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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 08:18
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Hey all
Instead of doing study for my uni exams i sit arround daydreaming about my car, namely what sort of motor i want to put into my celica.
At the moment i have an 18rg with balanced, linished bottom end 9.7-1 pistons 253 head and 230 cams with 40mm webers, electronic ignition and extractors exhaust etc. at a guess i think that it would put out at 150+ hp at the fly.
now if i was to continue with this motor i would like to put on aftermarket fuel injection of some discription, independant throttles, and a mild cam, and mild headwork.
do you think this would give me 170hp roughtly 100kw at the wheels or am i dreaming?
the next step would obviously be 2.2L rebore, forged pistons and more headwork.
the other motor i have always wanted to play with is a 1gge (yes no turbos) they put out arround 145hp is this correct? I have been told that these are essentially a 6 cylinder 4age and that rods and pistons, valves can be interchanged does this sound right or have i been mislead?
is it possable for a 1g engine with similar mods as the 18rg to put out 180-200 hp?
any other All motor engines i should consider?
Daniel
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 10:20
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If you have your heart set on a small naturally-aspirated engine with lots of power, your best bet would be a BEAMS 3S-GE. 210hp out of the box with a 6-speed close-ratio gearbox. They're expensive but not as expensive as trying to squeeze that much power out of an 18R-G! Food for thought.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 10:26
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Norbie makes a very good point. It's hard and you probably won't do it/want to, but rather than do gradual mods to the 18RG, just save that money and buy the Beams 3S...... Then while you are thrashing that, save for cams and headwork etc...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 10:30
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and forget the 1g ge idea
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 14:12
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I still sometimes wonder at night what the heck 'all motor' is.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 14:46
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All Motor is a drag racing class, it means you can do ANYTHING to the motor / body of the car, aslong as you don't add any forced induction or nitrous. I believe it originated in the US, and it's mostly crazy 4 cylinder cars (Hondas and the like).
I was reading some magazine, perhaps Zoom, and there was a ... 10? second All Motor Civic (think it was 10 second..) the entire car was hollowed out, there was no floor (aside from the drivers section) and a heap of other crazy stuff done to it.
As for the topic, I've got no idea 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Tue, 09 November 2004 21:48
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all mods being equal the 1G-GE will not perform as well as the BEAMS 3S-GE
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 00:38
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 05:48 |
all mods being equal the 1G-GE will not perform as well as the BEAMS 3S-GE
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This is true, but unless you have some uber money, it's not going to cost as much either
It all depends on what you want. If you want 170hp, you should get there, the last 1GGE's have 160hp out of the box. If you want a little more, you should be able to get it.
If you want a lot more, you may as well just spend the extra money for a BEAMS 3SGE. Although more expensive, it'd be a lot cheaper than a 210hp 1GGE.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 02:04
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| peeack wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 01:46 |
All Motor is a drag racing class, it means you can do ANYTHING to the motor / body of the car, aslong as you don't add any forced induction or nitrous. I believe it originated in the US, and it's mostly crazy 4 cylinder cars (Hondas and the like).
I was reading some magazine, perhaps Zoom, and there was a ... 10? second All Motor Civic (think it was 10 second..) the entire car was hollowed out, there was no floor (aside from the drivers section) and a heap of other crazy stuff done to it.
As for the topic, I've got no idea
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yah, was 10 second.. and a complete waste of money really...
why not just go a forced induction car, it will be cheaper than all the mods you will have ot carry out for shit loads mroe power
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 03:12
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| Jag7799 wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 10:04 |
why not just go a forced induction car, it will be cheaper than all the mods you will have ot carry out for shit loads mroe power
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It's a just cos thing dude For some people they want ze uber response and the achievement of it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 03:27
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| munki wrote on Tue, 09 November 2004 18:48 |
the other motor i have always wanted to play with is a 1gge (yes no turbos) they put out arround 145hp is this correct? I have been told that these are essentially a 6 cylinder 4age and that rods and pistons, valves can be interchanged does this sound right or have i been mislead?
