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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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 ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Mon, 14 October 2002 13:43
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ok guys... i just bought a pioneer deck its a 45x4.
n i;m runnin it with no amp..just the deck it self.
i;m usin this 6'x9' speakers brand:ZEUS a generic brand of sony. its a 4way 300watt. i dunno
when i use a lot of bass on the speaker...the speakers..shakes..n have a lot of distortion.or some kind or rattle?......... why is it this?
pls explain.....
fanx guys..
"4a-fc killer in usin boat anchors"
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Mon, 14 October 2002 14:02
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It be rather simple.
Its either:
The speaker playing outside its intended frequency range
OR
Clipping
OR
Badly mounted speakers
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Mon, 14 October 2002 14:10
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lol... how much bass?
let me guess u turned it all the way up right?
it will distort
get a sub-woofer
then u can boof boof with the best of them (atho u might need an amp)
until then turn the bass and/or volume down
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Mon, 14 October 2002 14:13
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Bass driver's cone has probably seperated from its surround....
Are they rubber surrounds or foam? you may be able to fix it with a bit of glue.... probably better off just replacing them.
Buy better quality speakers next time. (I don't even like sony, let alone something they manufacture and don't want to put their name on)
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Mon, 14 October 2002 23:36
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2 things that suck: crap speakers and head unit amps  Combine them and its amazing how bad something can sound 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Mon, 14 October 2002 23:51
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My Pioneer deck held up pretty well driving my front 6" speakers. I was happy for a while...and then I got a sub and a "real" amp...the difference between just the 6" sounded god, so clear...and the sub just filled out the music really well...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 00:05
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If its just distortion geting an amp for the 6x9's would definetealy halp alot in giving more clarity
but as someone sugggested get a sub
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 01:20
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haha...guys....fanx 4 all ur help n responses... yeh i was finkin of gettin a amp....but hell i got no money...unless some wanna get me a hot 1 n i pay 4 it>?....hahah
dammit...i should of ask u guys b4 i bought the freakin speakers........arrrgg......dammit
i fink that ur rite blacki..i did a prerty bad craftmanship wif the mountin...lol...like hangin pretti loose...but i dun that a prob..mayb a lil.....
n the speakers wire..a big enough i fink....i use the house amp wire.........
btw ne 1 from adelaide that i can keep in touch wif incase i need help?.......
fanx..gguys.....
"4a-fc killer in usin boat anchors"
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 01:27
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seriously man... please use some better english.. it would be easier to understand.
agreed with all points made here. sounds like the mounting is your problem. also too often i see people whinging about the distorted bass their head-unit powered 6x9's get. Head units only supply around 10Wrms at MAX!! this is tiny compared to an external amp.. hence turning up the volume will distort/clip the head unit's amp, adn then adding bass boost at high volume will further clip the output from the head unit... esp if its a mid-low range pioneer (also known as clip-o-matic)
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 01:31
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You hook up the *remote power on* lead on the amp to the *remote* or *ant+* on your head-unit. That way your amp will turn on when you turn your head-unit on.
(** or similar)
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 01:39
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If your speakers are a little loose that's your problem.
Get some rubber from your local factory outlet cost me about $2.
DO IT. You'll be suprised at the difference.
And what are you mounting it to? Plastic,steel...
or have you made up a MDF panel to mount to?
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 02:02
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fanx..again...omg..i didn;t expect u guys 2 respond that quick..lol
what was that blacki..how u mount the power on/..again....plz explain
and 2 u witlz fanx for the reply but what does "Head units only supply around 10Wrms at MAX!" mean...
fanx..again..
ne of u guys have MSN instead of waitin i talk to u 1on1
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 02:07
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I second the note of speaking in English, much easier to explain in than 133t.
Basically go search on the net for the difference between peak power "45Wx4" and the WRMS power. From memory the Pioneer units are about 17.9 or something, they are easily the meatiest of the head units rated at 45W peak...
