| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 02:37
|
 |
I've got a friend with a MA61 w/6MGE runnind of the 5ME ecu.
It started having a problem where when it warmed up if it stopped it wouldn't start again. this has gotten progresivly worse till now it won't start at all.
He called NRMA to have a look at it he got it going. this is the email he sent me explaining it.
| Quote: |
The NRMA guy said the injectors were staying open. He unplugged something to get it going. It was this plug near the LHF of the engine bay (so if you're looking at the engine with the bonnet open from the front of the car, it would be on the right side close to you). He said it was like an "EFI plug" or something. It came out of this box thing with other plugs in
it. That made it start, but he had to play the throttle to keep it running, and when he would stop playing the throttle, the engine would stall...
does that make any sense??
|
It sounds like me to be a relay of some sort, but I don't know which one. Couldn't be the efi relay could it? that'd cut power to the ecu.
It's at an auto electric place now, and they've installed a new ECU but no go. Anyone know what this might be?
Tim.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 04:48
|
|
If the injectors are staying open, its either a problem with the wiring, or a faulty ecu.
Injectors are -ve switched inside the ecu, so relays have nothing to do with it.
If the injectors were staying open, then it would be next to impossible to start the car (as the plugs would be covered in fuel), and if you did start it, plooms of black smoke would pour out the exhaust.
Sounds like you need to give it to an auto sparky to track down.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:08
|
|
the auto sparky has got it, he's already bought a new ecu and nothing happened.
Tim.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:09
|
|
Well then the ecu isn't the problem.
If the autosparky can't find it, get another wiring harness
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:14
|
|
...or get a new sparky...
He should be able to work it out I guess, but the pain in the ass is someones going to have to pay for the new ECU.
I doubt the sparky can return it.
Tim.
|
|
|
Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:16
|
|
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 16:09 |
Well then the ecu isn't the problem.
If the autosparky can't find it, get another wiring harness
|
Erm... If the injectors are stuck open... REPLACE THE INJECTORS!
I've seen it before that problem... One of my mums cars did it... Replaced all injectors, all good...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:17
|
|
| RA28 wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 13:14 |
...or get a new sparky...
He should be able to work it out I guess, but the pain in the ass is someones going to have to pay for the new ECU.
I doubt the sparky can return it.
Tim.
|
You shoulda jsut gotten one from here.
There must be hundreds of unwanted 5me ecu's floating around toymods.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:21
|
|
Well If I had access to the car, I woulda fixed it all my self. I haven't even seen it much. I'm in Bathurst and the car is in Sydney. It had some other things wrong with it to pass blue slip so he said don't worry about it, I'll just take it to a mechanic. Next thing I knew he had bought an ecu!
Could be the injectors I guess. Weird thing is with the nrma guy removing one of the relay's and it started fine but wouldn't idle. and when it first started playing up, it'd run and idle fine, but if it stopped it wouldn't start again till it cooled down.
Tim.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:25
|
|
| Kyosho wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 13:16 |
Erm... If the injectors are stuck open... REPLACE THE INJECTORS!
I've seen it before that problem... One of my mums cars did it... Replaced all injectors, all good...
|
The chances of all 6 injectors stuffing up for NO reason is so remote, its not funny.
If they are all stuffed, then you have to find out why.
The RAC guy could have pulled a fuse that controls the fuel pump, thus turning it over will not add a huge amount of fuel, and it will start, and idle for quite a while, but will stall when you rev it.
I don't know if the car is drivable.
|
|
|
Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:27
|
|
| RA28 wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 16:21 |
Well If I had access to the car, I woulda fixed it all my self. I haven't even seen it much. I'm in Bathurst and the car is in Sydney. It had some other things wrong with it to pass blue slip so he said don't worry about it, I'll just take it to a mechanic. Next thing I knew he had bought an ecu!
Could be the injectors I guess. Weird thing is with the nrma guy removing one of the relay's and it started fine but wouldn't idle. and when it first started playing up, it'd run and idle fine, but if it stopped it wouldn't start again till it cooled down.
Tim.
|
He unplugged something with a lot of cables going from it? In the engine bay?
It doesn't sound like a relay unless he pulled out the relay for the fuel pump...
The problem can slowly get worse and worse if they are getting jammed open, and then freeing... Maybe under heat they jsut couldn't work... Hence stalling once warm...
|
|
|
Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:31
|
|
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 16:25 |
| Kyosho wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 13:16 |
Erm... If the injectors are stuck open... REPLACE THE INJECTORS!
I've seen it before that problem... One of my mums cars did it... Replaced all injectors, all good...
|
The chances of all 6 injectors stuffing up for NO reason is so remote, its not funny.
If they are all stuffed, then you have to find out why.
The RAC guy could have pulled a fuse that controls the fuel pump, thus turning it over will not add a huge amount of fuel, and it will start, and idle for quite a while, but will stall when you rev it.
I don't know if the car is drivable.
|
My mothers dropped one injector... It got to the point where it wouldn't crank because it couldn't over come the pressure... Had to be moved by hand to get the fuel out of the cylinder... It was wierd.. Whilst you tried to crank it, it wouldn't go, rock the motor back a bit, then push it forwards by hand and all was good to spin it...
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:43
|
|
| Kyosho wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 16:27 |
He unplugged something with a lot of cables going from it? In the engine bay?
It doesn't sound like a relay unless he pulled out the relay for the fuel pump...
|
That's what I thought. He said the "plug" was from the fuse box. and then it would start but not idle. I have no idea how long they could keep it running for if they were revving it.
