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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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4AGTE T/B Choices
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Thu, 09 December 2004 06:17
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I've read the article in the tech section, so I'm sold on the differences a larger throttle body can make.
What are people out there with 4agte's running?
Has anyone run the standard TB then gone to a larger one?(looking for diffences).
My inlet manifold is about to be cut and shut, so I need to decide what to use, I've read up a bit about the 3sge which seems to be popular, but Im considering even larger, VN or XF etc...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Thu, 09 December 2004 06:26
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Do you care about throttle sensitivity? The bigger you go (XF, VN etc), the more of a pig your car will be with the throttle just cracked. Idle becomes quite sensitive to adjust, and throttle pump settings (if using throttle position as the trigger in the ECU) may have trouble recognising such a small opening, despite the significant increase in flow at that light throttle.
The factory throttle body doesn't seem to have a drama flowing enough for 200rwkw on a few applications that I know of.
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Thu, 09 December 2004 09:43
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i like the simplicity of useing the standard 4age throttle body, you dont have to worry about electric idle down with the wax beads.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2004
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Fri, 10 December 2004 08:09
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as far as i know Keith the 3SGE and 4AGE T/B's are the same dia, the only difference is that you might have to fiddle around with the metal tabs undertneath the TPS to fit the one your using on, the 4AGE/ZE ones seem tu use a Round plug, where the 3SGE ones are mostly square plugs..i actually think they are the same part number.. the 3sge ones have a largecold start assy hangin off the bottom, i simply removed this, cut up a peice on 3mm alluminium, and made cover plate..
then i used me 'custom' 12v cold start idle solenoide.
hope this helps,
happy boosting
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Fri, 10 December 2004 08:15
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ohh and also..with your I/C piping, obviously your not going to go 3" piping, 2.5 will be plenty enough for 200kw, so your 3sge/4age 57-58mm TB is about 2.25" dia, so it's pretty even..
IF you wanted you can use a TB of an EFI 85ish pintara.. i saw one at the wreckers and nearly had a heart attack..they look perfect!!!at about 60ish mm that sounds good TPS is an issue though, the toyota one will simply slide on and plug in..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sat, 11 December 2004 02:11
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Cheers for that Matt. At this stage we've decided to stick with the 4age TB. But what you say about this pintara setup intrigues me. I will go and check one out. The toyota tps will attach on pretty easily hey? I dont have a spare one with me to take down and test, both are at the workshop.
I want to go for a spin in your levin coupe sometime soon!
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sat, 11 December 2004 04:42
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| TE72_Turbo wrote on Thu, 09 December 2004 17:26 |
Do you care about throttle sensitivity? The bigger you go (XF, VN etc), the more of a pig your car will be with the throttle just cracked. Idle becomes quite sensitive to adjust, and throttle pump settings (if using throttle position as the trigger in the ECU) may have trouble recognising such a small opening, despite the significant increase in flow at that light throttle.
The factory throttle body doesn't seem to have a drama flowing enough for 200rwkw on a few applications that I know of.
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I know of a 4agte pumping out 277rwkw still using standard size t/b, was going for 300rwkw but the motor shit it self, No surprise there.
But for ease and convenience i think the standard one will be fine. As mentioned before, alot of fart arsen around to make bigger t/b work, but it can be done.
I think something off a falcon or commodore might be a little to big, maybe 3sg as mentioned above is a good solution.
Cheers
Steve
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sat, 11 December 2004 06:20
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Ive got an sr20 one on mine.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sat, 11 December 2004 07:10
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Yeah I looked at using a throttle body fro a dead 1G-GTE, imagine my surprise when the 4AGE TB measured out quite a few mm larger! So we will be sticking with the 4AGE TB.
regards Chuck.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sat, 11 December 2004 11:26
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Im currently in the middle of a 4A-GTE build and ive got a fwd bigport maifold that has a VN T/B.
The T/B is about 75mm in diameter and is only marginally smaller than the inlet plenum it. I will be running this setup on the std ecu initially, ill be posting a thread in relation to my car setup soon....
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sat, 11 December 2004 12:55
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bigger TBs seem to be a waste on a turbo car. U get the 'perception' of a power gain because, for the same throttle applied u admit more air to the motor - sensitivity, thats all.
Turboford guys dyno'd before and after and gained absolutely nothing.
They have a 5h1tload of 10sec street cars. They know what they're doing
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 00:11
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i beg to differ...my gze tb mesured around 46-47 mm..i put a GE tb on it (57-58mm) and yeh there was a sharper increase in response because of the larger dia, BUT i did notice more top end response, my 400m times show this..stock it did 13.9 @ 96 mph, after doing the tb, top speed increased to 13.78 @ 101, so i do belive that increaseing it by a small amount does help, but the 75mm idea...on a 1.6??? com-on guys thats just over 3"!!! are you running 3" IC piping? but, i can't comment, i dunno your engine build, but if you have a 75mm tb, it must be incredibly wild!! good stuff with the posts fellas little things like this often get over looked in the hunt for just that little more power..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 03:23
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Have you got any detail on the sr20 t/b? What does it use for cold start? Do you know if the 4age tps will fit on easily?
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 06:31
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Regarding the tech article - if you do the maths then you wont be needing to go much bigger than tthe standard T/B.
I will echo soem of the above respinses with a couple of cars where I am familiar with the size of the T/B - my car makes around 190rwkW on a good day and has the stock 50mm T/B. I know of a Cosworth Ford making 400+rwhp with a 55mm and an FJ20ET making 420rwhp aagain with the 55mm throttle - given that the 4AGE has one around 54mm (i can't rightfully remember) then It is fair to say that you can make a shiteload af power (300kW as noted above) through it.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 08:49
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Well im using the VN T/B because the bigport manifold I bought already had it on there...
Such a large throttle body is somthing that would probably be more suited to a worked 3s-gte or the likes!
This is only a temporary intake anyways, as I have a custom design that includes quad throttle bodies from a 20v  Just need to get an aftermarket ecu to run them.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 09:22
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| monkeymajik wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 14:23 |
Have you got any detail on the sr20 t/b? What does it use for cold start? Do you know if the 4age tps will fit on easily?
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HUH??????
I dont use a standard computer, dont have any cold start stuff and i didnt use a 4age tps.
As for its size? i cant remember exactly but i know its a fair bit bigger than the standard one. if i could find the other one i have i would measure it.
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 20:41
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shift
the gze TB maybe a bit of an odd case since its not like your typical 4ag intake, I'd imagine.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGTE T/B Choices
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Sun, 12 December 2004 22:53
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I beg to differ with YelloRolla (as much as i do agree) yes you don't really need to upsize t/b's as the standard size is suitable with the std manifold. But IMO i believe if your looking for outright power, then theres no other choice except for a larger t/b(or a better inlet design if required).
There's nothing wrong with 3in piping either. The top end will be long, high and hard, just wont be very street-able down low! But remember, there are compromises with power.
You'll have to match the cams, porting, turbo and IC system as well to suit your individual setups. Most people wouldn't need to run a larger throttle as the std one will flow adequate for what their turbo, cooler and head will allow to flow which can be a nice 250kw (that's a lots of street power).
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