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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 10:17
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Well, sort of.

I got them in and everything bolted up fine... except for the tie-rod ends. I rooted the threads when I bashed them out of the steering arms, but they needed replacing anyway so that's no big deal - it just means I can't drive the car until I get new ones. 
However, I did notice a bigger problem: the MX83 steering arms I'm using aren't as thick as the MA61 steering arms, so the threaded section that goes through the steering arm (I suck at describing stuff like this) is too short, so even if I could get the nut back on there I wouldn't be able to tighten it properly. I hope that makes sense, but the point is I can't use the MA61 tie-rod ends any more. Obviously the MX83 tie-rod ends will work with the MX83 steering arms, but the question is will they work with the MA61 steering rack? Anyone have any idea? If someone could measure the thread pitch and diameter of an MX83 steering rack before I fork out for new ones I would be most grateful!
Anyway, I put the wheels on and lowered the car on the ground to see how it looks. Um... pictures speak a thousand words, so take a look:



As you can see, the offset of the wheels is all bad, and the camber is clearly several degrees positive. In other words, it's all bad! I'm hoping the camber can be corrected by camber pins, but getting those tyres back inside the guards will require new rims with higher offset (currently +25).
Heaps more photos HERE (thanks to Wastegate, my official photographer ).
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Registered: August 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 10:24

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Well that shit aint cool.
You sporting a new haircut norbie?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 10:34

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That's sergeant Norbie to you, private! 
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 11:11

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if they'd made the soopra in 1969, it WOULD have had that much camber
springs look pretty tho
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Location: Sydney
Registered: January 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 13:40

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They are large brakes, and sexy wheels. Nice
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 15:48

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it looks like you have hairy breasts
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Location: Burlington, On. Canada
Registered: January 2004
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 16:49

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Norbie.
Excellent work. I was thinking of picking up some MX83 struts to see how well this would work. My answer for the steering knuckle problem is to build custom knuckles.
If it seems that your +25 wheels do not have enough offset then that can be easily resolved with different wheels. There seems to be an abundence of wheels with an offset from +35 to +40. Thay may work for you.
One question though. How far did the caliper outside edge go past the center part of the disc when everything was mounted? In other words will the caliper rub againest certian wheel spokes if the wheels center is almost flush with the spokes?
Thanks for the pics.
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I supported Toymods
Location: I renounced punctuation
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Sun, 02 January 2005 22:16

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Norbie wrote on Sun, 02 January 2005 21:17 | However, I did notice a bigger problem: the MX83 steering arms I'm using aren't as thick as the MA61 steering arms, so the threaded section that goes through the steering arm (I suck at describing stuff like this) is too short, so even if I could get the nut back on there I wouldn't be able to tighten it properly. I hope that makes sense, but the point is I can't use the MA61 tie-rod ends any more. Obviously the MX83 tie-rod ends will work with the MX83 steering arms, but the question is will they work with the MA61 steering rack? Anyone have any idea? If someone could measure the thread pitch and diameter of an MX83 steering rack before I fork out for new ones I would be most grateful!
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You need to make sure the tapers are correct first off. Check that the taper on the MX83 and MA61 tie rod ends is the same. If they are the same, great. Then, just get a spacer (like a big washer) made to take up the difference in length just like I did here.

The shiny bit below the castellated nut is the spacer.
Norbie wrote on Sun, 02 January 2005 21:17 | I'm hoping the camber can be corrected by camber pins...
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Longer control arm? How long is the MX83 one vis a vis the MA61 arm? Adjustable strut tops?
Oh, and who the fuck cut your hair man?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 00:45

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rsdeo wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 02:49 | If it seems that your +25 wheels do not have enough offset then that can be easily resolved with different wheels. There seems to be an abundence of wheels with an offset from +35 to +40. Thay may work for you.
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Yeah, I'm going to see if I can borrow some JZA80 wheels from someone and see if they fit... AFAIK they're 17x8 and +35. In any case there is plenty of stuff available in those offsets, as you said.
Quote: | One question though. How far did the caliper outside edge go past the center part of the disc when everything was mounted? In other words will the caliper rub againest certian wheel spokes if the wheels center is almost flush with the spokes?
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There is very little clearance between the caliper and the wheel spokes... I can imagine there would be clearance issues with some wheel designs.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 00:49

