| Author | Topic |
|---|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Fri, 05 November 2004 03:49
 
|
 |
Yeah the chrarcteristic vent in the bonnet itself... I think it might be insulation of some sort, but it keeps the water out and at the same time lets hot air escape. 
|
|
|
Location:
newcastle
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Fri, 05 November 2004 08:35
|
|
some sort of felt I was told once 
mine doesn't have anything there either
engine gets a good clean when it rains 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Fri, 05 November 2004 09:36
|
|
I've been looking at domain names for the list/registry. A couple of available ones are
www.gt4grpa.com
www.grparallye.com
www.grpa.com
www.gtfourgrpa.com
What do you guys think? Any other ideas? I can also add hyphens. It's got to be something easy to find and remember.
gtfour.com gt-four.com st185.com gt4.com are all taken.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Fri, 05 November 2004 10:05
|
|
Just a suggestion...... www.1of150.com
I also like www.grpa.com cause its short and easy to remember.I know of 3 aussie delivered Group A's that have been written off. One in Sydney, another in Orange and another based in Melbourne which clapped it it out in Targa Tasmainia about 4 years back now. I have no idea what numbers they were 
We are a dying breed people. Please donate any money to the Group A fund and save us from extinction 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 06 November 2004 00:16
|
|
| sikx5 wrote on Sat, 06 November 2004 09:46 |
| bergerac wrote on Fri, 05 November 2004 13:38 |
White stuff? nothing but metal on mine... but it had the underbonnet insulation removed before I bought it...Do you mean the main vent?
|
I just ripped mine of my group A, its like aircondition insulation, like those insulation you put in your room, except with a black cover over them to hold it all together.
|
yer mines not there either.....its nice seeing the steam come off ur exhaust manifold wen u brake hard and the water gets on it
and then wen its a clear day just seeing the heat waves wen ur sitting at the lites.....
oh yer i rekon www.grpa.com is the bomb too
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 06 November 2004 00:26
|
|
| Puffy wrote on Fri, 05 November 2004 21:05 |
We are a dying breed people. Please donate any money to the Group A fund and save us from extinction
|
Or we can do like some and take the bits of written off/modified/totally widly modified ( that means YOU justen ) and rebuild other GT4's to carry on the group A spirit , without leaving their parts to be whored By SX's , RWD platforms and kit cars
I hereby commission the DIY Group A mongrel/hybrid registry - members 1 - ME!
St185 GT4 group A hybrid #1 - Owner - Stuart stephens
St185 group A engine from justens red carlos sainz
Internal mods :
St205 Group A Cams + Shim under bucket swap ( ala St205 )
Forged pistons on St205 rods
TRD HD bearings + gaskets
ARP bolts holding it all together
St205 Group A Gearbox
St185 group a Ct26 turbo
St185 Group A Front bumper and bonnet ( support from puffy ! )
St185 group A Waterspray kit ( also from puffy )
St185 group A rear diff
*also in possession now - set of original unnumbered St185 Carlos sainz gold badges + inside bubble style Sticker *hehe -
anyway - theres another carlos sainz white one down this way - owned by a farmer + looks ratty - poor thing - I want to buy it but i cant track down the owner.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 06 November 2004 01:10
|
|
Far out Stu, You should have bought a group A in the first place 
Does anyone know how fast Justins machine in? 0-100k? roughly 1/4 time?
How fast is your machine Stu with all those mods?
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 06 November 2004 06:30
|
|
|
I noticed mine the other day when I saw heat haze rising from it... I'd like to get some sort of matting under there, but I'm not sure if it's the same type of matting that's commonly used as sound-proofing though.
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 06 November 2004 11:17
|
|
heh - at the time i couldnt afford a group A - they were 9K more than the one i got 
Justens uz185 - no idea - but its got ALOT of power to the rear trwads - even at low boost
As for mine - Its fast enough - i still havent raised the boost any further, but should have it running 17-18PSI by the end of the year with an updated dyno/quarter mile figure
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 06 November 2004 13:10
|
|
What else would you expect with twin turbo's? 
|
|
|
Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 07 November 2004 12:50
|
|
I have ST185 No. 53 here.
