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Location:
Hills, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 09:57
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The 11 options in the discussion paper are:
1. Increasing the mandatory period of supervised driving for Learner drivers from 50 hours to 100 hours.
2. Increasing the minimum period as a Learner driver from six months to 12 months.
3. Increasing the age for P plate licenses to 18 years.
4. Further developing formal driver training.
5. Providing an increased role for secondary schools in driver training.
6. Improvements to the on-road test to progress from a Learner to a P plate driver.
7. A limit of one passenger for P1 drivers aged under 26, with exemptions.
8. Prohibiting P plate drivers from driving high-powered vehicles, with exemptions.
9. Modifying the demerit point structure for young drivers.
10. Introducing a night driving restriction, with exemptions.
11. A requirement for 15 hours of night driving for Learner drivers.
I personally disagree with a few of them. In particular, having to be 18 before getting the red Provisional license. Many teens need a car to start work after high school, and quite a few don't turn 18 before first half of year after graduation.
As for high powered vehicles... I kind of agree. Teens shouldn't drive 500hp monsters on the street. But a BPU'd WRX or a stockish twin turbo Supra... or an SS Commy?! this should be allowed in my opinion.
I mean who would want to be limited to driving a slug...
And cars like Corollas, what if u want to turbo them?? Its bullshit if you couldn't do something like this.
just my 2 cents 
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 10:11
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Hi,
You can still kill yourself (and others) in a VW Beetle if you drive it bad enough. Don't need a hi-powered car to cause harm and death.
I'm sure that whatever measures will be taken will ensure that someone pays more money and helps fill the governments coffers, rather than some veiled disgiuse about safety.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Hills, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 10:15
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Indeed. in the end, as always, safety is a political illusion.
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 10:26
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maybe they should have custom ecu's to cut off at 60, turn off if weight increased to passenger limit, rev limited to 3000rpms and not start up after midnight 
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 11:10
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I like it how they have thrown in the 'under 26' category and banned them from driving hipo cars as part of a 'P plater' crack down.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 11:59
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and, really, what 18 year old is gonna listen to a curfew imposed by the govt? most 18yos won't even pay attention to a curfew imposed by their parents. All that one will mean is more people breaking the law, not less p platers on the road - everyone needs a way to get home, and at that age it's the designated driver's duty, whatever age as long as they're sober.
"4. Further developing formal driver training." - probably the most sensible idea in there, and I'd be all for it (even if it meant higher licensing fees - it's practically free as it stands now). But, being the most sensible, most liekly to reduce teen accidents (with included driver education about risk-taking etc), and also the least revenue raising, the chances of it being implemented are precisely fuck-all.
And I love it how the catalyst for all of this was a teen who essentially stole his dad's car and took it for a joyride - no rule in the world will stop that from happening.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 13:52
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draven - couldn't agree more. This is where democracy fails... no one in govt will have the balls to do the RIGHT thing here.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 29 November 2004 15:39
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There will always be morons. Nothing can change that. Whether it be someone firing random bullets or someone doing 4x the legal limit, this kind of thing WILL happen. Nothing can prevent it.
As for all these restrictions, the P platers who crash and get into accidents are typically the ones that try and look cooler. With more restrictions, by speeding and doing whatever they do won't this make them look even cooler?
Just some thoughts...
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Location:
Newcastle, Hunter Valley
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 01 December 2004 05:49
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what if you live in newcastle and your driving home from sydney and the curfew kicked in whilst you were half way home? what do you do?
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 01 December 2004 07:34
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i reckon number 5, 6, and 11 are worth trying out, the others are just a waste of time
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 01 December 2004 10:43
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I think any system designed to increase training are the only good options as higher fines\penalties obviously havnt worked.
