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Norbie
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May 2002
MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 10:17 Go to next message
Well, sort of.

http://www.turbosupras.com/~nclewer/images/general/300D/020105/images/IMG_2465.jpg

I got them in and everything bolted up fine... except for the tie-rod ends. I rooted the threads when I bashed them out of the steering arms, but they needed replacing anyway so that's no big deal - it just means I can't drive the car until I get new ones. Sad

However, I did notice a bigger problem: the MX83 steering arms I'm using aren't as thick as the MA61 steering arms, so the threaded section that goes through the steering arm (I suck at describing stuff like this) is too short, so even if I could get the nut back on there I wouldn't be able to tighten it properly. I hope that makes sense, but the point is I can't use the MA61 tie-rod ends any more. Obviously the MX83 tie-rod ends will work with the MX83 steering arms, but the question is will they work with the MA61 steering rack? Anyone have any idea? If someone could measure the thread pitch and diameter of an MX83 steering rack before I fork out for new ones I would be most grateful!

Anyway, I put the wheels on and lowered the car on the ground to see how it looks. Um... pictures speak a thousand words, so take a look:

http://www.turbosupras.com/~nclewer/images/general/300D/020105/images/IMG_2489.jpg

http://www.turbosupras.com/~nclewer/images/general/300D/020105/images/IMG_2491.jpg

http://www.turbosupras.com/~nclewer/images/general/300D/020105/images/IMG_2498.jpg

As you can see, the offset of the wheels is all bad, and the camber is clearly several degrees positive. In other words, it's all bad! I'm hoping the camber can be corrected by camber pins, but getting those tyres back inside the guards will require new rims with higher offset (currently +25).

Heaps more photos HERE (thanks to Wastegate, my official photographer Very Happy ).
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BlackSupra
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well that shit aint cool.

You sporting a new haircut norbie?
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
That's sergeant Norbie to you, private! Razz
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oldcorollas
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if they'd made the soopra in 1969, it WOULD have had that much camber Laughing Laughing

springs look pretty tho Very Happy
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Alchemist
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
They are large brakes, and sexy wheels. Nice Very Happy
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DTrain
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
it looks like you have hairy breasts Very Happy
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rsdeo
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Burlington, On. Canada
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January 2004
Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie.

Excellent work. I was thinking of picking up some MX83 struts to see how well this would work. My answer for the steering knuckle problem is to build custom knuckles.

If it seems that your +25 wheels do not have enough offset then that can be easily resolved with different wheels. There seems to be an abundence of wheels with an offset from +35 to +40. Thay may work for you.

One question though. How far did the caliper outside edge go past the center part of the disc when everything was mounted? In other words will the caliper rub againest certian wheel spokes if the wheels center is almost flush with the spokes?

Thanks for the pics.
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gianttomato
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Sun, 02 January 2005 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Sun, 02 January 2005 21:17

However, I did notice a bigger problem: the MX83 steering arms I'm using aren't as thick as the MA61 steering arms, so the threaded section that goes through the steering arm (I suck at describing stuff like this) is too short, so even if I could get the nut back on there I wouldn't be able to tighten it properly. I hope that makes sense, but the point is I can't use the MA61 tie-rod ends any more. Obviously the MX83 tie-rod ends will work with the MX83 steering arms, but the question is will they work with the MA61 steering rack? Anyone have any idea? If someone could measure the thread pitch and diameter of an MX83 steering rack before I fork out for new ones I would be most grateful!

You need to make sure the tapers are correct first off. Check that the taper on the MX83 and MA61 tie rod ends is the same. If they are the same, great. Then, just get a spacer (like a big washer) made to take up the difference in length just like I did here.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/corona2jzge/Crown%20V8%20conversion/rack%20and%20pinion%20conversion/rack%20and%20pinion%20conversion%20006.jpg
The shiny bit below the castellated nut is the spacer.

Norbie wrote on Sun, 02 January 2005 21:17

I'm hoping the camber can be corrected by camber pins...

Longer control arm? How long is the MX83 one vis a vis the MA61 arm? Adjustable strut tops?

Oh, and who the fuck cut your hair man?
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rsdeo wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 02:49

If it seems that your +25 wheels do not have enough offset then that can be easily resolved with different wheels. There seems to be an abundence of wheels with an offset from +35 to +40. Thay may work for you.