Black
211,000km
Very good condition (wheels are stuffed but being replaced), has had some minor accident repairs done, interior has a few small blemishes here and there.
I'm the 3rd owner.
Rego GPA-053 (i'm putting my personalised plates on it soon tho)
Will fill in the rest of the details later, cbf now!
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Wed, 10 November 2004 02:26
|
|
I'm now the proud owner of the new domain www.grparallye.com
I don't know how long it will take me to learn everything I need to learn to get it up and running but I'm commited now. I'm looking forward to the challenge and getting the list as complete as I can. I've got a gig of space to play with so expect lots of pics of Grp A's!!!
I'll let you know when it is published...
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Wed, 10 November 2004 13:00
|
|
Let me know if you need a hand dude, i am more than happy to help
|
|
|
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 02:40
|
|
Sorry to drag up an old thread but I used to work for Toyota WA when the ST185R GT4 Group A was first released in October 1991, and I have managed to find some old paperwork on this model.
I have a list of the 15 first delivered in WA and the other 135 delivered in the rest of Australia.
For the 15 in WA I have this info:
No. Colour Chassis (all JT764STJ5) Engine
85 040 00016142 3S9155914
90 040 00016174 3S9156127
88 202 00016168 3S9155911
87 3E5 00016159 3S9153621
89 3E5 00016170 3S9156128
92 3E5 00016202 3S9155815
50 182 00015841 3S9155235
128 040 00016827 3S9157115
131 040 00016876 3S9157236
129 202 00016852 3S9157484
84 3E5 00016127 3S9155912
134 3E5 00016945 3S9157483
136 3E5 00016998 3S9158244
137 3E5 00017018 3S9158232
138 3E5 00017045 3S9158261
I have the original rego details and selling dealer but I prefer not to publish this info.
As for the other 135 cars I have only the chassis number and the port they were sent too, on thermal fax paper that is badly faded. I might try and post this info at a later date.
Cheers,
Mitch.
|
|
|
Location:
Launceston, Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 02:56
|
|
|
The bloke at my local servo owns the one mentioned above from tassie. I know that it was in Targa so it is most likely the one. I'll let him know about this registry list thing next time i'm there.
|
|
|
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 03:28
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure there is a group A in the street next to mine. Its white...thats about all I can tell you
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 05:01
|
|
wow thats great man, pretty awesome info!
|
|
|
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 06:58
|
|
|
So, I have the right chassis number for your car then ?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 21:56
|
|
You have my number correct. That is the type of information I would love to get my little toyota loving hands on for my site. I wouldn't publish most of the information of course but it would be good to be able to cross reference to make sure everything adds up.
Darwin huh. Interesting...
www.grparallye.com is still in the design stage. Sorry it's taking so long but I work 6 nights a week and have little experience in making web sites. I think I'll be taking people up on their offers of assistance.
|
|
|
Location:
Maroubra
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 22:26
|
|
G'day guys,
Number eg. #20
Original Color - White
Current Color - White
Date Manufactured - 8/91
Original owner (off plate) - Glenn Gooch
Current owner - John Perritt
Owner history (maybe ie. how many) I am #4 (i think)
Location - Sydney
Email Address/web site - twisted_perritt@hotmail.com
Forums frequented (maybe) - toymods
Approx k's done - 115,000
Current condition (showroom down to wrecked ) good
Mods (there's a big one) - not much... yet
Stereo - Standard
Rego no. - ALL-73J
For sale? - No Way
Value - paid $15,700 about 6 months ago
And a mate on mine owns #9
nice domain name too!
|
|
|
Location:
newcastle
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 22:56
|
|
hey champ,
I was going to buy #9 but at the time ( this was in 97 ) the car had 160k on it and a shitload of probs
whats it like now??
|
|
|
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 16 November 2004 23:28
|
|
Number 20 lists as chassis number 00015622 and was first delivered in Sydney while No. 9 is 00015515 and is also a Sydney car.