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 02:30
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I second the note of speaking in English, much easier to explain in than 133t. frank what do u mean by that?......mmm....okies.
neways...lol yeh i did..still dun undertand that technical shit...lol...if u can gib me a simple answer?.......
it would be easier.........
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 05:13
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alrite guys......heres another question thati have for you guys......
the question is...i have a 300 watt 4way 6x9 speakers....if i get a lower wattage of the amp....EG.:120 wat amp..cost low due to the price budget i have..
would it sound more better n more thump onto it?...compare to the the 6x9 now that i am runnin it by 45x4..so yeh...
reply greatly appreiated.....
JIM
4a-fc killer in usin boat anchors"
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 07:37
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youre cliping your amp. plain and simple. dont listen to this "your cone is loose", "the speaker is vibrating"... money is on clipping your amp. keep doing it and youll kill you head unit. the chaepo zues speakers will live through it, your headunit/amp will not.
lower the volume!! or buy better speakers and an amp to drive them.
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Tue, 15 October 2002 07:39
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ps, if you buy a cheap low wattage amp and still try and run big noise through your larger speakers, youll just kill that amp too. just decide what you want, and buy a proper matching set of gear.
ed
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Wed, 16 October 2002 07:13
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No offence but, is english your second language?
Please try to make an effort to make yourself easily understood.
You should have a antenna power lead or remote power lead coming out of your head-unit. You connect this power lead to the remote power lead on your amp. I cannot explain it much easier than that.
Your Pioneer head-unit will not have any problems with clipping if it has been manufactured in the past five years. However you will most likely experience distortion if it is not set up properly over volume setting 20.
Don't buy an amp until you've securely mounted your speakers.
And don't listen to anyone who tells you that "you won't experience any loss in performance if the only thing that holds your speakers in place is your speaker wire".
The Pioneer head-unit is a 45watt x 4channel 4ohm output
Your ZEUS speakers will run fine if they're impedence is 6 ohm or under and mounted properly.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Wed, 16 October 2002 10:05
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| Quote: |
2. Overloading the amplifier (clipping)
The term clipping describes a situation in which the signal peak is cut off, or clipped, when the amplifier is over-loaded.
The distortion to the amplifier output signal which occurs as a result of clipping is very high in energy, but is usually of very high frequency.
In some circumstances the distortion is inaudible, but is still capable of wreking a loudspeaker within a few seconds. As a basic rule, an amplifier with a higher output power will reach its clipping threshold later.
You are therefore less likely to damage a loudspeaker by clip-ping if you use a powerful amplifier.
There are many amplifiers which reduce the danger of clipping by special circuitry which produces what is sometimes termed "soft clipping".
However, the best protection against this destructive problem is an amplifier fitted with a clipping protection circuit, which switches off the speaker output immediately if clipping should occur.
Such an amplifier provides effective protection for the loudspeakers without affecting the quality of sound.
All ? amplifiers are fitted with a Protection circuit, which protects the speakers from clipping in this effective manner.
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if the deck has clipping protection, maybe youre alright, but from the sounds of it, it doesnt. sure, check the mounting, any other vibrating structures, make sure the cone hasnt detached from the surround, but that stuff wont kill eqip. clipping will.
when you clip, your amp is essentially producing a straight DC current, not a wave form. if youre lucky, nothing will happen, but mostlikely, youll melt your speakers, and as a result, drop your resistance and fry your amp
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Wed, 16 October 2002 20:01
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yep i agree with what most ppl are saying check to make sure your speakers are relatively secure the tighter the better,
Here is what u are trying to do you have a 45watt head unit feeding your 6.x9s 45watts each, now they are rated at 300watts. So for them to work effectively they need to be given a shit load more power, make sense? Its like trying to drive a commonwhore with a 1litre 2 cylinder engine its just not gonna work properly.
So go get you self a good quality amp around 200-250 watt, you only need 2 channels( left and right ) so u might be able to save there i'd say your looking around 250-300$ for the amp add on 30-40 for all the wiring and fuses to hook it up properly. And for leaving it turned on, there should be a wire coming out of the head unit that is called remote amp or amp+ or something like that. on your amp you will have three plugs a Negative a positive and another positive, hook up the wire from your head unit to one of the positive plugs these may be labled differently but u get the idea. Then what happens is the amp will only turn on when the head unit is turned on, that way u dont have to worry about switches and stuff.
