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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 08:07
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i have an st162 (89) with a didgy gearbox. how feasible isit to slap a 6x supra gearbox in there?
If so, does anybody have one they would like to sell?
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 08:29
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 Considering your celica is front wheel drive and supra's aren't it is not possible and therefore not feasible.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 09:06
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Bugger. i need a new gearbox and one with longer ratios, at least for 5th
i'm doing 92 km/h at 3000 rpm in 5th
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 09:14
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bahahhaha
this tiny fact escaped your attention?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 09:18
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obviously not or i wouldnt be complaining about it
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 12:45
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Just bolt the st 165 motor and box in .
Trevor
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 13:36
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ST165 motor still only comes with a 5spd.
or was there a special release or something.
Is yours running the 3sge or fe? coupe or liftback?
If I was you I'd take this oportunity to find a 3sgte and drop it in.... I was very close to doing this to my old ST162.
Find a new FWD box or reco your existing one and don't snap 2nd gear too often.....  (if yours is anything like mine was the syncros are probably gone on 2nd....correct?)
If you just want to have it rev a bit lower at cruising speeds you could look at putting a lower ratio final drive into it.... I'm sure there must be a few different ones considering how many different toyotas used this engine. Will reduce your acceleration though 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 14:18
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The synchro is going on 3rd and is quite bad on reverse. second is brilliant. it's a 3sge. i would like a 3sgte but i wan to wait until i have more points on my license, i still have a rather large speeding fine to pay off.if i could get the current one reconditioned and change the ratio on 5th, that would be excellent, but custom jobs are expensive
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Mon, 14 October 2002 23:01
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well you COULD cut the floor out, make it RWD, then fit a 2JZ+6 speed, but maybe you should pay the speeding fine first 
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Tue, 15 October 2002 08:43
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| Quote: |
The synchro is going on 3rd and is quite bad on reverse
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Correct me if I'm wrong but reverse shouldn't have synchromesh to begin with?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Tue, 15 October 2002 09:03
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so why would reverse crunch so badly?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Tue, 15 October 2002 13:12
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Because (as pointed out) it doesn't have synchromesh. You can't just jam it into gear like you would with 1st, you have to be more gentle. Put the clutch in, wait half a second, and gently push the stick into gear. If it doesn't go in properly the first time, quickly engage and disengage the clutch and try again. Oh, and needless to say, the car should be completely stationary before you try to engage reverse.
I always cringe when I see people shove their box into reverse and crunch the gears, I can just imagine what that's doing to the internals!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Tue, 15 October 2002 13:31
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You could always press the clutch, put to a gear that has syncro's (say 4th) and then put to reverse gently, as well.
Cheers
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Tue, 15 October 2002 14:01
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i am not a fool. dont patronise me. i have tried every trick in the book. 1st-R, 2nd-R etc. the only way it will not crunch is if i shift it into reverse while the engine is off.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Tue, 15 October 2002 22:00
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Not a fool hey?? comming from a man who honestly asked whether he could put a supra 6-speed in his fwd Celica?
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
Thaz the last straw..
Im outta here.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 00:42
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'Let he who is innocent cast the first stone'
Also, is your clutch disngaging properly? Sounds like it might not be if it always crunches reverse with the engine running.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 00:43
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and hey - it IS possible to put a v160 in an st162 - just not entirely practical, sensible or reasonable! After all, if you can put a 350 chev/powerglide into a camira...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 01:46
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Yes, not a fool. just because i dont know everything about gearbox swapping or the toyota supra, doesnt mean i dont know how to drive my car, which incidentally, could beat the crap out of yours
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 02:00
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Which one of these guys could your car show the door? Celicamad's?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 02:02
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Corvid
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 02:16
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I agree with Mr Shin, we have all asked questions that seem obvious to others. At least he has come to the right people to ask his questions, there is a hell of a lot of stuff I have learned from asking questions here.
The only way to learn is to ask someone who knows and this forum has a huge reserve of people who have actually been there and done that. Just remember not everyone is a Toyota fanatic so why do you assume that everyone should know a supra is RWD when a lot of people wouldn't even be able to identify one?
Lets just help each other with our different needs and leave the rest out of it.
Callum
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 03:17
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| benmeyer wrote on Wed, 16 October 2002 11:46 |
just because i dont know everything about gearbox swapping or the toyota supra, doesnt mean i dont know how to drive my car, which incidentally, could beat the crap out of yours
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Can we stop this juvenile bullshit? Do you even know what car he has?
Corvid. We were all unknowledgable once, try being constructive and help people instead of making comments like that. We try to make Toymods a friendly and helpful community for all people who are interested in modifying their cars. We don't need people to alienate and ridicule newbies.
As for the crunching in reverse, it really does sound like the clutch isn't disengaging. Try to double clutch:
Clutch in
Put it into neutral
Clutch out
Clutch in
Put it into reverse
Might help.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 10:28
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what you have to remember is the 3s-ge and 3s-gte are both high revving engines
they're not like a big block, where cruising rpm is 1500
a 3-gte is definitly worth it .. simple bolt in (well, compared to what I'm trying)
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 10:57
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And its not like they burn heaps of fuel when sitting on 3000rpm...
My old ST162 got from sydney to the Queensland border on one tank with fuel to spare. Thats over 700km's  .
Although mine used to do just under 110 at 3000rpm which is about 15km/h faster than what you quoted
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 11:25
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thats my problem. it can't be a stock tranny. i suppose a stock tranny would have a longer ratio on 5th?cause 92@ 3000 rpm is a bit low if u ask me
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 11:43
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| mrshin wrote on Wed, 16 October 2002 10:43 |
and hey - it IS possible to put a v160 in an st162 - just not entirely practical, sensible or reasonable! After all, if you can put a 350 chev/powerglide into a camira...