Cheers,
Mitch.
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 20 November 2004 00:42
|
|
| ra23celica wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 14:01 |
Trolling through the posts above I came up with this:
Toobs No. 135 Chassis 00016983 Adelaide
Can owners please check that I have their car right or wrong so that I can prove it if I have the correct list or not ? Thanks.
If anyone wants to check a specific St185R Grp A chassis number, let me know.
|
Right on the money!
Don't know about the original delivery port but she lives in sydney now.
Hey could you post up the original engine number, colour etc?
If you could fax or scan a copy of this document I would f'cking love a copy.
I have been trying to collect this sort of stuff
I have original faxes of the sticker placement and locally delivered modifications, an original copy of the group a brochure and a bunch of other little bits and pieces... this list would be an awesome addition to the collection!
|
|
|
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 22 November 2004 01:50
|
|
Toobs,
I can't help you mate, sorry. Like I said in my original post, the only info I have on the 150 is the list of chassis numbers, plague numbers and first port of delivery/stock number. All this stuff also had a single line ruled through it making it had to read some numbers. I was not supposed to even get a hold of this list, but I had one friend in Toyota who got hold of this document when perhaps he should not have.......
I will send the stuff to Gary and he can host it on his web-site for the whole world to see and enjoy.
Cheers,
Mitch.
|
|
|
Location:
Maroubra
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 22 November 2004 10:02
|
|
Gremlin, we got a GT-Four cruise happening earlier next year. 
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 22 November 2004 23:24
|
|
| Gremlin wrote on Mon, 22 November 2004 18:35 |
Mate,
to be honest #9 isn't much better now!!!
it's a hybrid between aus spec grp A and jap spec gt4... it'll be a very nice car when the engine rebiuld is completed. After blowing the engine at least twice my mate has finally decided to rebuild with strengthened internals and the like.
At some stage i think we (sydeny boys) should all try and get together... maybe WSID or just a street cruise... potential
cheers
|
We should all boycot the real Toyota nationals that moved to Tamworth and go to Dubbo anyway!!!
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 23 November 2004 01:46
|
|
hehehe!
well i wont be going to the toyonats '05 with my Gt4 .. Sorry to say .. cant get the time off to cover the driving distance
planning more on dyno day or meeting up with the CCG for an event they might have next year
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
SA; Home of Car Scene BS
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Wed, 24 November 2004 16:40
|
|
Ok guys, my friend Tim has a Grp A 205
Not sure details of it yet but i will post what i know.. and will get the rest for you later.
Number eg. - ??
Original Color - Black
Current Color - Black
Date Manufactured - 1994
Original owner (off plate) - ??
Current owner - Tim Palljonker
Owner history (maybe ie. how many) ??
Location - Adelaide
Email Address/web site -
Forums frequented (maybe) -
Approx k's done - ??
Current condition (showroom down to wrecked Crying or Very Sad) - fair showroom i reckon!!
Mods (there's a big one) - i know its getting a new turbo atm ??
Stereo - ??
Rego no. - WZO 924 - soon to be changed
For sale? - NEVER
Value - Priceless..
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 28 November 2004 21:49
|
|
I don't have a Group A, but i see one every day on the way to work, for all you Queenslanders it is along Old Cleveland Road about 1 km before it intersects with Cavendish (if your going into the city) Group A stickers/bonnet, rego is GTFWOR.
Couldn't really be bothered checking the details of it
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 19 December 2004 04:35
|
|
Details of my ST185 Carlos Sainz...
Number: 29
Original Color: red
Current Color: red
Date Manufactured: August 1991
Original owner (off plate): John Vakirtzis
Current owner: Anthony Roy
Owner history: I'm the 2nd owner (bought it November 2002)
Location: Sydney
Email Address/web site: aroy1@optusnet.com.au
Forums frequented: Toymods
Approx k's done: 159,000km
Current condition: Excellent (just a couple of minor body dings while it was parked one night - stoopid hit & run drivers)
Mods: not much (yet) - nothing mechanical. Only boost gauge, turbo timer, Hella driving lights, cold air intake to stock airbox.
