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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 06 January 2005 11:33
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Is there an easy way to replace a welsh plug? Everywhere I've looked on the net seems to just say "replace the welsh plugs" and the engine manual mentions nothing about it.
Also, I'd very much like to leave the engine sealed when doing this.
I was thinking of sticking something through the welsh plug and then pulling the welsh plug out from the outside, but I'm worried about debri ending up inside the engine.
The engine in question is a 3sgte with unknown history, but seems in good nick. I have already replaced the front and rear main and I'm starting to put everything back together at the moment. I'm pretty sure I should replace the welsh plugs but I'm always keen to listen to people in the know to tell me otherwise.
Thanks in advance,
Dave
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 06 January 2005 11:49
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hit the very top of the welch plug with a screwdriver and hammer such that you push/rotate it into the water gallery of the block. at the same time the bottom of the welch plug will rotate out of the hole. be careful, and dont bash the top of the plug to violently, and accidentally knock the whole thing into a water gallery.
once rotated, get some multigrips onto the outwards rotated part, and pull the sucker out
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 06 January 2005 12:07
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You, my friend, are a champion. Exactly the answer I wanted to hear!
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 06 January 2005 14:14
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please don't score, nick or gouge the block.
sometimes the cyl is right behind the plug & there isn't enough room for it to rotate. even if it does go inside, they'll still come right out as long as you can get a grip on it.
good luck, you'll get it out.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 06 January 2005 17:12
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Careful that you dont put the new ones in too far - they can block water passeges.
I would reccomend that you pick up a book on engine reconditioning (you can get magazine type books about it quite cheaply).
Even if you cant find one for a modern turbo engine you could always grab one for a chev V8 or something - most of the principals are the same (the clearances however may not be but they should be in the workshop manual for the engine or you could find them online).
If you are going to the trouble of replacing the welch plugs you might want to consider a freshen up of the engine:
Get the block cleaned and inspected
Align hone the bores
Hone the main journals
Linish the crank
Replace the main bearings
Get some decent (ARP) rod bolts
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 06 January 2005 22:49
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Ed got the removal bit pretty much spot on!
To install the new ones find a socket which will fit just inside the welshy and use the socket to tap the new welsh plug into place.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 09:57
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yeah dragging up an old one...
when ed mentions hitting the top of the plug with a screwdriver, does it mean to hit the lip of the welsh plug or at the top of the depressed part of the plug (if you know what i mean).
also when putting the plugs back in, is it ok to just use the plug as an interference fit to the block or should some sort of sealant be used just for good measure?
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 10:25
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i used a hardening sealant when i last replaced some welsh plug. Stag or something i think it was.
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 10:45
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use metal epoxy or araldyte when you install the plug again
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 11:11
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| Super Jamie wrote on Sun, 17 April 2005 20:15 |
use metal epoxy or araldyte when you install the plug again
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and use brass plugs if you can get them, should never have to replace them again
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On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 11:14
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if you're using welsch plugs in a high performance application and you keep popping them for some reason, there exist welsch plugs with a thread on them, and you have the block/head/whatever modified to take the thread and you wind the plug in to press fit, which hopefully holds it in better. you can also weld a plug in if it's likely to blow (common trick for the back of K motor bigport heads, which have a welsch plug)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 12:14
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wait for the day you see someone has installed one backwards... I was most impressed looks like thay filed the edges to a taper!
and yes brass ones look grouse in a freshly painted block when thay are polished up 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 12:20
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what about the method to get them out though?
where do i hit the welsh plug from to minimise damage to the block?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 12:47
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stag is the stuff to put them in with.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 12:57
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you wont damage the block at all. hit the welsch plug on the outskirts of the actual plug, not the lip, not the centre. A cold chisel is preferable if you have one. (the larger surface area wont punch through the copper - a good thing!) Of the dozens of welsch plugs ive done, this has always worked a treat
best of luck
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 13:15
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Stag is the stuff. Good for any sealing of the type. Good thing is if you do gouge it (don't gouge it!) it fills small areas. Ed, never installed them without it. Araldite would be attrocious if you had to remove them again.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 13:28
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cheers guys i will give it a shot on tuesdee and see how i go.
