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L4AGZE
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Location:
Manchester, UK
Registered:
October 2004
Chargecooling 4AGZE Thu, 04 November 2004 14:50 Go to next message
Has anyone run a chargecooler with a 4AGZE engine?

I am trying to decide which route to take i.e. AIR/AIR
Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) or an AIR/WATER
Chargecooler with a 4AGZE engine in an AE92 corolla. The
engine is also running a NEVO pulley so will be boosting
higher than stock.

The AIR/WATER Chargecooler seems to be more efficient,
that is it can cool the charge quicker than the
AIR/AIR FMIC because water can remove heat quicker
than air.
Also no need for long intercooler piping to the front
of the car, the AIR/AIR FMIC is a large unit and the
AIR/WATER is a much smaller unit.
All things considered the AIR/WATER Chargecooler seems
to be the way to go, or am I missing something???
Any comments, suggestions and advice would be greatly
appreciated on this topic.


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ae95
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Perth, WA
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May 2003
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Thu, 04 November 2004 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
id go a air to air
much easier to set up and proven to work.
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Skip
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Perth
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October 2003
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Thu, 04 November 2004 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Having done both custom air/air and water/air setups id say use water/air only as a last resort i.e. if you get air/air pipe run difficulties. Also water/air coolers are generally better for 4WDing
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4agte
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September 2004
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
water to air is more efficient at removing heat from the compressed air than a similar air/air setup. However water/air is heavier and requires a water pump setup and heatb exchanger. There are also benefits in that you can reduce the distance of the inlet piping therefore reducing turbo lag. Also water/air setups will allow better cooling for stop start driving as they do not rely on cooling air as much as air/air cores.
I will be using a water/air i/c setup on my supercharged aw11.

[Updated on: Fri, 05 November 2004 01:15]

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Henn
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June 2002
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I concur with Skip. Go air to air unless there are real packaging difficulties. It is simple and requires less plumbing and bits and pieces.

Also in a water to air setup the water in the core cools the air, but what then cools the water?? A radiator. But what cools the radiator?? Air flowing past. Cut out the middle man.

Hen
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Spanktown
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June 2002
 
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
only go water to air if you have to like my aw11 mr2.
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4agte
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September 2004
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Henn wrote on Fri, 05 November 2004 14:42

I concur with Skip. Go air to air unless there are real packaging difficulties. It is simple and requires less plumbing and bits and pieces.

Also in a water to air setup the water in the core cools the air, but what then cools the water?? A radiator. But what cools the radiator?? Air flowing past. Cut out the middle man.

Hen


A water to air core can absorbe alot more heat at slower (read: city driving) speeds. Water to air has its advantages as is testiment to many high powered drag cars in japan using it i.e. the hks V8 drag supra. Dont write it off.
Having said that its more cost effective to set up a air/air intercooler you can get a r33gtr o.e. front mount i/c thats capable of flowing 300rwk for 700-1000 buks bargain!!
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ae95
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Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the v8 drag supra has a great big fmic
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Aust162
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wta intercooler's are heavy, harder to setup and much more expensive..(hard to find too if ur after a 2nd hand one)
for a street car, i would use a ata unit becuase u will be gettin good air flow on it while driving. Smile
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celicamad
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newcastle
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June 2002
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agreed air /air is easier . however water/air has less pressure drop across the core .

if you can easily fit a decent size say 600 by 300 mm Air/Air core then you will get equally as good as a good water/air .

Not to forget that a big air/air means a MUCH bigger volume to fill before boost gets to the intake.....more lag

BUT even using the best air/ air core your looking at 2 psi pressure drop arcoss the core and bends .

even a small water to air is VERY effiecient . provided it has
1. good insulation from engine heat
2. a decent size radiator (about the size of an a/c condenser)
3 a LARGE volume of water. adding a 2 litre tank can increase the efficiency of a water/air sytem by 20-30%

The reason water/air is so popular in drag racing is it reduces lag and pressure drop FREEZING COLD water can be added improving effecincy by a huge margin

I used a modified Subaru liberty water/air intercooler on my 1ggze with NO measurable pressure drop .altough they are rated at 0.4 psi .

it took 4 less bends than an air/air (a 90 degree bend is good for 0.25 psi pressure drop)

And where increasing boost in a supercharged engine is more difficult and the blower can only be driven to around 14 psi max(i think correct me if im wrong). a water/air could easily be good for 2psi more at the boost gauge . with most likely the same or better cooling ability .Water to air could prove better .
Not like just winding up the boost in a turbo engine

Plus build in a nice cold water or ice tank and for drag days and dyno comps its possible to reduce intake temps by 15 degrees celcius .

My liberty setup was able to run 5 degrees below ambient using literally freezing cold water -1 degree (with a touch of anti freeze) and some solid blocks of ice in the 3 litre water tank

Made 15 rwhp on a 160 rwp engine ....worth a go i reckon

[Updated on: Fri, 05 November 2004 10:56]

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mrshin
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Montrose, VIC
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May 2002
 
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Fri, 05 November 2004 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Heck, why do you think I'm about to sell my old air cooler and build a water one... apart from the fact that it helps stuff fit in a lot better!
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4agte
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Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
Re: Chargecooling 4AGZE Sat, 06 November 2004 02:21 Go to previous message
ae95 wrote on Fri, 05 November 2004 20:38

the v8 drag supra has a great big fmic


not according to hpi
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