Curfews are stupid, what about shift workings or people who work back late(i know in my trade that sometimes its not possible to get back to my vehicle until the job is done...latest i've started driving home is 11:30m...didnt get home till nearly 1am in the morning after stopping for fuel and some food)
The only problem with driver training is that it works well in a controlled environment..but when panic mode sets in when in the real world then its usually the wrong reactions that come out. Still more training would be benifitial
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 01 December 2004 13:54
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if any of them bring in #5 wish we had a program in school that we were taught how to drive lol
#11 sounds good _BUT_ itll be hard getting in 15 hours of night driving in some peoples cases
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 02 December 2004 03:31
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| Cyber-punk wrote on Wed, 01 December 2004 18:43 |
I The only problem with driver training is that it works well in a controlled environment..but when panic mode sets in when in the real world then its usually the wrong reactions that come out. Still more training would be benifitial
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You know why 'driver training' doesn't work well in the real world? It's because you never, ever have to do an emergency parallel park or an emergency reverse-around-a-corner-without-going-more-than-2- feet-from-the-kerb maneuver.
Give drivers training in real world scenarios ("oh crap I went into this corner expecting dry road and the sprinklers are on" or "hmm that car just pulled into my lane and stopped, and I now have no room to brake"). Train them until they have learned the right reactions, so that the right response (brake, let off brake and steer, brake some more, whatever) is automatic. As it is most people have no idea whatsoever what to do if things go wrong.
Anyone who makes the argument that "driver training will make drivers overconfident and cause more accidents" needs to be beaten to death with a spoon. If I had the choice of sharing the road with either cocky overconfident drivers, or cocky overconfident drivers who have the skills to back up at least some of that confidence, I'd choose the latter. I'd much rather have general traffic going 120km/h in a 100km/h zone and not dying than travelling at 90km/h in a 100km/h zone and dying anyway because they're all shit drivers.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 02 December 2004 03:50
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1. Good idea, all for this.
2. Good idea, all for this.
3. Have this in Victoria already. Silly idea honestly. Give them beer and a licence in one foul swoop.
4. YES! YES! DO THIS ONE!
5. Well DAH. Schools are supposed to teach children stuff. There are so many wasted subjects at school.
6. Thank you, I'll take that.
7. What? Thats sooo dumb! This puts MORE P platers on the raod, and increases the chances of drink drivers! Although it will counteract the problem of drunken passengers.
8. Yeah I think this is a good idea. It's a lot easier to lose controll of a powerfull car when your inexperienced.
9. Modifying demerit points? Whynow?
10. Yes, exempting anyone from following this fucking retarded law. Where do you think P platers learn to drive at night? Where are you gonna get your cheap labour from if younge people can't get to work at night huh?! HUH?!
11. Night driving for learners is a yes.
If LESS driver training and LESS confidance on the roads HELPED... then why the crap do P platers have all the accidents? I can tell you, they aren't skilled enough, and don't have confidance in the skills they do have.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 02 December 2004 04:02
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1. Yes
2. Yes
3. I thought it already was  - Either way, 17 is fine.
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. No, this is a fucked idea, it will just increase the number of cars on the road
8. Yes. NO exemptions, there should be a power/weight ratio such that a stock 6cyl Magna/Camry/Commodore/Falcon should just scrape in, an NO forced induction, except diesel's.
9. Nah, its modified enough
10. No
11. Yes, at least.
[Updated on: Thu, 02 December 2004 04:03]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 02 December 2004 04:04
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Haha, Shraka and I just said the same thing
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 02 December 2004 04:07
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#4 will probably be some fucken stupid theory taken at school that kids will forget or not care about. They need practice in the car and not in the class rooms at school or where ever they do it.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Sun, 05 December 2004 10:01
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Is any of this shit offical yet? Just curious because i would supposibly get my pz in may but now 
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Sun, 05 December 2004 10:31
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Nothing is offical, all the RTA have done is put up a list of sugestions for improving road saftey and then asked people to comment. There may be some changes before chirstmas, but to me that sounds unlikley. None the less if you are in a possition to get your Ps in NSW and you are only 17, i would do it ASAP.
