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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sat, 19 October 2002 04:05
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Hey everyone,
Just been challenged by a friend to a dual. I have a year to prep a road registered Sprinter to take on his XB V8 Falcon. Both of us agreed only a year to prep both cars and they both have to be registered and legal. We are gonna run 1/4mile and a circuit.
So, what does everyone think? Does the Sprinter have a chance or should i hand over my money now? Any suggestions on mods needed?
Both of us are on limited budgets.
Cheers
Steve
PS - Car doesnt have to be a Sprinter, just a 4 banger. Gotta win the V8 vs 4cyl argument  (could always try my AWD Camry GT4 idea  )
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sat, 19 October 2002 09:49
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It really depends on the budgets...
If he's got serious money to spend, and the engine's a 351, I'd suggest digging in your pocket for the money.
That is, of course, unless you're running a 4AGTE or similar. 
(Perhaps a heavily modded 3SGTE...Will one of these fit in a Sprinter?)
I am referring to the 1/4 mile here. With any reasonable setup around most circuits (read tight) and relative driver skills notwithstanding, it should be a lot closer...If you have something reasonable under the bonnet, good suspension and brakes, your car should be a match for an XB 'round a track. Again, it comes down to who's got the $$ to spend.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sat, 19 October 2002 09:52
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Both manuals i guess?
Do you have to win both or one of the races?
I would probably try having the track weighted more than the drag...
What are the budgets and what are you both starting with in terms of cars?
I have a video of 2 Sprinters beating a GTR around a race track, but it may have been staged or the GTR drive may have been shit...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sat, 19 October 2002 11:24
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the GZE will smoke a 351 easy man.
I was cruising down the pacific hwy neay chatswood one day and pulled up to to a set of lights..
this XB Coupe pulles up next to me.. he is revving the crap out of it.. sounds fucking awesome and all.
anyway the green arrow goes and i like nudge forward expecting to be going.. and he takes it as a challange.. its all on!
light goes green.. 6000r dump.. spinning like crazy.. flat into 2nd.. xb is in the rear view.. into 3rd .. over 100k now
lookin infont i can see traffic.. backing off watch him fly past me..
classic standard street loser he guns it to 200ks then see's the traffics and gets meca compression lock ... lol he almost rear ended the traffic.
dont take that V8 superiority crap man.. try and take him.. sprinter + GZE with NEVO will smoke 90% of those V8 poofs
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Location:
Townsville NQ
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 01:20
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man 10g on a v8 will give him a 393 stroker some good heads a big cam, high comp pistons and some left over for a nos kit, and guess what he's going to run in the 10 sec bracket and putting out around 800hp+, if he can do the work himself. Your going to need a big ase turbo to catch him, maybe one of a ship, my money on the v8 for the 1/4, and if the tracks not to windy he going to kick your ass there to, tracksion is going to be he's biggest down fall aslong as he does'nt do a 4000rpm dump on street tyres he's got you covered, and with 5g left for susp mods it going to handle great even with all that weight,so cough up the mun know, and be more careful what you enter into.
Now if you only had 3g budget it would be a lot more interesting.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 01:39
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3SGTE, W58, Hilux LSD in a Sprinter.
If you spent the rest on the motor you can get big power out of the 3S.. in the light body sprinter I reckon enough to beat the V8.
Stock internals is good for about 400HP..
But you can purchase just about every internal forged, stroker cranks, 1000's of different cam grind you name it.
I reckon unless the V8 guy is going to have to spend big dollars to catch that setup.
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Location:
Townsville NQ
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 01:54
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well i must say i have never seen a sprinter run in the 10 sec bracket, i would like to see it if you recon it can be done.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 02:52
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There is a 1J sprinter in the US
I would have suggested that but its not a 4 then.
Impossible to run 10s with the 4A.. get close with the 3S.
http://www.suprastore.com/supra/topsecsuport.html
720HP.. for sure thats big dollars spent.. but it POSSIBLE.
an 3S with half that power in a sprinter would hammer.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 05:35
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| corolla coupe 18rgu wrote on Sun, 20 October 2002 11:54 |
well i must say i have never seen a sprinter run in the 10 sec bracket, i would like to see it if you recon it can be done.
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http://www.4age.net/fastest.htm
Dunno if they can be confirmed though...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 05:36
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Then again $$$$$'s
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Location:
Townsville NQ
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 07:19
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I think he needs to double his budget to get some of those times, they also have to be street legal to according to there bet.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 08:43
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i dunno no mate i'd say a nice healthy 8 in an xb should put shit on the 4 man you can get some really cool kits for the for 8's these days...my bro in laws xb will rip my 1J quite hard and its not a very slow machine
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 10:18
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I guess we can look at it this way...
You are starting with 1.6L and he is starting with 5.7L or 5.8L (Can't remember).
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 20 October 2002 10:36
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Quarter mile - The XB will destroy a Sprinter - Torque is what wins on the quarter ..
Unless you have a GTE or GZE boosted to the balls - and a LSD bum end on it - you wont have a chance .. sorry ..
