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Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Tue, 11 January 2005 06:40

Alrighty now then guys... I've done a search, and I bottomed out... I'm wondering if anyone could explain to me HOW the ECU in certain Toyota cars, controls the Auto box? Main thing I want to know, when selecting a gear, does it hold a current to the solenoid or just "Hit" it with a 12V and then stop? What things does the ECU look at when choosing gears? RPM, TPS, VSS? I just want to know HOW it DECIDES on a gear (I have a fair idea) and how it makes the gearbox shift (I have not much clue really cept it does it with solenoids) [Report message to a moderator]

HighRolla
Forums Junkie

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Tue, 11 January 2005 07:30

http://www.autoshop101.com/autoshop15.html check the above out. [Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Tue, 11 January 2005 07:37

HighRolla wrote on Tue, 11 January 2005 18:30

http://www.autoshop101.com/autoshop15.html

check the above out.

Thanks heaps for that link, has heaps of stuff there...
Reading now...

[Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Tue, 11 January 2005 10:11

Well I had a read through on that site... Seems pretty simple how they are controlling it, with a few variables (Temp, VSS, RPM, TPS) and a couple of "fail safes" and then a "If everything goes pear shaped" back up... (If the whole electrics die... You can still drive... ) So yeah... That was really helpful that stuff... Just need to find out some of the other info like duty cycle and frequency the solenoids are pulsed at... [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
Forums Junkie

Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Tue, 11 January 2005 11:42

im pretty sure the soleniods are just on or off theres 3 soleniods a b and lock up soleniod by hold a or b or both or none i determines what gear the lock up solenoid locks torque converter when in overdrive the ecu takes into account alot of things so tryin to replicate them would be a pain i do know of aftermarket ecus that are just for the auto like fittin a microtech but to the auto and not the engine and are fully programmable [Report message to a moderator]

Toycrash
Regular

Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Tue, 11 January 2005 14:26

That link talks about A340E, A340H, A540E and A540H trannies, but what is 03-70LE ??? I've got such tranny and cant find anything about it Only what i know it that it has been after 1G-G engine. Aisin-warner model no. 03-70LE licence 3500 2A200 serial no. 84AM 01276 That what the plate says Edit: found makings from dismantler.. GX61 But not much info awailable about MKII [Updated on: Tue, 11 January 2005 15:35] [Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Thu, 13 January 2005 04:47

sideshow wrote on Tue, 11 January 2005 22:42

im pretty sure the soleniods are just on or off

theres 3 soleniods

a b and lock up soleniod

by hold a or b or both or none i determines what gear

the lock up solenoid locks torque converter when in overdrive

the ecu takes into account alot of things so tryin to replicate them would be a pain

i do know of aftermarket ecus that are just for the auto

like fittin a microtech but to the auto and not the engine

and are fully programmable

Replicating them is all in the logic... Hence the research now...
Am researching to make an aftermarket ATC (Auto transmission Controller), to build them up isn't heaps expensive... The hardest part is to find out all the info to build up the logic behind... Someone had to do it before us to get the AT to work...

What I mainly need to know...
What current is required through the specific solenoids and for how long (I keep getting told the 4L60E *Holden T700* runs at 60% Duty cycle, but duty cycle to what?)

Thanks people...

[Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
Forums Junkie

Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Thu, 13 January 2005 04:54

well 100% duty is fully on your best bet is to get a toyota with auto tranny get an oscilloscope and start testing its much easier to buy one hehe atleast that way u can have a laptop with all the adjustmnets infront of you [Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Thu, 13 January 2005 05:03

sideshow wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 15:54

well 100% duty is fully on

your best bet is to get a toyota with auto tranny

get an oscilloscope and start testing

its much easier to buy one hehe

atleast that way u can have a laptop with all the adjustmnets infront of you

Buy one? Buy a Toyota with auto box? Or a shift controller?

The reason I am doing the research for the shift controller is to build one for a company I work for... It is a project of mine... For the price of parts etc, the ones I have seen are way over priced (I've seen some companys selling for $2500, and since our company is in the modified car pool, why not help out the guys with autos...)

As for the oscilloscope... A decent one is worth 1G... Not wanting to spend that sorta money on one...
Maybe if I can get someones car to test when I'm in sydney might be able to arrange to get it done at work...

