? Also what did you do with the TVIS wiring?Maybe I should swap the 86kw inlet manifold over as well. I'll have to try all options before making my mate fork out for a new computer. The conversion had nothing to do with the quest for power in this case, it was a case of 86kw finally dies after 337 000km's and at $600 a 100kw motor from an import wrecker was a better option than rebuilding the original. Maybe I should have stuck with the 86kw version and avoided the hassle.
Thanks anyway dude. I'll keep you posted if I accidently find out how to make it work.
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Location:
Narellan
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sat, 05 October 2002 09:44
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Well the conversion is complete and it runs spot on, and I've only had a guess at the timing. Once I get a timing light on it will become a daily driver again. I'll keep you posted on how it goes but so far so good.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sun, 06 October 2002 03:44
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why not just use the 100kW short block with all the existing 86kW components, sensors, head, ecu?? i know this defeats the purpose of having the small port head, but with the increased compression inside the engine, it will make more power. i have often though about doing this exact mod with my engine and carrying over the 100kW injectors only (250cc(???) vs 186cc), and of course the deletion of the injector resistor so the ECU sees the correct impedance load of the injectors.
however if you wanted, you could run an ECU from a japanese spec "largeport" motor, as these are tuned to produce 96kW from 100 octane fuel on the largeport motor. an advantage of this is you will have similar power and the added advantage of lighter weight internals (crank and rods) of the bigport engine for better throttle response, rev happiness!!!
good luck with whatever you choose...
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Location:
Coffs
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sun, 06 October 2002 05:06
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What are the Specs for the Jap version of the 4AGE TVIS Blue Top with MAP sensor??
On this site http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil.bradshaw/4AGE% 20into%20RWD.htm it says .
Produced 83.5-87.5
Engine 4A-GEU
Capacity (cc) 1587
Bore x Stroke (mm) 81.0x77.7
Comp Ratio 9.4
Load Signal MAP
Induction & Head TVIS Big Port head
No of Ribs on Block 3
Gudgeon Pin Dia (mm) 18
Big End Dia (mm) 40
Crank Journal Dia (mm) 48
Oil Cooled Pistons No
Ignition Distributor
Cam Cover Writing Blue & Black
PS @ rpm 130 @ 6600
kg-m @ rpm 15.2 @ 5200
kW @ rpm 95.5 @ 6600
Nm @ rpm 149 @ 5200
Is this right??
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sun, 06 October 2002 09:19
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the japanese usually rate their engines higher, at least in the eighties, than they actually produce. it would produce less than 95kw. for example they rated the e15turbo from the exa at 86kw when in australia the engine only put out 76kw.
anyway im tossing up the idea of doing the exact same thing - ie using the bluetop ecu on the 100kw motor.
dorikin - where is the injector resistor located? in the injector itself or separate. - its not on the wiring diagram?
whats the injector impeadance of the 86 and 100kw injectors?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sun, 06 October 2002 12:20
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Ummmm I have a ae92 100Kw ECU. I ahve no need for it so if ppl wanna offer....
I also have a 'partial' loom. don't know what's there and what not.
The ecu is 1990 I beleive (from dist cords) and the p/n is:
89661-12031
ND 175700-0520 | 12v
Not for knock sensor.
thinking of a number over $149.99 for both??
Jaz
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Sun, 06 October 2002 12:28
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ok... now i'm not exactly 100% sure of thise, but it makes sence to me. if i am wrong could someone please correct me.
the largeport motor had injectors with 182cc flow at 2.55kg/cm^2 pressure. these were "low" impedance 2.0 ohm injectors. these are identified by the dark grey "C" type connector. there are also some pink coloured injector plugs. these are 200cc and ahve impedance 2.7 ohms.
the 1987.8 - 1989.8 smallport (100kW) engine had injectors with 213cc flow at 2.90kg/cm^2 pressure. these are the "high" impedance 13.8 ohm injectors. these can be identified by the beige "F" type injector plug. there is also a blue coloured injector plug, flowing 210cc and impedance of 2.4ohm
later model 100kW engines from 1989 onwards had injectors with 250cc flow at 2.90kg/cm^2 pressure. tese were also the "high" impedance injectors with 13.8 ohm and can be identified by either a green or violet "F" type connector (depending on whether is was MAP or AFM engine).
now if you consider that a low impedance load will allow a high current to flow, hence generating more heat!!! to combat this problem, it is common for ECU's that are coupled with "low" impedance injectors are fitted with a resistor to "show" the ECU a higher load, and hence lower current and less heat generated at the ECU. this resistor in turn dissapates the heat with a heat sink. it can be identified on a largeport 4AGE by an alloy heatsink type box about the size of a box of cigarettes located within the engine bay with a small loom coming from it, heading from the injector loom.
if you then want to use high impedance injectors in place of low impedance injectors, you will require to remove the resistor, otherwise if there is too great a load (high impedance injector and resistor) the ECU will not be able to supply enough current to trigger the injectors.
it would seem to me that the best upgrade in injectors for a largeport motor would be the 210cc injectors with the blue plugs as these have similar impedance and would not cause any problems with fitment to an existing "largeport" loom and ECU, resistor included!!!
now i think i got it pretty sorted with this post, if you have further questions, ask away...
oh by the way... i'd like to think that those listed specs on the JAP MAP 4AGE largeport motor are correct. i believe them, but then again, who's going to put thier engine on an engine dyno to prove them right, or wrong!!!