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gianttomato wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 08:16 | You need to make sure the tapers are correct first off. Check that the taper on the MX83 and MA61 tie rod ends is the same. If they are the same, great. Then, just get a spacer (like a big washer) made to take up the difference in length just like I did here.
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Interesting! I thought of doing something like that but I was worried it might be a bit dodgy. Well I suppose if it works for you it's worth a try! I'll grab some calipers and see if that taper is the same.
Quote: | Longer control arm? How long is the MX83 one vis a vis the MA61 arm? Adjustable strut tops?
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I already have adjustable strut tops, but there's nowhere near enough adjustment to correct that much camber. I'm going to speak to one of the local suspension gurus up here and see what he thinks; if camber pins aren't enough to do the trick, I think longer control arms will be the go.
Quote: | Oh, and who the fuck cut your hair man?
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Some dodgy little Asian hairdresser who doesn't understand the meaning of "short, but not too short".
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 00:53

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That looks great apart from the slightly positive camber.
Have you got adj strut tops fitted or are they on their way ?
Offset seems to be an issue at the front only though.
Nice haircut too. I hope it was for free.....
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I supported Toymods
Location: I renounced punctuation
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 02:02

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Didn't realise you had adjustable tops already. I suspect you'll need a combination of all three methods to get some negative camber. At least the steering wheel will centre nicely!! 
Nothing I drive has struts so forgive me for the stupid question, but how is the stub axle bit attached to the strut tube? Could it be possible to fit some other stub axle bit to the strut tube so that the stub axle doesn't angle so far below horizontal?
Did you keep your beautiful golden locks for posterity?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 02:48

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The stub axle is an integral part of the strut tube, ie it cannot be separated.
I just found out that stock JZA80 rims are +50mm, so that will bring my wheels a further 25mm inboard. Provided there is enough strut-to-wheel clearance, that should get my wheels back inside the guards quite nicely. As for the camber thing, you're right I'll probably need a combination of approaches to get that sorted. It couldn't just be easy could it?
As for my "golden locks", they were surgically removed nearly a year ago. Get with the program man! 
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Location: Montrose, VIC
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 03:06

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Pity about the camber, cos the hair looks cool!
(Hair on the knees, that is...)
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: June 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 04:34

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nice work man, im sure you'll be quite happy with the new stopping power
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 07:45

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Norbie wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:48 | I just found out that stock JZA80 rims are +50mm, so that will bring my wheels a further 25mm inboard. Provided there is enough strut-to-wheel clearance, that should get my wheels back inside the guards quite nicely.
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Will that reduce track? and in QLD would that be illegal?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 21:00

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Norbie wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 13:48 | The stub axle is an integral part of the strut tube, ie it cannot be separated.
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One thing that has been done commonly in the past (was done to my ccircuit RX2 Improved Production car) is to get the lower section of the strut tube bent ever so slightly to get more negative camber, but the amount taht you need is probably too great.
Bugger, as it looked like a good solution.
Didn't this issue show up when you were doing the test fits ?
Cheers
Michael B
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 22:54

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Yes, I was expecting the positive camber, and there are ways around this so it doesn't really bother me. The unexpected part was the wheels not fitting inside the guards, which can also be fixed but not cheaply (ie new wheels). 
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Mon, 03 January 2005 23:00

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Norbie wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 09:54 | Yes, I was expecting the positive camber, and there are ways around this so it doesn't really bother me. The unexpected part was the wheels not fitting inside the guards, which can also be fixed but not cheaply (ie new wheels). 
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You should be able to sell the wheels easy enough.
What would the longer LCA's come from ? Any ideas yet ? As that would also affect the track, but with different offset wheels, it shouldn't be a problem.
What of the back wheels though, as you'll still want the 0 offset so it looks like 3 piece Simmons or similar ?
Where did you get the R33 calipers from ?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2004
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Tue, 04 January 2005 01:53