As for the duty cycle... I know that the 100% is fully on, 0% is half on, 25% 1/4 on etc... But I want to know, is it the duty cycle of the engine, or of the gearbox input shaft, or of what?

[Report message to a moderator]

CrUZsida
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods

Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Thu, 13 January 2005 05:14

Toycrash wrote on Tue, 11 January 2005 22:26

That link talks about A340E, A340H, A540E and A540H trannies, but what is 03-70LE ???
I've got such tranny and cant find anything about it Sad

Only what i know it that it has been after 1G-G engine.

Aisin-warner model no. 03-70LE licence 3500 2A200
serial no. 84AM 01276
That what the plate says Wink

Edit: found makings from dismantler.. GX61 But not much info awailable about MKII

I think the 03-70LE is the A43DE, or A43DL found in early to mid 80's RWDs Toyota's.

Its the predesscor to the A34xx series.

[Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
Forums Junkie

Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Thu, 13 January 2005 06:36

what you are askin i think that no one here will have doine any research on in the past so best bet is to get a toyota vehicle with an auto tranny say a cressida then do some tests you can get oscilloscopes from 300 bucks the people who sell the fully programmable tranny controllers had to do it the hard way so i doubt you will find much info plus the best info is to road test the car and take measurements this is not something that can be done over a weekend the auto ecu has many inputs and outputs to work as a fully automatic gbox if you want to make it manual shift then its easier but this information is hard to find and i would recon anyone who has it will not give it out the reason they are worth 2500 bucks is the months and months of testing they did when it comes to solenoids i think its jsut a straight 12v to trigger them but i know on a 1uz v8 2 are pos triggered and 2 are neg triggered [Updated on: Thu, 13 January 2005 06:41] [Report message to a moderator]

Toycrash
Regular

Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Thu, 13 January 2005 07:05

Quote:

I think the 03-70LE is the A43DE, or A43DL found in early to mid 80's RWDs Toyota's.

Its the predesscor to the A34xx series.

I found some hint, that it might be A42DE?
Anyhow, point is that does it have same computer and same type solenoids.

as for A34XX two solenoids drive gears at "D" and pretty easy to use pushbuttons + and - gearshifts. By using only solenoid wirings and leave ecu control line pressures etc.

+/- counter and couple logic ports handle that job nicelly Wink

on page15 in #1 pdf you can see the operating order for each gear

when you get 00,01,10,11 from up/down counter you just use ports to convert signals to suite gear order. 1st=01 2nd=11 3rd=01 and 4th=00

conversion made like this: (counter missing)http://koti.phnet.fi/crash/electrical/looranohjaus ta1.jpg

[Updated on: Thu, 13 January 2005 07:06]

[Report message to a moderator]

CrUZsida
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods

Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Thu, 13 January 2005 07:11

The A42DE will be the same as an A43DE with different ratios. The D means it has overdrive, and the E means it is electronically controlled, ie, it has its on ECU. The A43DL is not electronically controlled and is usually found behind 5me's. [Report message to a moderator]

Toycrash
Regular

Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Thu, 13 January 2005 08:04

Mkay. then mine is A4XXE Now we need to know does it run with same computer as A340E is... [Report message to a moderator]

MS-75
Regular

Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Thu, 13 January 2005 23:04

Grab yourself any of the toyota workshop manuals and all of the wiring diagrams, hysteresis graphs and diagnostic explanations are in there. From there its pretty simple to determine your inputs and shift paramters (all the required numbers are there for fault diagnosis-so you can compile all the required shift point tables). The trick will then be to construct the box to drive it and write the program. A gameboy would probably be a good cheap basis to work from..... Maybe you could use a commonly available trans computer and then do a programmable interceptor unit-that behaves similar to a unichip unit? Sean [Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Fri, 14 January 2005 03:45

MS-75 wrote on Fri, 14 January 2005 10:04

Grab yourself any of the toyota workshop manuals and all of the wiring diagrams, hysteresis graphs and diagnostic explanations are in there. From there its pretty simple to determine your inputs and shift paramters (all the required numbers are there for fault diagnosis-so you can compile all the required shift point tables). The trick will then be to construct the box to drive it and write the program. A gameboy would probably be a good cheap basis to work from.....