On the track the sprinter will be a worthy compnent to have under your belt - handling wise - yours will out corner and out brake the XB - but he will take you on the straights , and out of corners
Ive tried this same challenge in my own celica - Its a heavily modified 2tb ( cam, big carb , overbore , all the goodies ), with all the bells and whisles suspension wise - and mine will rip strips off my makes worked 351 ( duel carb ,cammed ,all the good V8 stuff ) XB coupe thru corners - as long as the grade isnt too steep
on the straight - my Celica will do 180 with out much issues - mind you its basically at its peak then before the thing starts saying no more , whereas his coupes still pulling strong to 200 +
In a nutshell - Ford wins on the strip - unless you have forced indiction ( sprinters what - 17 sec stock quarter , XB v8 is about a mid 15's stock ) Theres no sunstitute for cubes and torque
yours will challenge and possible beat him on the track - providing the tracks twisty and he has no chance to stretch the v8's legs, handling braking and balance win the trophy here
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Mon, 21 October 2002 00:16
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you got no hope against a 351 XB. i beat a sprinter in my 250 XB.
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Mon, 21 October 2002 11:47
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| ToyCam Steve wrote on Sat, 19 October 2002 20:46 |
The car doesnt have to be a sprinter, so if anyone can think of a cheap 4cyl as a project car (maybe a celica?), im open to suggestions.
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Does it have to be a 4 cylinder? I know this is sacrilege on a Toyota forum, but why not turbo rotary then? Just check out what dominates the over 2 litre class in club racing.
http://www.ipransw.com.au/IPRANSW%20Points%202001. xls
If fuel economy is no object, its easy to get power out of a turbo rotor for less dollars. Series I and II RX-7's are cheap too.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Mon, 21 October 2002 12:01
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i was thinking this
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Mon, 21 October 2002 16:02
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why not start off with something like a cheap cordia turbo or et pulsar? forced induction is the only way u will bet a 351 without big bucks
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 00:13
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As much as I dislike them, try a Mitsubishi Starion instead of one of those pole magnets. Wouldn't take much to get a bit of grunt out of em.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 00:40
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 .......Sabotage........
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 00:43
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If it doesnt have to be a 4 cylinder just get a Holden with a 350 chev. i dont like them but they are a lot faster than a xb. Go for a HQ 1 tonner, they are pretty light and they arent to bad around corners but you will definetly beat da XB
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 02:28
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An HQ 1 Tonner is NOT light. Took six of us to push my brothers onto the trailer when he blew his gearbox. Thought we were doing well when it started rolling until we looked up and saw the back of the commodore tow car a foot off the ground and rolling forward.......
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 02:40
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oops!
its light compared to an XB tho.
no where near as tough looking tho
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 02:44
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doesnt matter what it looks like as long as it goes fast
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 11:13
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It's a 4cyl vs 8cyl bet
What about turboing the 2.6litre Astrom from a early magna/sigma? What car to chuck this in is still a problem, maybe a ke30 or something 
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 13:30
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Just chuck a 4A-GZE in an early RWD corolla, easy & cheap way to gain good results.
Shouldn't be too hard to perform, & you'll have time to play around with it & get some fat tyres. You'll toast him.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Tue, 22 October 2002 14:44
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what part of the 4agze conversion is cheap???  your better finding a light 4 cyclinder which already has a turbo
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Wed, 23 October 2002 11:40
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Been talking to my friend and the rules have changed a tiny bit. He is only going to run something like a 308 in the XB and i am allowed to run a rotary. Reckon this evens the field out a bit??
The track we would use would be Wakefield Park, goulburn. As for my car, i want to stay with rear wheel drive. Drove a mates Cordia GSR and it was a shocker. Torque steer and wheelspin on demand and sometimes not on demand. not a flash handler either.
hmmm, 13B turbo in a sprinter....
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Thu, 24 October 2002 08:49
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Aroung 4 Gs for a ZE conversion is pretty bloody good value for money.......
Did we ever hear a budget, besides "putting 10-15g into it"?
4 grand over a year isn't too bad.
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Location:
Townsville NQ
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Thu, 24 October 2002 09:33
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Com on guys he has 10g+ to spend on a xb 351, you are going to need 25g+ on any four cyl to run in the 10 sec bracket, and they do handle not to bad either, the 13b is about the closest thing that might get it, but i know a guy who spent 30g on a 808 coupe 13b an it best time was 11.10. He not really thinking of putting a holden motor in a ford is he, still there are a few 308s running 10s aswell
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Thu, 24 October 2002 11:29
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Are you going to drive your own cars on the track? or are you going to get a trusted driver to drive both cars? Great handling doesn't make a car quick either - it just makes it easier to extract the best out of the available grip. ie. A good driver will be quicker in a poorer handling car that has more grip.