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Quote: | Where did you get the R33 calipers from ?
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I think most people ended up buying theirs from RMA Spares on the Gold Coast PH.5532 7914. They had the best price that I could find $220.
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Location: Ipswich
Registered: May 2002
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Tue, 04 January 2005 10:11

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bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 09:00 | You should be able to sell the wheels easy enough.
What would the longer LCA's come from ? Any ideas yet ? As that would also affect the track, but with different offset wheels, it shouldn't be a problem.
What of the back wheels though, as you'll still want the 0 offset so it looks like 3 piece Simmons or similar ?
Where did you get the R33 calipers from ?
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Yeah selling bling 17's to suit a Skyline shouldn't be a problem... there are Skyline ricers aplenty in these parts!
Longer LCA's are sort of a last resort. As demuire hinted, offset RCA's might be the go and it turns out ImportBitz can get me a pair for a good price. I'll give that a try in conjunction with camber bolts and see if it solves my little dilemma.
I'm going to see if +40/50 rims fit on the back of the Supra as is, and if not I'll investigate the option of *gasp* spacers. But I'm not too concerned about the rear end just yet, I'm more worried about getting my steering connected so I can drive the stupid car again!
As Buccy hinted, I bought my calipers from RMA Spares. Good price for what you get!
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Location: Hobart, Tas
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Tue, 04 January 2005 10:53

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Nice work, Norbie. I'm assuming those are King springs... what rate did you end up getting?
If you don't mind me asking, how much did the coilover 'bits' cost, and are the collets welded on or just sitting ontop of the line of weld where the stock lower perch would be?
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Location: Ipswich
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Tue, 04 January 2005 11:12

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Quote: | I'm more worried about getting my steering connected so I can drive the stupid car again!
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Steering? Pah, they're overated. Besides, aren't you the king of "steer by throttle"?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Tue, 04 January 2005 12:36

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Stefan wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 20:53 | Nice work, Norbie. I'm assuming those are King springs... what rate did you end up getting?
If you don't mind me asking, how much did the coilover 'bits' cost, and are the collets welded on or just sitting ontop of the line of weld where the stock lower perch would be?
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I bought the struts already converted to coilover (they used to be attached to a dorifto Chaser in Japan), and yes the collets are welded on. They were $450 complete, however the strut inserts were stuffed and the 950 lb/in springs were far too stiff to even consider using, so I bought 300 lb/in King springs and Koni yellow inserts for $950 all up. Total cost for the front end so far, including suspension, brakes and tyres, is over the $3k mark already - and this is 100% DIY!
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Tue, 04 January 2005 20:15

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Norbie wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 23:36 | Total cost for the front end so far, including suspension, brakes and tyres, is over the $3k mark already - and this is 100% DIY!
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Adds up pretty quick doesn't it .....
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Fri, 07 January 2005 01:09

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Any news on a possible fix Norbs ...... ?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Fri, 07 January 2005 01:15

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I have ordered MX83 tie-rod ends, but haven't had a chance to pick them up yet... it's pretty hard when your car is half disassembled. Should be able to pick them up tomorrow morning, and if it works as planned (fingers crossed) the car should be "sort of" driveable by the end of the day. 
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: September 2003
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Fri, 07 January 2005 01:24

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What about the slightly positive camber ?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed!
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Fri, 07 January 2005 01:34
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Heheh, one thing at a time! I need to get the car driving so I can get it to a suspension shop, then I'll try to get the camber fixed.
John from ImportBitz is getting me a pair of offset RCA's so hopefully that will get rid of most of the camber, but if it's not enough I'll get camber bolts installed in the LCA's as well. And once all that is sorted, I'll try to get my hands on some later-model JZA80 rims for a test fit, which hopefully will get the wheels back inside the guards.
But don't worry, I'll keep you updated on my progress. 
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