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Looonie
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1G-GTE Camshafts... Tue, 23 November 2004 21:58 Go to next message
Hey ppl

Well, over the weekend, I was told a rumour about a 1G-GTE that with standard turbos, and only 7psi of boost, was so responsive it would step out whenever you touched the throttle...

Now I expect this to be somewhat of a lucid exageration, if not total and utter BS, but I'm waiting on an opportunity to check this car out and see if the claims are true. Apparently the engine is fully rebuilt race spec, but they reckon the secret is the cams.

So to the questions... Has anybody done/seen/heard about putting camshafts into a 1G-GTE and the difference it makes? I'm sick to death of having to wait till 4,500rpm for decent spool, and lately I've been noticing, theres a fair whack of power available over about 5-6k rpm, but thats not much use to me when I redline at 6,800 and I'm trying to drift this thing... I need the response and the torque down low... but what this does lead to to believe is perhaps Toyota used a very conservative cam timing (being the lowest NVH engine ever, and being in a luxury cruiser) so that the engine isn't too powerful for the masses, but when you put your foot down to pass somebody, it releases the power within... just a theory, something I'd be keen to prove if camshafts can do what I hope they can...

Sorry for the ramble, just wanting to hear from other people while I start the search for a set of aftermarket camshafts from Japan Smile
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 00:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Looonie wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 05:58

being the lowest NVH engine ever

Sorry this doesn't answer your question, but where did you hear that? Very Happy It wouldn't surprise me though.
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HyDrA
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'd like to think there is more potential in the 1G-GTE Razz

If you find out anything interesting be sure to post the info here!
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The biggest limitation you'll have with the 1G is the baby factory turbos. Built to provide a decent midrange and shove around big luxobarges as you say, they are too small to really produce enough shove up top for something like drifting.

4500rpm seems fairly high for it to spool though. Confused
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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 14:05

The biggest limitation you'll have with the 1G is the baby factory turbos. Built to provide a decent midrange and shove around big luxobarges as you say, they are too small to really produce enough shove up top for something like drifting.

4500rpm seems fairly high for it to spool though. Confused


Thats exactly the point tho, the factory CT12s DON'T give any midrange or shove, it all happens right at the top of the rev range... And if this story I've been told is correct, then it would seem the factory turbos aren't as big a limitation as everyone claims they are....

Hopefully, with just the addition of some decent camshafts that bring the power back down into the "meat" of the rev range, it will completely change the way the engine performs...

As for where I heard that its the lowest NVH of any toyota engine, sorry but I can't remember... I read it somewhere *shrug*
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm with you on NVH, its creepy how damn smooth the thing is, I'm sure the 1GZFE has the title though Wink

It seems strange your car makes only power up there, my mates GZ20 is making full boost by like 3-3500rpm.
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HyDrA
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I find they come on around 3000rpm.

Sure, they have a little bit of potential, but nothing compared with a nice aftermarket single turbo Wink
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eventually with an aftermarket ECU I'm going to be chasing 180rwkw with my high-flowed CT12's, but I'd be seriously looking for why you're only getting boost that high.
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HyDrA
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm trying to decide whether I should try find some gen 3 turbos or go for a single turbo... gen3's would be nice, a direct fit, and instant boost in power.

Are the blitz CT12's common?
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HyDrA wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 09:22

I'm trying to decide whether I should try find some gen 3 turbos or go for a single turbo... gen3's would be nice, a direct fit, and instant boost in power.

If you can get em cheap, for sure, just depends what you are looking for and want to spend.

HyDrA wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 09:22

Are the blitz CT12's common?

I've only come across two pairs, mine and someone elses, can't remember who.

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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I can't honestly think of any logical reasons why my car would boost any later than anyone elses, especially as dyno figures have shown it to be making impressive power for the mods compared to other 1G's...

Unless of course the richness has something to do with it... Maybe one day I'll pull off the downpipes and go for a drive and see how quickly they spool then Very Happy

[Updated on: Wed, 24 November 2004 01:43]

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HyDrA
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmmm might have to keep an eye out for a set then.

Meanwhile i'll worry more about brakes Razz
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Perhaps someone has tinkered with your turbos, higher power, less response?
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Norbie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
1. Engine makes more power than expected
2. Boost comes on later than expected

Joining the dots, I think there's a good chance you have upgraded turbos on your 1G. Smile
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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 14:44

Perhaps someone has tinkered with your turbos, higher power, less response?


