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ke382TG
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Registered:
May 2002
4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 05:13 Go to next message
Ok people, there have been a few clutch threads for the 4AGTE none of which have been particularly useful, other than to note that a lot of people have problems getting something to hold.

Now when you order a clutch for something like this most places will say that a simple heavy duty setup will be fine. This is crap once you get over the 140rwkw mark or so.

So to see what the minimum is that people can get away with post your details here like this:

4AGTE power @ wheels (approximate): 170rwkw+

Clutch diameter : 200mm

Friction plate : 5 puck brass button solid centre

Pressure plate : custom remanufactured item meant to have substantially more clamp load than a "heavy duty" off the shelf item, actual clamp load unknown.

Use : mainly street driving (not a daily driver though), a few trips to the drag strip, some motorkhana etc.

Comments : the first time this clutch was fitted it was slipping immediately, it was removed and sent back for increased clamping pressure, upon return it was refitted and still slipped but was a slight improvement, it was sent back again. Third time lucky, it lasted about 9000km with some slippage noticed under harsh conditions eg dragstrip in 3rd and 4th, and dyno runs. At about the 9000km mark it died. Action at the clutch pedal remained light both time the clamp load was increased. Clutch builder was told of approximate engine power and said the clutch would be built accordingly.

The current clutch

Clutch Diameter: 200mm

Friction Plate: Exedy 4 puck sprung centre

Pressure Plate: Custom remanufactured pressure plate 1750lbs clamping pressure

Use: mainly street driving, a few trips to the drag strip, some motorkhana.

Comments: Initially felt more "bitey" than the last clutch, very light at the clutch pedal, can't hold under load in 3rd and 4th when driven hard. Will be sent back for uprating of clamp load, the friction material seems quite good, just needs more clamping pressure.

Simply cut and paste the headings below into your post and fill them in. This might help people when they go to order a new clutch as they will know what the minimum is that they require.

I would love to fit a larger diameter clutch but my dellow housing didn't even fit the 200mm setup initially! So nothing larger is going to fit unfortunately.

The curse of the 4AGTE seems to be the pissy little clutch that some of us are forced to use.......

Your Clutch details (cut and paste then fill in)

4AGTE power @ wheels (approximate only):

Clutch Diameter:

Friction Plate/Brand:

Pressure Plate/Brand:

Use:

Comments:
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THE WITZL
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July 2002
 
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
methinks your option is this:

# Niteparts bellhousing
# Late model (LSD) 4A-GZE flywheel @ 230mm (yes, there are two types, 225 and 230mm).
# Suitable clutch setup from NPC in brisbane - he da man!

That 25-30mm is a SERIOUS amount of frictional force you are missing out on here! 200mm is TINY for a clutch behind your car IMHO.... i think with such a small clutch you are stuck with having it slip.

Of course this is just my thoughts, and based on not a massive amount of fact.
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ke382TG
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 05:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Me thinks you are partly right (very right if I was starting from scratch Very Happy) , but given my pedal has uber light action at the moment I think (if possible) I can afford to go up in clamping pressure a considerable amount more.

My brother just fitted a similar setup to mine but used a 215mm diameter clutch and 2500lbs clamping pressure. That thing appears to hold damn well but is very "heavy" at the pedal.

I am prepared to deal with a heavy pedal if it means a clutch that clamps.

I have heard of NPC, and I have also heard they will soon be releasing a custom flywheel clutch package that will hold uber power Very Happy

mo money, mo money!

I would love to go with the 230mm setup mmmmmm nice!

There are quite a few people in the same boat as me so the gathering of this info will be useful for many.

Thanks for your input WITZL

[Updated on: Wed, 12 January 2005 05:42]

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Sprinter-Saurus
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hey Witzl do you know how much the Niteparts bellhousing goes for by any chance? the Niteparts website doesnt seem to want to come up?! Confused
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BigWorm
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
4AGTE power @ wheels (approximate only): 180kW

Clutch Diameter: 200mm

Friction Plate & pressure plate brand: PBR RPM "heaviest duty" they have off the shelf. 4 puck sprung centre (although the "springs" are actually rubber blocks) with ceramic/brass buttons, pressure plate clamping pressure unknown. Is actually listed for a Toyota Hi-Ace, as they have the 200mm diameter & same g'box spline as W5*.

Use: Street only so far, but eventually I'll make it to the drags.