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Sun, 05 December 2004 15:26
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maybe they should ban petrol and every one must convert to electric 20kw fwd motors
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Sun, 05 December 2004 16:10
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| rthy wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 23:26 |
maybe they should ban petrol and every one must convert to electric 20kw fwd motors
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Sorry... as resident electric car nut, it's my job to correct this 'electric car = slow golfcarty thing' misconception. Google for Eliica (an electric limo with a top speed of over 370km/h), t-zero (electric 2-seater sports car with a range of 300 miles, top speed 170km/h, 0-100 in less than 4 seconds), and last but not least White Zombie, the fastest street legal electric car in the world with a quarter mile time of 12.99 seconds.
/rant. 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Sun, 05 December 2004 17:56
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| wolf wrote on Mon, 29 November 2004 20:57 |
1. Increasing the mandatory period of supervised driving for Learner drivers from 50 hours to 100 hours.
2. Increasing the minimum period as a Learner driver from six months to 12 months.
3. Increasing the age for P plate licenses to 18 years.
4. Further developing formal driver training.
5. Providing an increased role for secondary schools in driver training.
6. Improvements to the on-road test to progress from a Learner to a P plate driver.
7. A limit of one passenger for P1 drivers aged under 26, with exemptions.
8. Prohibiting P plate drivers from driving high-powered vehicles, with exemptions.
9. Modifying the demerit point structure for young drivers.
10. Introducing a night driving restriction, with exemptions.
11. A requirement for 15 hours of night driving for Learner drivers.
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1. Yes. Some parents really don't have the time to teach their children. Not everyone can afford $3,000 (100x$30) to teach their kids how to drive. Oh well, at the end of the day we're getting better drivers on the road.
2. I don't think this HAS to be done. As people will struggle to complete 100 hours in 6 months anyway. I did 120 in about 5 though so there ya go
3. Not really necessary. I don't think there's much of a difference. Also, this will mean some people will get their P's halfway through uni. There is more time to go out and get drunk and do stuff etc. after year 12 so it'd be better if they got some experience under their belt before uni.
4. This is like saying "Let's make our roads safer". HOW? If they mean making the P practical test more extensive then yes, I agree.
5. Yeah I guess so.. although the kids that want to speed and show off aren't going to listen to their teachers. I think that site that's hosted on bigpond with all those totaled cars and some kind of video that will scare them (hopefully) into behaving is in order.
6. See number 4. (what does number 4 mean then? )
7. Are you kidding? People are definitely mature by 24. That's 6 years after they're 18 and potentially 7 years of driving experience. If they are going to be under pressure driving with passengers at 24, they shouldn't be driving. Anyway, it's just not feasible. This reminds me the government makes a lot of its import rulings based on the environment. If they're going to limit the passengers this means MORE CARS ON THE ROAD and that means MORE POLLUTION!! What if you have a brother and you're both going to the same party and your family only has one car. What if the passenger is your mum or dad? What if your parents are running late and they need you to pick up your baby sibling? What if you're a father and you don't want your daughter and her friends going home via public transport. I can come up with so many 'what if's?'. This is an incredibly stupid idea. They didn't put much thought into it.
8. Fair enough. Maybe set a lowish limit (not sure what it would be) for the first year and increase it a bit after that.
9. In the UK, if you accumulate 6 demerit points in a year you go back to your L's. Maybe you should have to go back one license level. This means if you're on your red P's you'll have to back to your L's and if you're on your greens you're going to have to wait another 3 years for your full license. I'm pretty sure this would deter people from doing stupid stuff. Also being older on your greens, reverting back to a red P still gives you the ability to drive.
10. What if you work late at night? I guess this would be part of the exemptions, you could get some kind of permit like in the USA. What happens though about getting home late at night. Public transport can be dangerous and in our wonderful state you can't even be sure there will be trains. Exempt from driving at night? Forget about it!
11. Yeah go hard.
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Mon, 06 December 2004 01:19
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| fractoid wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 03:10 |
| rthy wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 23:26 |
maybe they should ban petrol and every one must convert to electric 20kw fwd motors
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Sorry... as resident electric car nut, it's my job to correct this 'electric car = slow golfcarty thing' misconception. Google for Eliica (an electric limo with a top speed of over 370km/h), t-zero (electric 2-seater sports car with a range of 300 miles, top speed 170km/h, 0-100 in less than 4 seconds), and last but not least White Zombie, the fastest street legal electric car in the world with a quarter mile time of 12.99 seconds.