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Mrshin, I like the cut of your jib, to quote C. Montgomery Burns.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 11:48
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And we must agree on at least one thing: The camira is quite possibly the worst car Holden ever produced.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 11:50
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Also what are you checking RPM and speed with? Stocky gauges after a few years of bumps, sunshine, etc. aren't always the most accurate of things...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 11:52
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hmmm will probably kick my slow corollas ass too!! speaking of which.. =]
if you're having trouble engaging reverse sounds like ap ossible pressure plate problem =]
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 12:00
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Ah i see.
Would you guys think it's worth it to recondition an old stock-as-a-rock tranny or should i look at something newer? the n/a st185's were all fwd werent they?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 13:17
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not worth re-coing a gearbox like that
almost certainly cheaper to find a wreck and grab a st165 box (although I have no idea on prices)
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 13:23
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I have the homologation form for a ST162 and here's a little math.
The diff in australian models is (i think) usually a 4.176:1 ratio, and fifth gear ratio is 32/39 standard wheel radius is 7" + 195mm * 0.6
so radius is 0.2948m, meaning on cold tyres, circumference is 1.852m.
90km/h = 1500m/min
So the revs per min done at 90km/h on a completely stock ST162 at the tyre is 809.935. And hence at the engine, multiply that figure by 4.176 * (32/39) and you get 2775rpm. I think. 
That is of course bs.
Tyres tend to compress a fair bit, the effective rolling radius is different, so you get a rolling radius of about 0.2811 and you get rpm of about 2910 @ 90km/h fyi.
Also note that the ST162s speedo is under-estimative until about 100km/h so when it says you are doing 90 you are doing 91 (according to Wheels magazine anyway).
If you want longer ratios, get a different diff, there are quite a number of ratios available ranging from about 3.045 to 4.6
However, as to where to get these from - who knows. These are only on the homolgation form for the car, and may not be very readily available - probably country specific stuff. I'd imagine a European diff would be much longer, probably because of their higher speed highways etc etc.
They also have a close ratio box (japan only I'd imagine - don't quote me though), but from the revs you say you are doing, I doubt you've got it, you'd be doing more like 3600 at 90 kays.
Hope I was helpful!!!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 13:29
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Thanks FWDBoy. that actually makes some sense of it.
st 165? i am not aware of this body type. was this the coupe (st) version?
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 13:45
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The ST165 is a 4WD turbo version of the ST162, but they don't share quite the same body (4WD components wouldn't fit in a ST162), but the power plant from the ST165 fits in fairly easily into the ST162, I'm not sure though seeing as I don't know anyone who wants 150kW at the front wheels and a ****load of torque.
I think you can get 3S-GTEs for less than 2 grand....
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 13:48
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Oh yes. the infamous 165-GT4. they only made something like 400 of them. very rare. at least in australia.
if i had my way i'd have a 3rd gen 3sgte over me front wheels. I'd spend the first300m of a 1/4 mile run trying to gain traction.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Wed, 16 October 2002 21:41
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all the STxx5 are all turbocharged 4wd variants...
the STxx2 are all powered by 3SGE and are FWD
the STxx4 are all powered by 5SFE and are FWD
the ST183 are convertible fwd with 3SGE gen 2
there might be an ST203? I am not sure though.
150kw at the front wheels isn't too bad FWDboy. Hell I drive around with that everyday, the only traction control you need is your foot, after driving one for a while you learn its little kinks and things...you can almost predict what it will do when u slam the throttle so you just correct it =] Like a RWD I guess but the wrong end goes out =]
No normal FWD box will hold upto the 3SGTE if you drive it hard, even the Camry V6 box will eventually go =]
There are only 2 types of gearboxes that will hang together in FWD.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 00:30
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And they are??
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 05:37
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Hehe - man I've had plenty of fun on the rally track with just the standard ST162, either drifting or understeering. I think it takes two very sensitive feet. One on the brake, and one on the accelerator. Of course, it gets confusing when you have to put your left foot on the clutch...
I suppose it would be near impossible to convert a ST165 box to a fwd one.
You could always go the ducks guts and grab a Holinger or X-Trac if you got squillions
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 11:03
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Ahhhh the camira... Yeah it is a pretty ordinary car - but holden HAS produced several worse ones - anybody even driven an RB (fwd) Gemini? RWD gem's are a top little car - can't say the same for the front drivers!
Also, one day I DO intend to work on a far worse car - a TM magna! Cut the ENTIRE floor out, add a decent engine and 4wd system, and make sure it looks AWFUL in that brown colour they came out in... I'm gonna really love looking at peoples faces after a good thrashing 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 11:07
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hmmm. Mitsubishi certainly have come a way since. Now, they have what is arguably the best sports V6 from the big 3 aussie manufacturers. a 180 kw magna.
Stock bodykits arent sposed to look good... i think mitsubishi forgot
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 12:26
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*clears his throat
ahem... factory supra body kit? that thing breaks the rules as well... looks amazing for a factory one
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 12:30
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Maybe they thought they would save customers 5k for a bodykit and respray?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Putting 6x Supra Gearbox into 89 st162 of roughly same age
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Thu, 17 October 2002 16:08
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ben,
I have answered this what they are question too many times to bother doing it again, do a search and you will find your answer =] I dont mean to be rude, but its been answered many times before.
FWDboy,
Btw mate its fairly simple to convert a ST165/185/205 box to FWD....but the fact remains its still an open spinner front diff. and weighs around the 85kg mark.
Michael
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