I wouldn't imagine so, I picked the car up as completely stock with 113,000kms on it... Unlikely for anyone to have customised the cut on the impeller wheels to provide later boost but more power :\
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indian
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmmm guys what does nvh stand for

yeah i wanna make some power too mine makes full boost by 3000 or so rpm until then the car feels like a dead duck , throttle response if far than snappy , more like plant the thing then wait a few seconds and then get thrown back in the seat

is there any way to increase the throttle response on these cars

pod filter, exhaust sparkplugs and leads, timing maybe

[Updated on: Wed, 24 November 2004 01:48]

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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 14:46

1. Engine makes more power than expected
2. Boost comes on later than expected

Joining the dots, I think there's a good chance you have upgraded turbos on your 1G. Smile




I wouldn't really say MORE power than expected, just good power for the mods. Nothing spectacular IMO. Just a good condition engine/turbos.

Joining the dots is supposed to result in drawing a chicken Smile

As I said, I seriously doubt somebody would go to the hassle of putting upgraded turbos on a COMPLETELY stock soarer, including having the factory heat shields refitted, and not even putting a BOV or boost control system in...
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justcallmefrank
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Looonie wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 09:47

justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 14:44

Perhaps someone has tinkered with your turbos, higher power, less response?


I wouldn't imagine so, I picked the car up as completely stock with 113,000kms on it... Unlikely for anyone to have customised the cut on the impeller wheels to provide later boost but more power :\

You never know. If it wasn't for the Blitz ID tags on my turbos, you'd be hard pressed to pick they weren't stock CT12's.

indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 09:48

hmmm guys what does nvh stand for

yeah i wanna make some power too mine makes full boost by 3000 or so rpm until then the car feels like a dead duck , throttle response if far than snappy , more like plant the thing then wait a few seconds and then get thrown back in the seat

is there any way to increase the throttle response on these cars

pod filter, exhaust sparkplugs and leads, timing maybe


NVH - Noise Vibration Harshness

Your biggest limitation to response is the auto.



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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 14:48

hmmm guys what does nvh stand for

yeah i wanna make some power too mine makes full boost by 3000 or so rpm until then the car feels like a dead duck , throttle response if far than snappy , more like plant the thing then wait a few seconds and then get thrown back in the seat

is there any way to increase the throttle response on these cars

pod filter, exhaust sparkplugs and leads, timing maybe



Noise, Vibration and Harshness. Three things manufacturers try to "breed" out of cars to make them smooth, quiet and pleasant to drive...

I know what you mean about the dead duck feeling... going out drifting last night it was pathetic and impossible to control... everytime I tried feathering, when I came off the gas a little it would just lose all power and then if i sunk my foot it would just think about it, having a little wank, and then start building power once I'd gripped again... :\

Hence the whole camshaft question that started this post... I need to find a way to bring the power down lower in the rev range for better torque and throttle response Smile
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thechuckster
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Are you sure the TVIS system is working correctly or working at all?

could be that the valves that usually block the second runner for each intake are stuck open resulting poor performance up to 4.5K rmp (when they usually open).
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HyDrA
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Have you got a plumb back BOV? I'm sure getting one of them would help you a lot since the turbo's wouldn't have to spin back up as much.
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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
On the turbo subject... just coz I felt like it Smile
*WARNING* I wouldn't recommend it unless you're on at LEAST DSL Smile

http://www.boost.org.nz/Turbos1.jpg
http://www.boost.org.nz/Turbos2.jpg
http://www.boost.org.nz/Turbos3.jpg

For a more broad overview...
http://www.boost.org.nz/Engine.jpg

And just cos I was down there, and it looks so sexy...
http://www.boost.org.nz/Soarer2.jpg

Very Happy

RE: TVIS... thats a very good point, however I wouldn't have a clue how to check that short of removing the plenum and runners to check for movement/blockage :\
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HyDrA
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loonie, is that your setup?

How much did the parts cost for that boost controller?
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indian
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
what the hell is this tvis system were talking bout will my car have it as well mines a 1988 model soarer gen 2 if it has is there anything i should look out for tat eeds attention , firstly maybe a good idea if someone told me where to find the damn thing
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 12:40

what the hell is this tvis system were talking bout will my car have it as well mines a 1988 model soarer gen 2 if it has is there anything i should look out for tat eeds attention , firstly maybe a good idea if someone told me where to find the damn thing

1 click on search link at upper right
2 type in TVIS in search field
3 change the 'Search in Forum' to the technical section
4 press the searhc button
5 read results

there's been a number of threads on TVIS recently.

TVIS lives between the intake manifold and the head

cheers,
charles
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 13:10

what the hell is this tvis system...


There are 12 inlet pipes on the 1G, 2 per cyl.
Under 4,500rpm, half of them are closed which creates higher inlet air flow velocities = more engine torque.
Over 4,500rpm, the other 6 open up letting the engine breath easier giving high end power.
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indian
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 03:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thanks man thats helped a lot , i looked in search but only got confusing answers and debates as to weter or not to turn it off or leave it on , doesnt help me when i dont even know wtf it is lolllll

so where exactly can i find it , under the throttle body where the runners are ????

cheers
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thechuckster
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 13:00


so where exactly can i find it , under the throttle body where the runners are ????


as noted previously:
Quote:

TVIS lives between the intake manifold and the head

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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HyDrA wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 15:17

Loonie, is that your setup?