I have a 45x4 sony expload unit its about 2 or 3 years old now and it powers my 140wat 6.5" fine on its own but i have some 160wat 6x9s that go a bit distored over the volume setting 34, but the fronts keep up fine, ive got sound deadner in the front doors and all tht stuff, I've tryed using a mates 200wat amp to power the 6x9's and it sounds so much better u can really hear the difference in bass and clarity. but when running straight off the head unit it goes crappy i think its because the 6x9s are trying to suck to much power ie 160wats worth and they are just starving hence the distortion.
I know i have covered alot of what people have already said but i hope this clears some stuff up for you.
Now when people say speak english they mean spell stuff out in english like instead of typing fanx type thanks takes longer granted but its a lot easier to understand when reading it
Cheers
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 00:08
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guys guys..thankyou all for the help.i just don;t know what to say,.... i speechless..for that i now goin to speak proper english..hahah...hows that 4 u hunty? and ed? and blacki?
oh well, i guess that i have to save up for a amp now hah?
btw if i bought a amp more then 300watts...example more then 300watts in 1 channel.. will i blow the speakers? or all i have to do is turn it lower, and becareful that it doesn;t distort?.
plx....think..n reply.
thanks all again
JIM
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 03:54
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Correct Ed. Clipping is a silent killer.
However, to straighten out this...
| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 16 October 2002 20:05 |
when you clip, your amp is essentially producing a straight DC current, not a wave form. if youre lucky, nothing will happen, but mostlikely, youll melt your speakers, and as a result, drop your resistance and fry your amp
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you still have a waveform clipping is when it flattens out at the top and bottom of the waveform.
DC on a speaker will not kill it unless your putting too much power through it.
Before you go out and get an amp, make sure the speakers sound good (no vibrations,etc.). Because you'll only be making your problems bigger.
When you put your new amp in just have the gain turned right down. Gradually turn it up but never have it a full.
Those speakers are rated a 300watts peak so they'll take 300watts peak, but you're not going to have your amp up full gain anyway.
[Updated on: Thu, 17 October 2002 04:02]
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 05:07
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yeh yep..the speakers are workin fine..i tried it wif my mini hifi system that i have in my house .,..sounds ok..but can;t much bass out of them but heaps of treble....
y is this...even when i try to pump more bass its starts to distort..is it bcoz more mini hifi is not producin enough power? 
fanx again..jim
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 05:30
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I don't know about the output ratings of your mini hi-fi system...
Most home stereos output 8ohm.
Your 6x9's will take 4ohms.
This means that the power output (watts) of your mini hi-fi, is effectively doubled. Because your speakers only take half the power to drive. That should give you an idea of how much power you're putting through your speakers.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 06:30
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| Blacki wrote on Thu, 17 October 2002 13:54 |
you still have a waveform clipping is when it flattens out at the top and bottom of the waveform.
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yes, but in the extreeme case, when the waveform is so big, with >90% of the wave clipped outside the amps range, practically no wave exists inside the range, and all the flattened peaks just add up to two parrallel lines = dc current
and that typically overheats the coil in even the best of speakers, melts the insulation, you drop R and then suck the guts out of your amp.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 06:38
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oh, and DONT run the car 4ohm speakers off your home 8ohm stereo, that is the quickest way to kill you stereo unit bar none!!
ed
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ..::auDio H3Lp::..
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Thu, 17 October 2002 13:24
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well its ok i guess.. the mini HIFI system that i have is only 6olms. doesnt produce that much energy.
me goin for the amp soon...n what should i look 4?..
yeh speakers sounds fine...i just mounted them into the boot lol (inside that is) haah//mounted into a piece of wood..sounds better then b4..
neother suggestions on the amp?........
fans again guys..
JIM
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