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Can anyone see any truth in this,
becuase i have considered putting in some higher compression pistons but leaving boost down a tad for more pickup while the motor is off boost which it lacks the most power 
Bear in mind i am only considering this as it is a fairly hair brained and dangerous scheme 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 04:00
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yeah, Beams 3SGE would be the best choice, but limited funds, what about the 1GFE from the IS200? They put out 114kw stock, with VVTi, and when worked, with larger headers, ecu and maybe some cams, can put out some respectible numbers, and considering its a 6, torque numbers are good too. They already run hi compression (Compression test came out with 11:1!) But with all this, it will probably only just get you to 150kw, where a stock 3SGE has 150kw.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 04:09
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not many altezza owners go and chop up their cars 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 05:25
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| KOFFEE-BLACK wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 14:00 |
They put out 114kw stock, with VVTi, and when worked, with larger headers, ecu and maybe some cams, can put out some respectible numbers
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Yes, but that would cost significantly more than a BEAMS 3S-GE.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 05:28
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If you are going NA then you can't beat capacity. I say go the 1UZ. you'll most likely have to convert to rack and pinion to fit the engine but I wouldn't want to be controlling the thing through a dodgy old steering box.
Beams 3S is the logical answer though as long as you aren't going to want more than 220HP any time in the future.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 05:36
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 16:25 |
| KOFFEE-BLACK wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 14:00 |
They put out 114kw stock, with VVTi, and when worked, with larger headers, ecu and maybe some cams, can put out some respectible numbers
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Yes, but that would cost significantly more than a BEAMS 3S-GE.
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Yeah, thats what I said at the bottom of the post, but if you think about it, a 1GFE can be had under a grand, the box to suite for under $1500, header probably a grand, ecu 1500 ahh fark it, just go the 3SGE BEAMS haha.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 05:36
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A worskhop here in Canberra has a genuine Altezza (Beams 3SGE etc) which they race with a Motec doing the management and an internally stock engine the thing apparently goes pretty well, no idea on power but it is a very cool car.
The Beams 3sge would be my choice of naturally aspirated weapon in a small car. Very cool engine.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 09:59
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thanks for the imput, and smashing my daydreams!!! (just kidding)
as nice as the beams 3sge would be, i wouldnt be suprised if i didnt see much change from $10 000 if i was to do it properly.
I know that near and beyond 170hp from an 18rg is going to cost alot of money and isnt worth it unless I was after the period look or something.
that is why i thought a 1gge would be a good option, fuel injection, better head design all alloy motor? and i am lead to believe it is based on the 4age.
I just checked the articles and as justcallmefrank said there is a 160 hp map version which came out in 88+ that sounds perfect for a itb setup perhaps from a 4age 20v would be a perfect match to get me somewhere into 180hp area, which i would be quite happy with.
yeah i have also thought of the 1gfe (there is one for sale near me for 800 I just saw) but the variable timing worrys me, but perhaps the bottom end would be the best of the series ( then again the pistons are probably different due to the different angle of the head) and there is always the 6 speed that i could add later on if i wished. Also if they only put out 114kw standard they are beaten by the less complex 120 ish kw map sensored 1g, which i would prefer.
1uz that would be horn but it would be a challenge to put into the celica (anyone want to do it for beer?).
the only issue i can see is that no one really knows much about the plain vanilla 1gge, id be happy do do it in the future any susgestions?
anyway this is all a pipe dream as i have to get the rest of the bodywork done and the suspension,brakes and drivetrain up to scratch first.
thanks for all the replies people keep them comming
Daniel
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Wed, 10 November 2004 22:59
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| munki wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 19:59 |
that is why i thought a 1gge would be a good option, fuel injection, better head design all alloy motor?
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Nup, cast iron block.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: All motor ra23
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Thu, 11 November 2004 14:23
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Go teh 2.2litre 3SGE.
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