How much did the parts cost for that boost controller?


That is indeed my setup, photos taken about a minute and a half before I posted Smile

From memory it cost me around $200-$250 for all the parts... thats bleed valve, needle valve, 2 brass hose nipples, 4 or 5 brass t joins, couple of metres of fuel hose, hose clamps... the expensive parts were the two valves... I was surprised how much it cost in the end, but then I suppose if you buy any "name brand" bleed valve thats usually $200 on its own then you need all the hoses and stuff to join the two wastegates anyway...

I'm gonna have to look into the TVIS setup more closely because that does sound like it could very likely be the cause of no low down torque and the turbos taking so long to spool... unfortunately its gonna get messy once I start pulling the intake off :\ Do the butterflies for the runners sit at the top of the runners or the bottom?

Hopefully I can just pull the plenum off the runners and check from there... rather than taking the runners off the head...
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thats a nice GZ20 loonie Very Happy

i dont have any problems holding a drift through a corner with mine, even tho i am seriously down on power due to the leak in the HG and the leak in the turbo seal causing serious boost loss (5psi on a 3rd Gen 1G Sad )

Try coming into the corners much hotter, hold it in second gear (auto i assume) and use more handbrake to flip out the apex Very Happy
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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MR 1GGTE wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 16:31

thats a nice GZ20 loonie Very Happy

i dont have any problems holding a drift through a corner with mine, even tho i am seriously down on power due to the leak in the HG and the leak in the turbo seal causing serious boost loss (5psi on a 3rd Gen 1G Sad )

Try coming into the corners much hotter, hold it in second gear (auto i assume) and use more handbrake to flip out the apex Very Happy



Cheers Smile And just for you, with its other wheels on... http://www.boost.org.nz/Soarer.jpg

The car is manual now, I can drift fine uphill in 2nd and even keeps it out going into third, its just that I have to be up over 5k to hold a drift... and I don't like handbrake drifting Smile Although I suppose I really should practice it one day... The problem with coming into corners is I'm paranoid about traffic, seeing as the munters in this country drive around all hours of the day and night :\
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dude is that the wolfman in your passenger seat? Laughing

manual, nice, what box you using?

Street drift is not really preffered but when we only get track access once a month the industrial areas get hit pretty hard, if you wanna be competetive then you really got to pre apex otherwise you might be labelled a powerslider, which is not cool, but then again who gives a fuck if youre having fun Very Happy

nice to see someone else has aspirations of a drift soarer, maybe im not crazy Eye Spin Laughing

Peace Out
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Looonie
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MR 1GGTE wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 16:56

dude is that the wolfman in your passenger seat? Laughing

manual, nice, what box you using?

Street drift is not really preffered but when we only get track access once a month the industrial areas get hit pretty hard, if you wanna be competetive then you really got to pre apex otherwise you might be labelled a powerslider, which is not cool, but then again who gives a fuck if youre having fun Very Happy

nice to see someone else has aspirations of a drift soarer, maybe im not crazy Eye Spin Laughing

Peace Out


Hahahaha yeah... our own personal NZ wolfman with the sideburns of LURRRRRVVVEEEEEEE (or so he claims anyways...)

I used a W58 in my conversion... damn crunchy whining POS that it is Smile

Yeah unfortunately track access here is kinda the same... you can get out pretty much every week, at $80 a pop tho... As for sliding pre apex, well I'm just a power slider Smile Actually I haven't been practicing drift for over a year now, ever since I got rid of my old JC so I'm sorta slowly getting back into it, just need a wheel alignment to get rid of this damn traction problem... and more low down torque...

Saw something that made me cream myself the other day, on a V-Opt DVD, there was a red GZ20 drifting at Sekia Hills with the D1 boys... only had one shot of it, but I replayed it over and over (much to my friends disgust)... it was driven by a Daiki Yamada and sounded very much like it was 1JZ powered... ahhhh the things you can do with money *sigh*
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Bugman
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
also check the cam timing is correct. that could cause it to be really laggy.
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thechuckster
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Re: 1G-GTE Camshafts... Wed, 24 November 2004 04:09 Go to previous message
Looonie wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 13:29

snip... unfortunately its gonna get messy once I start pulling the intake off :\ Do the butterflies for the runners sit at the top of the runners or the bottom?

Hopefully I can just pull the plenum off the runners and check from there... rather than taking the runners off the head...


with a mirror you should be able to get a look at the actuator mechanism - it's between ports for cyl #2 and #3 - it's a vacuum operated thing. search the other TVIs threads for confirmation about the behaviour/default position of the actuator and butterflys.

[Updated on: Wed, 24 November 2004 05:14] by Moderator

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