Yeah, I'm going to see if I can borrow some JZA80 wheels from someone and see if they fit... AFAIK they're 17x8 and +35. In any case there is plenty of stuff available in those offsets, as you said.
Quote:

One question though. How far did the caliper outside edge go past the center part of the disc when everything was mounted? In other words will the caliper rub againest certian wheel spokes if the wheels center is almost flush with the spokes?

There is very little clearance between the caliper and the wheel spokes... I can imagine there would be clearance issues with some wheel designs.
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 00:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gianttomato wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 08:16

You need to make sure the tapers are correct first off. Check that the taper on the MX83 and MA61 tie rod ends is the same. If they are the same, great. Then, just get a spacer (like a big washer) made to take up the difference in length just like I did here.

Interesting! I thought of doing something like that but I was worried it might be a bit dodgy. Well I suppose if it works for you it's worth a try! I'll grab some calipers and see if that taper is the same.
Quote:

Longer control arm? How long is the MX83 one vis a vis the MA61 arm? Adjustable strut tops?

I already have adjustable strut tops, but there's nowhere near enough adjustment to correct that much camber. I'm going to speak to one of the local suspension gurus up here and see what he thinks; if camber pins aren't enough to do the trick, I think longer control arms will be the go.
Quote:

Oh, and who the fuck cut your hair man?


Some dodgy little Asian hairdresser who doesn't understand the meaning of "short, but not too short". Rolling Eyes
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
That looks great apart from the slightly positive camber.

Have you got adj strut tops fitted or are they on their way ?

Offset seems to be an issue at the front only though.

Nice haircut too. I hope it was for free.....
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gianttomato
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Didn't realise you had adjustable tops already. I suspect you'll need a combination of all three methods to get some negative camber. At least the steering wheel will centre nicely!! Laughing

Nothing I drive has struts so forgive me for the stupid question, but how is the stub axle bit attached to the strut tube? Could it be possible to fit some other stub axle bit to the strut tube so that the stub axle doesn't angle so far below horizontal?

Did you keep your beautiful golden locks for posterity? Laughing
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The stub axle is an integral part of the strut tube, ie it cannot be separated.

I just found out that stock JZA80 rims are +50mm, so that will bring my wheels a further 25mm inboard. Provided there is enough strut-to-wheel clearance, that should get my wheels back inside the guards quite nicely. As for the camber thing, you're right I'll probably need a combination of approaches to get that sorted. It couldn't just be easy could it?

As for my "golden locks", they were surgically removed nearly a year ago. Get with the program man! Razz
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mrshin
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 03:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pity about the camber, cos the hair looks cool!

(Hair on the knees, that is...)
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V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 04:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nice work man, im sure you'll be quite happy with the new stopping power Smile
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CrUZsida
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:48

I just found out that stock JZA80 rims are +50mm, so that will bring my wheels a further 25mm inboard. Provided there is enough strut-to-wheel clearance, that should get my wheels back inside the guards quite nicely.

Will that reduce track? and in QLD would that be illegal?
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It will bring the track back closer to where it should be... the track is currently much wider than stock in case you can't tell from the wheels sticking out way past the body!

[Updated on: Mon, 03 January 2005 09:40]

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bbaacchhyy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 13:48

The stub axle is an integral part of the strut tube, ie it cannot be separated.




One thing that has been done commonly in the past (was done to my ccircuit RX2 Improved Production car) is to get the lower section of the strut tube bent ever so slightly to get more negative camber, but the amount taht you need is probably too great.


Bugger, as it looked like a good solution.

Didn't this issue show up when you were doing the test fits ?

Cheers

Michael B
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yes, I was expecting the positive camber, and there are ways around this so it doesn't really bother me. The unexpected part was the wheels not fitting inside the guards, which can also be fixed but not cheaply (ie new wheels). Sad
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Mon, 03 January 2005 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 09:54

Yes, I was expecting the positive camber, and there are ways around this so it doesn't really bother me. The unexpected part was the wheels not fitting inside the guards, which can also be fixed but not cheaply (ie new wheels). Sad



You should be able to sell the wheels easy enough.

What would the longer LCA's come from ? Any ideas yet ? As that would also affect the track, but with different offset wheels, it shouldn't be a problem.

