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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 09 December 2004 14:32
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alright I didnt find anything in a quick search so here goes:
I have a 4AGE silvertop and the with extractors I am not happy with. So I want to make my own up and I am currently deciding what design would be best. So far this is what I have (all sizes in outside diameter for simplicity):
- 1.5 inch primaries, unknown length,
- 2 inch secondaries that go past the firewall and go into the 2 1/4 collector about 20cm past the firewall which would then go into a flex-pipe.
- 1&3 into 4&2 then into one
- I will try really hard to make all 4 pipes within mm of being equal lengths.
The whole exhaust will be made by me using press bend mandrels with no dags, steps, burrs or anything.
2 1/4 start to finish with one 40cm resonator and a lukey offset straight through muffler.
does this sound ok? are my primaries too long? I would like to keep them that way for clearence reasons.
How about a 4 into 1 setup like the TRD race ones?
Also right now my exhaust has pipes 1&4 into 2&3 then into one, how bad is that for perormance and economy?
anyone got some pics of what is considered good?
I guess I should give the rpm I want to tune it to but I havent decided yet.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 09 December 2004 14:52
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| Sam_Q wrote on Fri, 10 December 2004 01:32 |
- 1.5 inch primaries, unknown length,
- 2 inch secondaries that go past the firewall and go into the 2 1/4 collector about 20cm past the firewall which would then go into a flex-pipe.
- 1&3 into 4&2 then into one
Also right now my exhaust has pipes 1&4 into 2&3 then into one, how bad is that for perormance and economy?
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rpm will determine both diameter and length.
why 1/3, 4/2??
your firing order is 1-3-4-2 right?? so you WANT 1/4 and 3/2 to be joined (in a 4-2-1 setup)...
for 5500rpm... i'm guessing 1.5' primary, 1.5' secondary and 2.5' collector.
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 09 December 2004 15:00
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yeah that makes sense of the firing order, I guess I got mixed up.
I also know why the secondaries are to be the same diameter, makes me edgy doing it though.
How about lengths of each? how critical is it?
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 09 December 2004 23:51
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whats it in? if its still fwd and hasnt had serious mods ul be hard pressed to beat the stock ones, the b/t ones are supposed to be even better. the main restriction in the stock system is where it loops over the cross member.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Fri, 10 December 2004 08:12
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I can happily say it's in a rear wheel drive, I hate to be one of the crowd but yeah its an ae-86
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Fri, 10 December 2004 19:58
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a 20v ae86? you poor guy 
maybe a look at some fwd 20v stock ones will give you some ideas?
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Fri, 10 December 2004 21:43
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thats a good idea, anyone got some pictures of one? I have never seen one of these before.
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Sat, 11 December 2004 03:03
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| Sam_Q wrote on Sat, 11 December 2004 08:43 |
thats a good idea, anyone got some pictures of one? I have never seen one of these before.
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I've got a set of primaries from a silvertop in the garage.. Camera battery is charging atm.. I'll get back to ya later 
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Sat, 11 December 2004 04:12
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As promised - Stock FWD 20V extractors:
 
In - Diameter
Out - Diameter
Funky little flutey thing - I assume this decreases the turbulence of the exhaust gasses as they pass from the primary pipes into the secondaries?
That's probably enough - I'm sure you don't want the whole thread filled up with pics of FWD extractors 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Sun, 12 December 2004 07:44
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mmm pretty, they look good. what is pipe length from head to first collectors?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Sun, 12 December 2004 10:01
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Please excuse the crappy phone photos but heres some extractors a mate and I have made for our 20V clubmans.
4 into 1, 2" primaries are IIRC 670mm odd +/-3mm, custom made slip on merge collector to 2"1/2 straight to a titanium Yamaha R1 muffler.
Thats right, 2" primaries 
Yes they are too big I'm sure but holy crap they look good, even if I do say so myself. Will know in a couple of weeks just how they sound.
Julian.
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Sun, 12 December 2004 10:15
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Isn't there a rule about not posting pornography on these forums??!
Seriously though, those are gorgeous! 
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Sun, 12 December 2004 10:51
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Lucid: This is the first time I have seen factory extractors, I thought they were just some cast manifold like the 16V. If I had a FWD I dont think I would be touching these. So heres a hard question for you, in factory spec do you know how long it is after the flange that the two outlets join together? Also am i reading right that the primaries are 1 1/4 and the secondaries are 1 5/8, is that right? Anyway thank's for the effort, it's much appreciated.
jkvsnn: Nice looking pipes, I hope you have ear-plugs!
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Mon, 13 December 2004 10:32
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| oldcorollas wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 18:44 |
mmm pretty, they look good. what is pipe length from head to first collectors?
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Mate, I'll have to check on that for you next time i'm home and it's daylight.. Just to clarify - Do you mean the total length of the pipe (ie, what's pictured) or did you have something different in mind?
| Sam_Q wrote |
I thought they were just some cast manifold like the 16V. If I had a FWD I dont think I would be touching these.
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Why's that? To me it seems like a much smoother design than the factory cast manifold!
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So heres a hard question for you, in factory spec do you know how long it is after the flange that the two outlets join together?
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Nope - haven't seen the bottom half sorry 
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Also am i reading right that the primaries are 1 1/4 and the secondaries are 1 5/8, is that right?
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Pretty much - I didn't get the exact figures, but the exit did definitely seem a little larger than the entry (makes sense I guess when there's two smaller pipes merging into one..
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Mon, 13 December 2004 12:00
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sorry bad choice of words, what I mean is that if I had those 20V factory extractors I wouldnt touch them, they look too good. I was initually under the impression that the 20V just had another cast manifold.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Mon, 13 December 2004 12:24
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well I decided I would go for 1.5 inch primaries and 2 inch secondaries, I would of gone for 1 3/4 secondaries but 2 inch is a size I already have in mandrel bends. Anyway while I am limited in what I can do I started making my collectors, I spent about an hour and I am realy happy with how far I got considering the standard I made them to. Here they are:
2 x 1.5 inch inlet and the exact size for a flattened 2 inch for the exit. I didn't have a peice of 2 inch stainless at the time so I used a peice of mild as a template only.
A view from inside, I will do some more finishing later once its welded.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 06 January 2005 13:59
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well I have finished the important part, what do people think?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 06 January 2005 17:21
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Shit Sam - That is some nice work.
You can make me a set for my AW11 (16v big port please) any time! 
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4AGE-20 extractor design what's best
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Thu, 06 January 2005 20:08
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yeah thanks, what I didnt say is that these things were such a nightmare to make. Well I found out its increadibly hard to get the position right, harder again to shape the pipes right to fit together perfect and almost impossibly hard to get the length exactly right. Well anyway after alot of pain I managed to get it right with all 4 pipes as close as I could measure them.
Heres my costs so far:
-4 x 180 degree mandrel bends: 4 x $50 trade price
-one previous new but now relativly worn carbide burr: $40 trade price
lucky for me I got 2 lazer cut 16V flanges for free. For more pics see my Sprinter worklog with the link in my sig at the bottom.
Oh and Starfire, after doing this horrid job, there's not a chance in hell!
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