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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 04:51
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Hi guys,
I would like some pics of peoples engine bays that show how they routed their I/C pipes, as I want to upgrade, but the ARC I/C that I bought is gonna be too hard to fit  (looked great in a MZ20 Soarer with 7M-GTE. Bloody caster rod brackets get in the way  )
Can anyone help me please ?
I can follow my original setup, but it is a bit average, and I want to use 2.5" piping
I found the Rabid Chimp pic install for his kit, (http://www.celicasupra.com/uet/), and it looked OK, but won't clear the LJM strut bar , so that is no good, and at USD $1125 
Here is my current setup;
Upper section
Lower Section
And the ARC Core that I want to use (It's core 480mm x 380mm x 75 thick)
I can make it fit like Aaron's setup, but it will take a bit of welding and mucking around, but looking at Aaron's setup, it may still be possible.
Any other pics would be greatly appreciated though
Cheers in advance 
[Updated on: Tue, 16 November 2004 04:21]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 04:54
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First thing I would do is get a custom plenum (or adapt a 1JZ plenum) so you have a front-facing throttle body. It will make your piping heaps neater and shorter, plus it doesn't have to be routed over the hot exhaust!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 04:55
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in the link that is how my mate has done his with a jz70 front mount when you come down on the weekend ill take you a round there and show you.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 04:59
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I'd love to get the FF manifold, but it will create untold hassles with engineering, although I may ring and check with the engineer, as there is one for sale in Melb !!!
RA65 Sleeker - OK, that would be great. Let me know the best time to pickup/driop off the other gear
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 05:03
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not keen on WTA? you seem to have a fair amount of space next to the AFM?
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 05:09
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Got any pics of the cooler in the z20 Soarer? i'm about to get piping done for mine as well and am trying to work out how to get around the sidewards facing throttle body and previous setup where both pipes travelled out of the stock unit in the same direction
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 05:09
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Is it possible to copy the 1G setup? That way, the IC could be adapted fairly easily, and you could use those triangular shaped holes in the corners of the bay which I can see are already cleared.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 05:18
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 12:51 |
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Looks fairly similar to mine
But I'm using a Cosmo IC
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 15 November 2004 12:20
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 00:22
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Danners - Yes I do, and I can give you pics and measurements of the pipes if you like. The setup came from a MZ20 Soarer.
JCMF & Glenn - 2.5" piping does not fit through those triangular holes. And as I am replacing the crossover pipeand a lot of the piping supplied is 2.5" as is the outlets of the I/C, 2.5" is the way I'm going.
CruZida - Do you have any more pics please ?
From what I have seen, I'll be belnding my previous setup (new piping) and copying Rabid Chimps version.
Cheers
Michael B
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 00:27
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 08:22 |
CruZida - Do you have any more pics please ?
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Can do.
I went to take some last night, but my dad has the camera, so that wasn't available.
Will borrow one and take some shots though.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 00:44
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 08:22 |
JCMF & Glenn - 2.5" piping does not fit through those triangular holes. And as I am replacing the crossover pipeand a lot of the piping supplied is 2.5" as is the outlets of the I/C, 2.5" is the way I'm going.
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Tis tight, but since when does it not fit?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 03:35
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 11:44 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 08:22 |
JCMF & Glenn - 2.5" piping does not fit through those triangular holes. And as I am replacing the crossover pipeand a lot of the piping supplied is 2.5" as is the outlets of the I/C, 2.5" is the way I'm going.
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Tis tight, but since when does it not fit?
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It is more than tight. It just don't fit. Unless your GA61 is differnt to the MA61, but the pipe doesn't fit (I tried !!!!)
Pics would be great CruZida
Any others ? Yian etc ?
Michael B
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 03:39
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 11:35 |
It is more than tight. It just don't fit. Unless your GA61 is differnt to the MA61, but the pipe doesn't fit (I tried !!!!)
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I must have 2" pipe coz I know mine goes through there.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:07
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2" does fit, but 2.5" is really pushing it  Maybe you could slightly massage the area?  Might be looked down apon by engineers though.
I only used the right side one (looking at the front of the car) for my intercooler pipwork. The other side comes through the wheel well, very close to the front.
bbaacchhyy, I need to find the time to come take a look at your MA61 now that it's not up on stands... or have you put it back up?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:13
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| HyDrA wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 15:07 |
but 2.5" is really pushing it Maybe you could slightly massage the area? Might be looked down apon by engineers though.
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You can push really hard, but it still don't fit. Even massaging a bit, it is still too tight. Caster rod bracket are pretty important for vehicle stability, so I doubt if an engineer would approve.
I bought some stuff today, and will replicate somewhat what Aaron (Rabid Chimp) has done and utilise some of the pioe that I already have.