They never jammed open whilst it was driving though. If they were starting to jam open I thought that it would happen at least once whilst driving causing the car to run so rich it stalls? Only problem was it was hard to start when warm. once started it drove fine till we turned it off.
Tim.
|
|
|
Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 05:47
|
|
| RA28 wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 16:43 |
| Kyosho wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 16:27 |
He unplugged something with a lot of cables going from it? In the engine bay?
It doesn't sound like a relay unless he pulled out the relay for the fuel pump...
|
That's what I thought. He said the "plug" was from the fuse box. and then it would start but not idle. I have no idea how long they could keep it running for if they were revving it.
They never jammed open whilst it was driving though. If they were starting to jam open I thought that it would happen at least once whilst driving causing the car to run so rich it stalls? Only problem was it was hard to start when warm. once started it drove fine till we turned it off.
Tim.
|
By the sounds of that then, it isn't the injectors getting stuck open...
If they stuck at a certain point, they would keep pumping fuel in, therefore, at low RPM it would be rich, and at higher RPM would be lean... So performance would be hugely affected...
Do you know of a wiring diagram for this car (Or fuse box cover picture?)
Only thing I can think of, is he either pulled a relay on fuel pump, or fuse on MAP (But MAP is rarely fused...)
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 09:13
|
|
Bad earth. The ECU and/or injectors are not earthed properly, I can almost guarantee it! I had this exact same problem with my 5M-E and my 18R-GEU, and in both cases running proper earth cables from the ECU to a solid earth point on the chassis fixed the problem.
Your auto sparky = teh suck.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 09:23
|
|
from my experience, most auto sparkies = teh suck, at least when it comes to imports and conversions anyway.
Sure there are a few good ones out there, but most can only really deal with stock locally delivered cars. Which is fair enough, there's not much point them learning about JDM and other car markets because there'd be no money in it, 70% of these people will do it all themselves. But these sparkies should own up immediatly, tell you that they aren't the best for the job, recommend someone who is and not bother ham-fisting around under there.
I'll let me mate know to try the earth but I don't know how we'd go about telling the sparky, it'd be like a computer technition picking up the troubleshooting card from a new PC and reading "make sure PC is pluged in and switched on"...
the bad earth thing doesn't explain why the nrma got it going after pulling a relay/fuse/something though. apparently it started first go when he pulled whatever it was.
Tim.
[Updated on: Thu, 13 January 2005 09:42]
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 10:31
|
|
the 6MGE also came in cresidda's (and crowns ?) - i wouldn't call it an JDM engine as such - it's a common enough aus-delivered engine?
find different auto sparky and FFS get a refund/return on the ECU.
If the NRMA dude pulled the 'EFI' relay fro mteh fuse box you'd have no fuel pump and no ECU - ergo no engine start at all.
the dude might have unplugged the Aux air plug - or stuffed around with the TPS to get it running originally?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 10:40
|
|
| thechuckster wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 18:31 |
the 6MGE also came in cresidda's (and crowns ?) - i wouldn't call it an JDM engine as such - it's a common enough aus-delivered engine?
|
We never got 6MGE's over here, just 5MGE's and 5ME's.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 10:44
|
|
|
well there's a cresidda at sumner park toyo wreckers with what i thought was 6mge - they have similar cam covers to 5mge?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 10:45
|
|
|
They look almost identical to a 5MGE, only they have 3l capacity.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 10:50
|
|
my bad - must have been 5mge
i will have another look next time i want to pay too much for used parts.
however .. 5m/6m would be similar electronics? digital ECU (can run closed loop) but still with EGR?
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 10:54
|
|
|
are the 5m and 6m injectors the same impedance? could be that the new computer is over loading the injector circuit somehow?, id say the nrma guy merely pulled the efi fuse.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 11:01
|
|
5M-E/5M-GE/6M-GE injectors are all the same. I used to run a 6M-GE with a 5M-E ECU and had no issues, and many others have done the same. Something bodgy is going on with the wiring, I'd bet my left testicle. I still say bad earth! 
|
|
|
Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 11:02
|
|
| IRA11Y wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 21:54 |
are the 5m and 6m injectors the same impedance? could be that the new computer is over loading the injector circuit somehow?, id say the nrma guy merely pulled the efi fuse.
|
If he pulled EFI fuse, the car would not start... There would be nothing telling it to inject fuel or spark...
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Thu, 13 January 2005 11:22
|
|
yeah, it definently wasn't the efi fuse/main efi relay, I can't see it being the fuel pump either. If only I knew what he pulled it'd be easier to figure out.
Is there anything else up there near the fuse box in the MA61 engine bay?
What's the deal with this ecu, if the sparky bought it thinking it was the problem, and it turns out it isn't, can it be returned? Does the client have to pay for it? I think it's costing like 400 bucks or so.
Tim.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: 6mge ECU problems
|
Fri, 14 January 2005 03:10
|
|
| RA28 wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 21:22 |
yeah, it definently wasn't the efi fuse/main efi relay, I can't see it being the fuel pump either. If only I knew what he pulled it'd be easier to figure out.
Is there anything else up there near the fuse box in the MA61 engine bay?
|
right behind the fuse box is the coil & igniter
across from the fuse box on the inlet manifold is the aux air valve
| Quote: |
What's the deal with this ecu, if the sparky bought it thinking it was the problem, and it turns out it isn't, can it be returned? Does the client have to pay for it? I think it's costing like 400 bucks or so.
|
i'd be requesting a refund! nothing else would be satisfactory.
unless the dude had determined via testing that the original ECU was suspect, he/she should never have bought the replacement part in the first place.
Any advice he gave as whether the original was faulty was obviously wrong and indicates that little - if any - testing of it the original was done.
|
|
|