/rant.
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didnt say electric cars where crap, but the power it can give out can be limited to 20kws thus making l's/p's platers cry and/or everyone else
edit: oh yeah, also saw this electric club car on tv the other day 
[Updated on: Mon, 06 December 2004 01:21]
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Tue, 14 December 2004 04:18
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| wolf wrote on Mon, 29 November 2004 20:57 |
The 11 options in the discussion paper are:
1. Increasing the mandatory period of supervised driving for Learner drivers from 50 hours to 100 hours.
2. Increasing the minimum period as a Learner driver from six months to 12 months.
3. Increasing the age for P plate licenses to 18 years.
4. Further developing formal driver training.
5. Providing an increased role for secondary schools in driver training.
6. Improvements to the on-road test to progress from a Learner to a P plate driver.
7. A limit of one passenger for P1 drivers aged under 26, with exemptions.
8. Prohibiting P plate drivers from driving high-powered vehicles, with exemptions.
9. Modifying the demerit point structure for young drivers.
10. Introducing a night driving restriction, with exemptions.
11. A requirement for 15 hours of night driving for Learner drivers.
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7 and 10
this would mean more cars on the road. more chances of accident, traffic jam and pollution like someone mentioned.
if not allowed to drive late night, how do we travel. doesnt public transport stop around midnight in most cases? Walk on dark alleys and get robed? Do u have any idea wat it feels like walking in a suburb at 11pm with no street lights and $2000 cash with ya??
although less cars at night means temptation to speed, look on the other hand. more cars around you in the day equals to FREAKING OUT!! (for new drivers).
i dont see the idea of only 1 passanger. in most city around the world, car pool is encouraged to decrease traffic congestions.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Tue, 14 December 2004 06:07
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When is all this going to take place?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Tue, 14 December 2004 06:36
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That sucks balls , but nothing offical has been done yet.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 15 December 2004 11:09
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got this off another car forum
"looks like someone has pulled their finger out at the summit in Canberra today.
rules are;
- as of today, no p plater can purchase a V8, Turbocharged or supercharged or modified car.
- exemptions are made to families that have only one car. if this car is mod'd, turbo'd..etc this car can be used by a p plater.
- if a p plater loses his licence, he is then limited to having just one passenger for the next twelve months.
- exemptions are made to p platers that already own a hi-po car.
this car has to be registered in their name. no hard luck stories will be accepted at all such as.. reg'd to daddy because of reduced insurance premiums..etc. this does NOT count.
if a p plater has a hi-po car registered under a family members name, they may have problems with law enforcers in the future so beware!
as for curfews, no rules as yet."
if this is true oh boy !
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 15 December 2004 11:14
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i reckon it's a pretty good idea, although i heard that they're restricting hi-performance cars for P1 licenses (that was on the 11:30am news), if so that'd be pretty good...although i dont really care
Im glad they're thinking straight about the passenger restrictions for people who have lost their licenses for speeding and some other offences 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 15 December 2004 12:40
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arnt the hours for a learner driver 25 hours? (the log books) cause they are in WA, as i just got my log books, and you only need 25 hours of supervised driving...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Wed, 15 December 2004 12:59
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mwwhaha they should make all P & L platers drive mini's and moped's
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 16 December 2004 03:43
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| spectre wrote on Wed, 15 December 2004 23:40 |
arnt the hours for a learner driver 25 hours? (the log books) cause they are in WA, as i just got my log books, and you only need 25 hours of supervised driving...
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in NSW it's 50hours supervised, not sue if they've increased it yet
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 16 December 2004 06:01
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Deaths have gone down... why make such violent changes now???
I rest my case
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: RTA's initiatives on (red) P platers and L'earners
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Thu, 16 December 2004 06:37
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gee september 11 was a god send for oil and car companies
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