now this stag:
other than turning up all lonely like to the automotive store by myself, would i be finding it at said store. ie. sprint, superuseless, autopro, repco etc.
or i could always go to the alps and look for one there.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 13:32
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repco stock it. $15 a big tube
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 14:10
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Get it on your fingers and it's a bitch, unless it dries. Then it's a bastard. Have some metho (i think) to clean up.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 22:52
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ok guys what the hell is a welsh plug , 
lolllll
and what is its purpose in an engine
cheers
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 23:40
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Welsh plug = Expansion plug = Freeze plug
The brass coloured things (one per cyl) shown on the right hand 3 cyls of this engine.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 23:47
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SO WHAT EXACTLY DO THESE THING DO IN THE ENGINE . do they help in easier cleaning of the internals ??????? no idea
but i know now that ive seen these before, but never knew what they were lollllll
thanks for the pic toobs
cheers
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 23:50
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lollll and u beat me to my reply
so its actually part of the casting proscess cool
i was thinking it had sometyhing to do with cleaning the insides of the engines without ripping the engine into bits when i seen the pictiure lolllll
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Sun, 17 April 2005 23:50
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Is some sort of sealant necessary, or just a precaution.
I've got that sunken feeling in my guts at the moment.
I replaced all 8 welsh plugs and didn't use any sealant 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 00:22
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You shouldn't need sealant when changing your welsh plugs.
Maybe a little hylomar spray if you want to be extra careful.
Although they are most commonly referred to as "welsh plugs" in Australia the name Freeze / Expansion plug makes more sense as that is why they are there... to minimise the major damage that would be caused when your coolant freezes.
If your coolant freezes the little buggers just pop right out... then you can defrost your engine and just pop them back in again.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 00:27
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phew, that's a relief!
I've done enough of the hokey pokey with my engine over the last couple of months, really didn't want to have to pull it out again.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 01:04
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| davedave wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 09:50 |
Is some sort of sealant necessary, or just a precaution.
I've got that sunken feeling in my guts at the moment.
I replaced all 8 welsh plugs and didn't use any sealant
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Sun, 17 April 2005 22:56 |
installed properly they shouldnt require any bonding agent whatsoever
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 01:25
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We'll soon know how expert my socket tapping welsh plug skills are  , hopefully get the little fella started this weekend.
Is it wrong to cry over leaking welsh plugs? 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 01:42
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I think the main things to take note of are:
1. Make sure you don't damage the plug hole when you are bashing the plugs out.
2. Make sure the plug hole isn't damaged... if it is you may have to hone it out.
3. Make that you install the plug straight.
4. Make sure you don't push the plug into the water gallery.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 05:40
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| davedave wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 10:55 |
Is it wrong to cry over leaking welsh plugs?
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No it isn't wrong especially if it is the rear plug and you have put it all back together including gearbox and put it back in the car. one of the more horrible feelings out there.
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Mon, 18 April 2005 14:15
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also called "core plug", and is the most accurate description.
i don't think any were ever purposely designed for freeze protection in automotive use.
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 09:10
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Just a tip for idiots like me, i used a socket that was a snug fit into the plug, and here were the results:
I managed to get the socket out luckily
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 09:25
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haha looks like something id do
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Location:
northern beaches
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 14:00
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Welsh plugs have also a use in Europe and countries that have sub zero temperature as I believe...if the coolant freezes in the block, instead of cracking the cast iron block due to expansion the welsh plug will pop out first due to lower resistance of force...
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 18:25
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| Toobs wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 10:22 |
Although they are most commonly referred to as "welsh plugs" in Australia the name Freeze / Expansion plug makes more sense as that is why they are there... to minimise the major damage that would be caused when your coolant freezes.
If your coolant freezes the little buggers just pop right out... then you can defrost your engine and just pop them back in again.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: How do you replace a welsh plug?
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Thu, 18 August 2005 23:49
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u can also stick a welsch plug in the freezer before u try to tap it into the block, which hopefully makes the process a little easier on bashing with a big f#@$ing hammer 
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