What of the back wheels though, as you'll still want the 0 offset so it looks like 3 piece Simmons or similar ?

Where did you get the R33 calipers from ?
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buccy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

Where did you get the R33 calipers from ?

I think most people ended up buying theirs from RMA Spares on the Gold Coast PH.5532 7914. They had the best price that I could find $220.
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demuire
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie: Ooooh pretty Smile New car? I've been out of the loop for a looooong time Razz Nice wheels too, pity they stick out so far... Nothing a set of bigger flares won't fix Smile

If you can't find longer LCA's, maybe get some offset RCA's? I've got longer LCA's on the Corolla, and even with adj strut tops I could only dial in about -1.5 deg camber, so I got some offset RCA's and now I've got I think what looks to be about -3 deg camber. In theory should have also helped make the bump steer a bit better, but that's too complex for me Razz

[Updated on: Tue, 04 January 2005 02:23]

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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 09:00

You should be able to sell the wheels easy enough.

What would the longer LCA's come from ? Any ideas yet ? As that would also affect the track, but with different offset wheels, it shouldn't be a problem.

What of the back wheels though, as you'll still want the 0 offset so it looks like 3 piece Simmons or similar ?

Where did you get the R33 calipers from ?


Yeah selling bling 17's to suit a Skyline shouldn't be a problem... there are Skyline ricers aplenty in these parts!

Longer LCA's are sort of a last resort. As demuire hinted, offset RCA's might be the go and it turns out ImportBitz can get me a pair for a good price. I'll give that a try in conjunction with camber bolts and see if it solves my little dilemma.

I'm going to see if +40/50 rims fit on the back of the Supra as is, and if not I'll investigate the option of *gasp* spacers. But I'm not too concerned about the rear end just yet, I'm more worried about getting my steering connected so I can drive the stupid car again!

As Buccy hinted, I bought my calipers from RMA Spares. Good price for what you get!
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Stefan
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nice work, Norbie. I'm assuming those are King springs... what rate did you end up getting?

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the coilover 'bits' cost, and are the collets welded on or just sitting ontop of the line of weld where the stock lower perch would be?
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demuire
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

I'm more worried about getting my steering connected so I can drive the stupid car again!


Steering? Pah, they're overated. Besides, aren't you the king of "steer by throttle"? Very Happy
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stefan wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 20:53

Nice work, Norbie. I'm assuming those are King springs... what rate did you end up getting?

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the coilover 'bits' cost, and are the collets welded on or just sitting ontop of the line of weld where the stock lower perch would be?

I bought the struts already converted to coilover (they used to be attached to a dorifto Chaser in Japan), and yes the collets are welded on. They were $450 complete, however the strut inserts were stuffed and the 950 lb/in springs were far too stiff to even consider using, so I bought 300 lb/in King springs and Koni yellow inserts for $950 all up. Total cost for the front end so far, including suspension, brakes and tyres, is over the $3k mark already - and this is 100% DIY! Shocked
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Tue, 04 January 2005 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norbie wrote on Tue, 04 January 2005 23:36

Total cost for the front end so far, including suspension, brakes and tyres, is over the $3k mark already - and this is 100% DIY! Shocked



Adds up pretty quick doesn't it .....
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Fri, 07 January 2005 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Any news on a possible fix Norbs ...... ?
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Fri, 07 January 2005 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I have ordered MX83 tie-rod ends, but haven't had a chance to pick them up yet... it's pretty hard when your car is half disassembled. Mad Should be able to pick them up tomorrow morning, and if it works as planned (fingers crossed) the car should be "sort of" driveable by the end of the day. Smile
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Fri, 07 January 2005 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What about the slightly positive camber ?
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Norbie
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Re: MA61 coilovers: installed! Fri, 07 January 2005 01:34 Go to previous message
Heheh, one thing at a time! I need to get the car driving so I can get it to a suspension shop, then I'll try to get the camber fixed.

John from ImportBitz is getting me a pair of offset RCA's so hopefully that will get rid of most of the camber, but if it's not enough I'll get camber bolts installed in the LCA's as well. And once all that is sorted, I'll try to get my hands on some later-model JZA80 rims for a test fit, which hopefully will get the wheels back inside the guards.

But don't worry, I'll keep you updated on my progress. Smile
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