Comments: When first fitted & tuned was slipping at peak torque & power, I drove it for a few weeks on low boost with no problem, & after ringing half a dozen or so clutch places was advised that slipping was a common thing with brand new button clutches that hadn't been bedded in. After some testing of my own at high boost (24psi or so) and a second dyno tune, found to be fine, no slipping at all, and it's put up with some VERY harsh street use.
I'm very happy with it so far, & would be interested to hear if any one else has any experience with the same clutch.
Only cost around $300 from Pittwater B & C when they still sponsored us.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 January 2005 08:07]

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TE72_Turbo
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
4AGTE power @ wheels 180kw (approximate only):

Clutch Diameter: 200mm

Friction Plate/Brand: 4 puck sprung cerametallic sourced from Western Clutch & Brake

Pressure Plate/Brand: Daikin/Exedy heavy duty

Use: Street/Drags

Comments: This is my third clutch setup, previous 2 were used with a T50 box, and were organic friction material, but with 20rwkw less. First one lasted approx 7000km, second one was removed only to replace the clutch plate when I changed to a W55 box, and was not slipping (exedy organic). Now this 4 puck clutch started slipping after less than 2000km. Seems fine in gear, but cant handle fast changes between gears without slipping.

NEED A BIGGER DIAMETER!!

Bigworm: So how much fun are you having now that your 4A is boosted? All going well?

Cheers
Phil
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TE72_Turbo
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
By the way, Niteparts are a pain in the ass to contact, and don't seem to want to commit to freighting bellhousings to Australia. They would have had plenty of sales by now if they did. Maybe they just get enough business out of the local market in NZ. Smile
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fatmr2
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mine makes 177.8kwatw

I got the bigger flywheel (225mm i think) with an excedy brass button clutch with a sprung center.

Its only a little more noticable than standard and it handles the power just fine.
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mrshin
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've posted about this before. I had quite a bit of trouble getting clutches to hold at first, gave up on the 200mm ones and didn't really like the GZE pressure plate design, so I got a custom flywheel, 225mm clutch, normal full face plate and 3800lbs of clamping. Used to work alright with 150 at the wheels, but I'll see when I get it going again soon with a whole lot more.
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BigWorm
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phil, you couldn't wipe the smile of my dial! Very Happy

It went in for a retune on monday & before that was running pretty awful once it was run in, but now it runs like a dream, & goes like shit off a shovel. I went out with my brother in his cressida tonight, & totally drilled him on only 15psi, but traction with the standard single spinner is terrible. I'm finding I have to pedal 2nd gear with moderate to high boost, so I'm gonna have to plan a trip to pickies to start my diff upgrade.

But in the meantime, now that it's all running ok, I'm really keen to get out to WSID. According to the website they're on every wed night, so depending on how recovered I am from having my wisdom teeth out on monday, I might be up for it next week, or the week after that.
Anyone else keen?
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mrshin
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I remember mine when it only had the single spinner, there's a roundabout near here thats on a moderate uphill section of road, and it'd lay a single black one in 2nd and 3rd for about 150m every time I went through it Very Happy
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TE72_Turbo
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

I'm really keen to get out to WSID. According to the website they're on every wed night, so depending on how recovered I am from having my wisdom teeth out on monday, I might be up for it next week, or the week after that.
Anyone else keen?


Yeah, i'm keen for sure, but not during January, as my van is unregistered & off the road for some forced mods Smile This wasn't planned, sometimes shit just goes wrong when you don't want it to! A bunch of us had originally intended to head to WSID mid-late January, but its just not gonna happen Crying or Very Sad

Single spinner really sux Mad Its hard to pedal the car through 1st & 2nd just trying to get some forward motion happening. Still managed to pull several sub 5 sec 0-100 times in the T18 back then though.
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mrshin
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hey, you're making me miss my car too much....

The LSD adds it's own little surprises too - like mine used to come on boost fairly sharply, and driving uphill at 70-80km/h when it was raining, a slight squeeze on the throttle could have you heading up the road at a nice angle Very Happy Can't wait to see what it's going to do with a turbo twice the size...
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Mr Revhead
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nelson, new zealand
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October 2004
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Wed, 12 January 2005 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i can supply niteparts bellhousings
and i will freight to oz.

with that you can run a 4agze clutch, and even the stock ones hold heaps of grunt. then theres TRD...
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TE72_Turbo
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Thu, 13 January 2005 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Revhead: What's the cost?

Thanks
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THE WITZL
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Thu, 13 January 2005 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i emailled brendan at niteparts recently.. i think it was aroun $600-700?? i cant remember, and the email is at work.

I still havent properly put the boot into the pimp yet, but i know that the clutch slips pretty bad if you try to lay out any power before its fully engaged.

My current setup is a smallport (215mm from memory) sstock clutch and pressure plate. It holds once its engaged, but then again i only have 10psi so far....

... anyone got a spare stand alone ecu???? i need more boost Sad
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Mr Revhead
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nelson, new zealand
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Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Mon, 17 January 2005 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ok iv just been talking to brendon, hes keen to do something.
if i can get 5 or more orderd the price is $695nz each plus shipping.

anytakers?
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purple_people_eater_1
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Hobart, Tasmania
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June 2003
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Mon, 17 January 2005 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guys there is another a group buy happening for W5* - 4a belhousings.

if there is 5 ppl, they're $450 each.

if there is 10 ppl, they're $400 each.

shipping will be $20 anywhere in Australia.