So is it a draw if the XB wins the quarter and the 4cyl/rotor wins at the track?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 00:05
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as said before - the only way a sprinter/corolla/celica with a 4 pot will win is by forced induction .
rotors * may * give it the edge on the track , but still youd need the extra huffer to get the horsepower gain for the track or strip
10K would get a 3sgte into a celica ( ta22 or ra23/28) by estimates , and since these are about what , 500 kg lighter than a gt4 thats they originate from they would go like the clappers
theres one on this list (ta22, 3sgte) thats running close to 10 sec i believe - though the name i cant think of ..
how much is your budget , what car are you wanting to use , and where do you want to win , track , strip , or both ???
my oppinion , ta22 or ra28 celica , 3sgte conversion , strong diff , aftermarket management and increased boost - the XB would have a real REAL strong compeditor , Plus you will have a car thats super cool , and drives like a demon
stuart
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 07:49
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Yeah, my mistake. Friends running a 302 in the XB, no way he would put a holden motor in it.
Well, like i've said, we both have a budget of around 15000 over the next year.
We will use wakefield park in Goulburn, and we will be driving our own cars, That's half the fun.
Our driving records something like this:
Me:
Go-karting since i was 12
driven since about 8
Drive regurlarly and learnt to drive in a 98' Pulsar SSS and a 00' Magna Sports
Currently driving 90 Camry. lowered, wheels, exhaust, filter.
caught speeding twice, 10k over on my L's, 30k over just recently
Doing advanced driving course at the end of this year.
Him:
Driving since he could reach the pedals (lives in the country)
no driving offences
drives a 96 liberty
Thats bout all i know bout him
Why is it illegal to put a Turbo rotary in sprinter?
I would prefer to drive a sprinter, but wouldn't mind celica's or anything. I would probably set the car up for track, as there is a lot more skill involved, be better to win that.
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 08:44
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I think before you go spending all your money buying/building a car to beat your mate in you need to consider what you want out of your car.
Its all well and good spending 15g's on a car and beating your mate, but you may be left with a rotary powered car when your a 4 Cylinder Fan.
Is this what you want
and if it isn't what you want you will loose money when you sell it.
I think most people in this forum would agree, you don't just buy or build a car to win a race in. Otherwise we'd all be Ferrari fans or something ridiculous like that. Being a Toyota fan isn't all about building them to win races, you have to enjoy the car you own
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 09:45
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A 302 in a xb isn't that great it won't be running 10's.
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 09:58
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| Quote: |
Why is it illegal to put a Turbo rotary in sprinter?
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Check out this RTA doc. It has limits on "Replacement Engines".
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/vsi06.pdf
To be more specific, the 13BT exceeds the maximum capacity. The AE86 is 930kg according to the RTA so the largest turbo engine is 2.5 x 930 = 2325cc. A 13B is about 1300cc x 2 because its a rotor and that makes it a 2.6 litre which is too big to be registered.
My AE86 weighed 1035kg on a weighbridge, but even that isn't enough to get it legal.
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 10:05
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Can you put heavier mage and stuff on it to get it heavier? what about a 12A how big is this engine?
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 10:07
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that was supposed to say magS
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 10:15
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Unfortunately not - the RTA takes the weight of the vehicle with the largest engine option but without options such as air con, tow bar etc. So I'd assume wheels and subwoofers  would not be considered. 12A turbo is close to 1200cc which is borderline (2325cc vs. 2400cc if I use 1200cc). The exact displacement of a 12A might get you under 2325cc.
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Location:
Melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 14:01
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this displacement/weight ratio only applies in nsw and qld right?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 16:14
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| ToyCam Steve wrote on Sat, 19 October 2002 20:16 |
Money is tight from both of us, I'd be putting 10-15g into my car.
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these sentences seem to heavily contrict each other. i wish my tight budget involved over 10k.
anyway have you given any thought of buying a prebuild car? there are plenty of tuff cars in the trader which you could build at that price.
spend wisely on your car and you should have plenty of $$$ to play with
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Fri, 25 October 2002 16:15
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stick a 4agze in the sprinter it only cost me 3k and i blew away a VT clubsport , i was running standard boost and a front mount intercooler. If you have 15k to spend you could do alot more work on the engine just leave enough for the drivline components. Trust me, Aus spec diffs and 140kw motors do not get along very well. if you kept it supercharged and wound the boost up you would get the same sort of power delivery as a V8 as the tourque arrives very early. With a good set of wheels/tyres and some adjustable suspension he wouldn't stand a chance.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 27 October 2002 19:31
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I wish my brother was only putting a 302 into his XA Coupe. Unfortunately he's just swapped the 351 from his coupe into his XY ute to replace the 302 it came with (despite the GT351 markings) and to make room for his 600ci to go into the coupe.
I dont like the chances of my cressida beating him down the 1/4 once thats done, but maybe a 100-0 test instead
10k on a car just to beat your mate is a bit much. You must want to beat him pretty bad to spend that much to do it, cuz that's over 200 cartons of crown lager (400 if you count the 10k each) that you could be drinking together instead over the year
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Location:
AdElAiDe
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sprinter VS XB Falcon - Bet
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Sun, 27 October 2002 23:02
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yaeh it does seem a bit much for just one race. In the trading post it has a section Rally, race and street cars, some of these cars it has the times for a quarter mile, most of them about 10 secs
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