Come anytime chris, just give me a bit of notice.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:16
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Ok, failing running it through those holes, is there enough room to run it under that into the bay and up through the stone guard or would that be too low? I'm not near my car to check.
Reason being every 7M setup I've seen mimicking the factory setup has an enormous amount of IC piping, especially when using an IC with the outlets at opposing ends.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:28
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 15:16 |
Ok, failing running it through those holes, is there enough room to run it under that into the bay and up through the stone guard or would that be too low? I'm not near my car to check.
Reason being every 7M setup I've seen mimicking the factory setup has an enormous amount of IC piping, especially when using an IC with the outlets at opposing ends.
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Couldn't agree more Nathan, but with the 7M, you are stuck sometimes. I was going to look at one of the available HKS MA70 upgrade ones, but it will amots take as much piping and have a shitty lower entry similar to the current one.
If you look at the pics of the Rabid Chimp setup (link is in the first post), I'll be using the same I/C pipe/tank arrangement, but use a similar path that my current upper pipe pakes (a little shorter).
The core that I am using is 480 wide x 380 high (20mm wider and 75mm taller than RC's).
I'd love to go with a FF manifold, but I really am after only about 260 kW, although the piping is longer (and bigger volume with 2.5") it is a compromise that I'm willing to make.
I may not be able to follow the path that CruZida takes with his upper pipe, as it may interefere with the path of the lower pipe and the oil cooler thermostat.
ANy more pics would be appreciated so that I can come up with the best of both worlds
Cheers
Michael B
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:32
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I vaguely remember there being a reason for not doing this, but can someone explain to me why the 1G setup can't be copied in aftermarket piping? Much more effective even though the 1G doesn't use a forward facing throttle body.
Also, is there enough room to go underneath that triangle into main part of engine bay?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:38
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 15:32 |
I vaguely remember there being a reason for not doing this, but can someone explain to me why the 1G setup can't be copied in aftermarket piping? Much more effective even though the 1G doesn't use a forward facing throttle body.
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Don't know what it looks like to compare, but my current cooler is a 7M Soarer unit.
| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 15:32 |
Also, is there enough room to go underneath that triangle into main part of engine bay?
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If you look at the pics here, you can see how he gets there
http://www.celicasupra.com/uet/
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:43
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Here is my 1GGTE in my engine bay, sans IC piping, but you get the idea.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/justcallmefrank/261020 04/images/26102004%20014.jpg
I'll probably be going 2" piping as thats what the 1G cast ones are, but the same principle could be copied in 2.5".
As for the Rabidchimp setup, eck, thats some massively ugly, long IC piping, thats akin to a WRX with a FMIC.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:48
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I have the solution. Just install one of these, and all is good:
How neat is that IC piping!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:53
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Yeah yeah yeah norbs, got the extra $7k that I need and can you come down and do the swap for me as well.
I'll even supply the beer.
Yes Nathan, RC's tubing is a bit long (mine will be slightly shorter), but I see what you mean. Problem with a 7M though, is the lack of space between the rad and front of engine, but I'll have a ponder and a look tomorrow morning....
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 04:56
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Admittedly I do have a bit of a length advantage, but surely you could run it past the side of the engine like the 1G does? (i.e. it doesn't actually run between engine and radiator).
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 05:04
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Here is a crap pic, and remeber there is a fan and rad shoud still missing.
The other thing is the height of the engine makes it very difficult to run like the 1G. The piping as shown was how it was run on the MZ20, and it hits the fan when it is installed.
Even fitting a Falcon thermo setup doesn't really help.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 05:21
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I think it might have been the height I'm thinking of. Ah well, I'm keen to see what you can do to improve the Rabidchimp sorta design.
Stupid 7M's being so large 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 06:18
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 14:53 |
Yeah yeah yeah norbs, got the extra $7k that I need and can you come down and do the swap for me as well.
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Hmmm might pass on that. The pic does demonstrate how much easier it is with a forward facing throttle body though... it's well worth considering if you can get away with it. Note my IC -> throttle body pipe goes through the radiator support panel so the total pipe length is ultra-short!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 06:24
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| Norbie wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 17:18 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 14:53 |
Yeah yeah yeah norbs, got the extra $7k that I need and can you come down and do the swap for me as well.
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Hmmm might pass on that. The pic does demonstrate how much easier it is with a forward facing throttle body though... it's well worth considering if you can get away with it. Note my IC -> throttle body pipe goes through the radiator support panel so the total pipe length is ultra-short!
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Yeah, yeah yeah.