Check out for more details:

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=56576&start=0&rid=3001&S=b4f0806bbf8 f5bcce9269babc204e1a8

I dont mean to hijack threads but it might save you guys some money.

thanks Kieran
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Mr Revhead
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nelson, new zealand
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October 2004
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Mon, 17 January 2005 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i guess it comes down to what type they want....
these ones can use the biger clutch and mount the slave cyl oneither side
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Anthony Kellam
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Registered:
July 2002
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Mon, 17 January 2005 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message

How come ppl compromise with 200mm flywheels when going 4AGTE? Wouldnt a 212 be the absolute minimum??

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ke382TG
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May 2002
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Mon, 17 January 2005 05:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

How come ppl compromise with 200mm flywheels when going 4AGTE? Wouldnt a 212 be the absolute minimum??


Don't know about other people but mine is only the 200mm item because it started life about 6 years ago as a 4AGZE running standard boost etc and then things progressed from there, more boost on the ZE with a pulley wheel, then progressed to a 4AGTE with standard ZE ECU then aftermarket ECU etc etc.

I also have an annoying situation in which the 200mm clutch didn't even fit inside my D****w bellhousing at first, the housing had to be worked on just to allow the 200mm clutch pressure plate to rotate (back in the day no one else was making bellhousings for the 4A to Wxx so choice was limited).

Hindsight is a marvelous thing, and yes some things would have been done differently if my car had it's time again (or if my wallet suddenly had many extra $$$ in it I would make some clutch changes now).

But hey, who was to know 5 or 6 years ago that the humble 4A's would be pushing out 170rwkw or more in so many cars??

One of the main aims of this post is for people who are looking into the 4AGTE to see what they will need to cope with the power they hope to make i.e. learn from other peoples experiences.

Cheers.
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monkeymajik
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February 2003
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Mon, 17 January 2005 06:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I dont have too much detailed information on mine, as I bought the car with this clutch already in it.

It is a Daiken/Exedy 4 Puck on the smaller 200mm wheel.

I havent been able to truly test it under high boost yet but it has held fine for the brief drive at 1bar and has been holding fine these past two weeks at 0.5bar.

Will update this post in a week when it comes back running 1-1.3bar.
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ke382TG
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May 2002
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Thu, 27 January 2005 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Some updates as at 27/1/05

My new pressure plate has arrived (2250 lbs clamping pressure) this is replacing my 1700 lbs pressure plate that just couldn't quite hold under certain conditions (The new setup: 2250 lbs pressure plate, 200mm 4 puck brass button sprung centre friction plate).

I think the substantial increase in clamp load should make a big difference. I will let you all know how it goes Smile

As I mentioned earlier in the thread my brother is running the 215mm clutch with approximately 2500 lbs clamping pressure and it is working really well.

We just found out that the clutch he replaced (200mm 4 puck, brass button, sprung centre) only had a clamp pressure of 1100lbs, this was not enough at all for around 200rwkw (even though the clutch manufacturer was told that it would be used with this power) they have offered a credit on the failed clutch though which is very good of them.


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Karl_skewes
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May 2002
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Sun, 30 January 2005 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
niteparts bellhousings are the way to go.
If you're making good power, doing drifting or drag racing you should be running one.

i used to run 150kW at wheels turbo bluetop, and used late model toyota standard ZE clutch, 230mm.
I never had slip problems and ran this clutch for almost a year, including a dozen drift days, and a couple drag days.
flat shifts through all gears, clutch kicks.... all in there.

For me to fit mine I took 2-3mm out in one spot where the pressure plate hits. However, mine was of an early revision.

You can probably get away with using the AW11 MR2 clutch, which is the 225 or so mm, but has a non-bulky pressure plate.

The Nite Parts bellhousing is also ribbed unlike others I've seen, and looks like genuine Toyota part. CNC drilled so the bolts all line up.


Contact Mr_Revhead for details.
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Karl_skewes
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New Zealand
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May 2002
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Sun, 30 January 2005 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oh, and also to add. (figures at the wheels)

Of the Garage Dori team:
I ran one (150kW turbo bluetop, redtop turbo never dynoed).
Matt is running one now (176kW turbo bluetop at its height, now NA with quads).
Tim is running one now (122kW supercharged bluetop)
Lance is running one now (dyno to come, 140kW+)


Tried and true. Like a hilux diff, locker, and lengthened lower arms.
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charged_ta22
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Registered:
June 2005
Re: 4AGTE clutches what is REALLY needed! Tue, 28 June 2005 18:05 Go to previous message
Hi people,

This is what i got fitted to my car, custom 224mm 4puck sprung centred & double spring pressure plate. Manufactured by RDP Racing in Thailand. I'm not so sure how much kW it can hold but in 'bhp' term it should hold 350bhp (dyno & tested).

Pretty cheap too, cost me less than BND$600/-

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