Stereo: original
Rego no: GTF01R (orginally AAR 37W)
For sale: nope
Value: n/a - not selling!
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 19 December 2004 23:42
|
|
Hey Guys,
Just a quick post to let those that don't know - www.grparallye.com is online. Not much there yet but I'm working on it. I'm working on the pictures section next so anyone with some pics of their cars they would like to show can send them to me through the site. I have some pics of a really great alpine install recently done in a ST185 boot, can't say whose or even what country (security purposes understandably).
Anyone that wants to fill out the form on grparallye.com for their car is welcome otherwise i'll just use the info from this thread. Anyone wanting to continue posting their details to this thread is also welcome.
I'm going for a drive along old cleveland rd this morning to see if i can find that grp A.
Happy holidays to all!!
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 20 December 2004 01:27
|
|
|
Ill have a heap of pics for you of my " hybrid " soon - will take more once the frontmount and the Group A bonnet is on and repaired!
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 20 December 2004 02:44
|
|
Hey Dude, i know the location of that Group A.
It is just near that ampol petrol station, above that little hill, you can see the it. it is on the opposite side to the ampol....it looks quite nice, in white,
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 20 December 2004 21:11
|
|
|
That's the one Sikx5, does look nice in white. Everytime we go past i'm drooling over it and my mate (falcon driver) is like, 'it's just a celica'
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 20 December 2004 22:22
|
|
I didn't get to go and check out the gorgeous white beast I had to go in the complete opposite direction. If i'm not too tired I'll head out that way in about 2 hours. IF.
That #32 might be bogus. The VIN doesn't even come close to matching any of the 150, and the 1990 is wrong of course. Can't say for sure on the engine number but it does seem way too early compared to mine.
What is it with the rest of the world? Don't they get celicas? To me they are the best looking car on the road. If someone put my GT4 next to a brand new manaro and said you can swap if you like i might be tempted but only because I could sell the manaro and buy 2 or even 3 GT4's!!!!! I'm converting those around me slowly. Had a die hard ford escort driver have a sit in mine this morning and he said "Hey, this is nice" Sow the seeds of Toyota my brother's!
|
|
|
Location:
Forrestfield, WA
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 20 December 2004 23:05
|
|
Guy at place next to my work just wrote off a red group a st205... if anyone seen it around Perth it had plates "Gt4Groupa"... was such a nice car, pretty stock i believe apart from Hybrid turbo and a bov.. oh well
- Russ
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 21 December 2004 03:59
|
|
| poombah wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 09:05 |
Guy at place next to my work just wrote off a red group a st205... if anyone seen it around Perth it had plates "Gt4Groupa"... was such a nice car, pretty stock i believe apart from Hybrid turbo and a bov.. oh well
- Russ
|
oh really!!! do you have any pics? is it for sale?
|
|
|
Location:
Forrestfield, WA
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 21 December 2004 05:14
|
|
|
he was going to buy it back from insurance... but they wanted 16k for it... so he's getting a bombed r32 gtr instead with the 30k or so insurance coin im guessing hes getting.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Forrestfield, WA
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 21 December 2004 23:06
|
|
|
we dont have VINs on our rego stickers over here, how on earth we get away we having one rego for multiple cars
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Tue, 21 December 2004 23:10
|
|
|
Well that's not very handy. I thought rego stickers were all pretty much the same, VIN to help out the cops to track down cars with no plates and to make sure the plates aren't phonies.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Thu, 23 December 2004 04:12
|
|
That white one is #56, got the VIN off the Vic Rego. It's not in the best condition and it doesn't have the heat shielding under the center vent like most apparently. Poor thing.  Someone rock up there with a big wad of cash and rescue it!! And then spend even more money restoring it.