As an aside, the Engineering Requirement states (in SA anyway) that if the engine is modified in any way, a full dyno run is to be performed etc and this then forms the basis of what is engineered, but it can have a negative affect on the engineerability 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 06:56
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| CrUZsida wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 17:28 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 14:24 |
As an aside, the Engineering Requirement states (in SA anyway) that if the engine is modified in any way, a full dyno run is to be performed etc and this then forms the basis of what is engineered, but it can have a negative affect on the engineerability
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Well, its easy to fudge dyno figures.
Just put it in Shootout mode and put the temp sensor right infront of the fan.
Will drop the HP by at least 50hp atw
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I simplified it greatly. It complicates things SO MUCH, you don't want to go that route, and it has to be done with the Engineer supervising. And at $120/hr + GST, I can't afford that just to get simpler I/C piping.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 07:00
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 14:56 |
I simplified it greatly. It complicates things SO MUCH, you don't want to go that route, and it has to be done with the Engineer supervising. And at $120/hr + GST, I can't afford that just to get simpler I/C piping.
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Man you have wierd engineering rules there.
My engineer just looked over the whole car/conversion, said this needs to be changed, that needs to be shielded, this needs to be secured.
Once all that passes ($100 per inspection), he will do 2 110kph emergency stops, and a 35kph handbrake stop ($200), and then write a report ($150) and I'm all done.
Simple.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 07:04
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I wish it was that cheap. It will cost about $1500 here. It has to have a lane change test and a brake test of which both are done at AIR.
It may cost me a little more because of the upgraded brakes.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 07:08
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 15:04 |
I wish it was that cheap. It will cost about $1500 here. It has to have a lane change test and a brake test of which both are done at AIR.
It may cost me a little more because of the upgraded brakes.
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Can't you try another engineer?
Over here they all charge different.
I went with this guy coz he operates out of his house, and its only the next suburb over!
I could do anything to the car, and it would still be covered under the same costs.
I will verify this when I go to take it back next time (with the 300zx brake upgrade)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 07:12
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Can't you try another engineer? The other one quoted $2500. I can only choose from a list of approved engineers, and it is short. Doug Potts is pretty good and sensible.
Over here they all charge different. They sure do. The one Justen used in Canberra normally Charges $360/hr !!!
I went with this guy coz he operates out of his house, and its only the next suburb over! Doug is the same. From home and the next suburb along.
I could do anything to the car, and it would still be covered under the same costs. I may be wrong, but if he has to do extra calcs or inspections, it will cost more as it takes more time.
I will verify this when I go to take it back next time (with the 300zx brake upgrade)
How are you doing yours ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 07:17
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Over here was actually way out west.
We have about 20 to choose from in the metro area.
Thats what the DPI (transport) lists as approved.
There are others, but they just aren't registered with the DPI.
Well, it may cost more, but he said $100 per inspection, not per hour. Only time will tell.
As for my brake upgrade, I get the hubs back tomoz, and will have a thread by hopefully friday outlining what I did, and how others can go about it.
It should be costing me about $750 including new discs, new greenstuff pads, overhauled calipers, and all machining + parts 
This is front only, nfi about the rear. Will determine bias fuckup on test drives.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Tue, 16 November 2004 14:19
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Ok Mike
Here is how mine is set up. (no photos till the weekend sorry)
Its all 2" piping, (press bent (fairly well) from what I can tell), with a 929 intercooler (mounted on passenger side of bonnet catch support with inlet/outlet facing drivers side of car)
Goes from the turbo straight down, and then 90deg bend straight forward.
Passing under the radiator about 1/3 of the way from left to right.
Then 90deg up on a slight angle past the bonnet catch support and 90deg to the top of the IC.
Then out the bottom of the IC, straight along the front of the car, 90deg backwards, 90deg up, through the triangle, 90deg back, under the AFM-to-turbo pipe, 90deg up, then 90deg over the top of the turbo, into the 3000pipe.
So all up, about 8 90deg turns, plus the 180deg inside the IC.
Probably not the best system to follow
(those 90deg bends might not be 90deg, but are all more than 60deg)
If you can't visualise it, I can take photos on the weekend from under the car as I will have it up on stands.
Let me know.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Wed, 17 November 2004 03:18
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 01:19 |
If you can't visualise it, I can take photos on the weekend from under the car as I will have it up on stands.
Let me know.
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I can sorta, but piccies woul be good PLEASE
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Wed, 17 November 2004 03:21
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Can, and will, do
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 22 November 2004 10:19
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 14:21 |
Can, and will, do
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Pics ?????
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: I/C piping for MA61's with 7M-GTE engines
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Mon, 22 November 2004 13:42
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Mon, 22 November 2004 18:19 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 14:21 |
Can, and will, do
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Pics ?????
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Sorry
Digicam was only home for 1 day before it left again.
Will try to beg/borrow/steal one.
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