Maybe you could use a commonly available trans computer and then do a programmable interceptor unit-that behaves similar to a unichip unit?

Sean

Hey Sean...

Thanks for the idea on grabbing the toyota manuals... A friend is a Toyota mechanic... Forgot about that...

As for making an interceptor... I don't like that idea really... I've seen people have them, and they ended up with problems at certain conditions. I already have the "Box" made up, I just need to get my logic sorted, make it into a C program, and then write the program to talk to a laptop... So the expensive part is done...
I am really against piggy back chips as well... I don't like them, but the main reason people go for piggy backs is because of the price of a new ECU, and because of this automatic problem as well... Both will soon change (Cheap, but really flexible ECU coming out soon, and this ATC being made)

Thanks Again

Matt

[Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Sun, 16 January 2005 00:42

Alrighty now then... I've done a bit of a search... Couldn't find required thing... Downloaded the electrical diagrams for the MA70 7MGTE and GE... They had the ECT listed on a certain page... But those pages where missing... SO does anyone have the Wiring diagram, specifically for the MA70 7M-gte or GE auto box? [Report message to a moderator]

thechuckster
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Sun, 16 January 2005 01:15

wiring diagram? start reading form here: http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/at/AT_0 21.html you'll have to match the purpose of wires to actual colour coding of the loom - but that's an easy job - the preceeding pages of the TSRM explain how the box works, http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/at/AT_0 29.html has the pin-outs for the trans ECU [Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Sun, 16 January 2005 03:07

thechuckster wrote on Sun, 16 January 2005 12:15

wiring diagram?

start reading form here:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/at/AT_0 21.html
you'll have to match the purpose of wires to actual colour coding of the loom - but that's an easy job - the preceeding pages of the TSRM explain how the box works,

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/at/AT_0 29.html has the pin-outs for the trans ECU

Thanks for those...

Helps heaps...
Even found the Shift schedules and a couple of other things...

Still trying to work out what a couple of things are on the diagram (L1, L2, L3, OD)
They are cables connected to the ECU and ECT... Hmm... Still thinking...

[Report message to a moderator]

thechuckster
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...

Sun, 16 January 2005 03:33

Kyosho wrote on Sun, 16 January 2005 13:07

Still trying to work out what a couple of things are on the diagram (L1, L2, L3, OD)
They are cables connected to the ECU and ECT... Hmm... Still thinking...

L1,2,3 pull sensor data from the ECU - my undestanding is that it need RPM and throttle position - the wire coming straight from the TPS to the ECU and Trans ECU would only indicate if throttle closed. You might want to look at the 7mgte wiring diagram, note down the acronyms used agains't thos poinout and then search for the list of common acronyms used in toyota ECUs - is on autoshop somewhere i think.

OD is overdrive- note: must be engaged above a present speed limit. i think it locks the torque convertor up.

btw: kDog sells a box that runs your A3xx autobox as a manualized auto - shifter is used to select PRND, two switches are then used to change up from 1 to 4.

his info page on bigpond appears to be up, but you'd have to contact him to see if the hardware is still available for sale:
http://users.bigpond.com/K_Dog/engconversion/FAQ.h tm

i think this car runs a manualised auto-transmission setup:
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=53574&rid=2087&S=87c79e6c965b1baecfe6331 81d0c0619&pl_view=&start=0#msg_491206

cheers, charles.

[Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Sun, 16 January 2005 03:56

Ahh thanks Charles.... I'll chase that guy up... See if I can get any info from him... I did notice on the wiring diagram, the only sensor the ECT ECU gets is Idle switch, and the VSS 1 and 2... That leaves RPM, TPS, and something else... I'll check the rest of my notes... I can't think of what the extra sensor might be... Hmm... Because the PWR button is straight to the ECT ECU... SO can't be that... I'll check my 7M-GTE diagrams now... [Report message to a moderator]

Kyosho
Regular

Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004

Re: Electronic Auto Gearboxes...	Sun, 16 January 2005 04:03

I worked out the third sensor as my diagrams where opening... It's the engine temp sensor... When below a set temp, the engine WONT engange OD... [Report message to a moderator]

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