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Location:
Coffs
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Mon, 07 October 2002 09:44
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So if I had the Jap verion and was running the stock Oz ECU it wouldnt run or would but not as good as it should???
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Mon, 07 October 2002 10:30
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I agree that like current days, Toyota may have detuned the motors to meet the fuel quality in Oz.
Don't forget that Oz was new to Unleaded fuel. Wasn't introduced till mid 85 I think.
As for 100kw, the fuel may have been good enough for Toyota to leave the computer the same. Tho, I don't know much about 100Kw and what was sold in Oz in terms of 4AG.
For the 96Kw vs 86Kw debate:
How can a slightly more restrictive head, higer compression lead to a massive 14Kw gain? I think the diff is 4Kw, but if the tuning was crap, 86Kw may have been what it was.
Those with RWD 4AG:
bigport, 1984, grey inj, jap import map motor
89661-12051
ND 175700-0182
Jaz
[Updated on: Mon, 07 October 2002 10:31]
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Tue, 08 October 2002 09:50
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yeah I agree, 14kw seems to much. but on closer inspection...
the 100kw actually has slightly less agressive cams than the 86kw version. dont know how much better the 100kw head flows than the 86kw.
did you know the 100kw engine only puts out 94kw when run on normal unleaded and only puts out 100kw when on pulp.
also the mr2 bigport motor in australia was rated at 88kw. dont know what the diff was tho.
the compression increase to 10.3 from 9.4 is a 9.6% increase. so if we multiply the 88kw of the mr2 by 9.6% we get 96.4 kw. so the power gains the small port motor have is mostly due to its increased compression. the remainder mostly likely comes from better efi mapping.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Tue, 08 October 2002 14:11
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I think we're splitting hairs a bit much here 
That said, the few different 100kw ae92's (factory) I've driven have all seemed pretty dull a lifeless to me, whereas a couple of ae86 engines in various cars have seemed MUCH more interesting, although I suspect this could be a lot to do with final drive...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Wed, 09 October 2002 08:12
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i agree... my stock Jap spec MAP 4AGE (88kW/96kW - call it what you will) is bucket loads faster than any (stock) AE92 Twin Cam. i have driven them and i agree that although they aren't slow, they are quite "lifeless" when compared to my 4AGE TA22...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Wed, 09 October 2002 08:44
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Could it have something to do with the extra weight of the AE92?
I am pondering a conversion for my ae92 if this current auto trans dies... If the 100kw feels lifeless then I may aswell stick with my lifeless 4afc.
Does the 20v feel rev happy / go harder ?
A GZE is a possibility too, and was almost on the cards until my last auto trans died and dad refused to 1/2 fund a conversion heheh.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Wed, 09 October 2002 09:25
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oops, i hope mrshin and myself have not started something here. it's wrong to compare different engines in different cars, although...
remember we are comparing a 88kW engine in a light car, and a 100kW engine in a heavier car. but don't forget we also argue about the factory numbers given by toyota!!!
we are curious as to what accounts for a massave 14kW boost between the two engines, apart from compression...
of course head flow is a big part and then the bigger injectors supply more fuel for increased power. but still, these engines have a less aggressive cam with lower lift and duration. what's the secret to all the power increase???
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Location:
Coffs
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Fri, 22 April 2005 15:44
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So with all these knowledgeable people why doesnt someone make a definitive installation guide?
my ae82 engine is stuffed so its a given that I am going to buy an import 4ag, I would love to fit the 100kw model but I dont want to have to spend a great deal extra or have the car out of action for too long. I already know I have to get the 100kw clutch with the engine, but does anyone else know what has to be swapped around between the engines? perhaps some could post where all the vacuum lines go and what happens with the TVIS. as I said again I would love the 100kw especially with the stronger bottom end and better lubrication, i plan to do some amateur hillclimbs and autokhanas later in the piece so this would be beneficial.
anyway there has been some really helpful stuff posted already and any further info is greatly appreciated.
cheers shoom
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 100kw conversion
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Fri, 22 April 2005 23:04
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i would say the extra power is from:
better flow of the head and intake
different ecu tuning
extra compression
injecters/efi system.
beter exhaust manifold (thats a suggestion/guess!)
then theres the factory numbers and the actual numbers.... the gain may or may not be 12kw! but i coudl esily belevie 12kw is gained from the above.
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100kw conversion