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Thu, 23 December 2004 09:07
|
|
the white one i know near hear is in the same category hawk - it needs LOVE!
but i cant track the guy down - all i know is hes a farmer
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 26 December 2004 08:12
|
|
| poombah wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 07:05 |
Guy at place next to my work just wrote off a red group a st205... if anyone seen it around Perth it had plates "Gt4Groupa"... was such a nice car, pretty stock i believe apart from Hybrid turbo and a bov.. oh well
- Russ
|
Damn... i used to see that one around heaps.. If i had some cash id buy his plates
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Fri, 07 January 2005 13:00
|
|
ST185 Group A #36 is for sale on Carsales right now.
89,000kms on the clock!
$19k in Dolans Bay NSW
Link Here
Someone buy this car!
I will even come and personally inspect it with you so long as this car goes to a good home!
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Fri, 07 January 2005 13:06
|
|
|
I think we should start a "Save the Group A Foundation!"
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sat, 08 January 2005 08:40
|
|
Looks like he got some rego for it and jacked up the price a bit.
It was 19k when I looked at it the other day!
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 09 January 2005 06:32
|
|
Hey sikx5 i tried to buy that GT4 from Hobart as well but you outbid me.... wish I had have looked on these forums back then coz I already had got a rear cut for that car ( i was preety confident of winning the auction at the time oh well) but I had no room for the rear cut so I gave it away. I can check and see if the guy has used it yet if interested??
Also I have seen a ST185 that has a badge on the rear "GT-Four RC" anyone know what that is?? is it a JDM group A??
Can't be too many good genuine Group A's out there, a lot were made into race cars and in the last six months I've seen 3 absolute wrecks at Auctions.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 09 January 2005 07:05
|
|
hahahaha thats interesting. I wish you outbid me a little more
I would be intersted in that rear cut, but the problem is transporting that up to queendland. It costed $1600 to bring up the car from hobart, so i can imagine it would be alot for a half cut? unless you can source out a place mate for transport?, i would be very interested in that half cut. Thanks alot.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Sun, 09 January 2005 07:29
|
|
| MIKGTR wrote on Sun, 09 January 2005 16:32 |
Also I have seen a ST185 that has a badge on the rear "GT-Four RC" anyone know what that is?? is it a JDM group A??
|
Yeah they are also Group A's, they are apart of the 5,000 made. They are jap imports, Still a group A with a limited edition number and all, signed by carlos sainz, but not apart of the 150 that came to aus.
|
|
|
Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 10 January 2005 01:38
|
|
I don't know if this has been mentioned already but a white ST-185 Group A came fifth outright in the East Coast Targa. Not a bad effort against all of the GT3 Prosches, Ferrari's and Evo's etc.
There was a show on Channel 10 about it on Sunday but they only ever showed the Celica in passing never any decent info or anything.
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 10 January 2005 06:19
|
|
Hey how much have all you guys got your Group A insured for?
Its insurance time again this year and I've got the sh!ts with the insured value they want to put on it!
Apparently my insurer decided to "adjust" my agreed value this renewal and dropped the value from 16k to 10.5k I had to argue with the guy that the car was worth more than even the 16k value we agreed to disagree on last year.
Now the agreed value on my new (unpaid) policy is 15.5k
I phoned Shannon's and once I had convinced them that my car was unique and that even though I was under 25 my driving record is pristine their policy was twice the price!
I phoned Vigil and they agreed to 16.5k agreed value and are only about $100 more expensive on the premium... I just don't like the ambiguity of their policy wordings.
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Group A list
|
Mon, 10 January 2005 07:28
|
|
HA ! who'd race a Gt4 - they are just heavy and slow and understeer terribly!
15 YO technology stillc apable of dishing it out to evo's and WRX's - Always good to see
10 grand oldtech AWD owning 70K modern AWD in targa = Priceless!
Go the GT4 - may your " sleeper status " remain a talking point
|
|
|
Re: Group A list
