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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Building an IS430
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Wed, 19 January 2005 13:58
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This post is to track the conversion of my recently acquired Lexus IS200 into an IS430. Please feel free to comment, heckle, encourage but most importantly contribute.
Many of you reading this will have already resolved many of the myriad of problems I expect to strike. If you are a commercial operation, I am also happy to share the spoils of the project with you. (PS "SHARE" means you source bits for me at reasonable prices, we swap knowledge and you gain leads for repeat business)
WHY AN IS430?
This is the car Lexus should have made. Audi make an S4, with a 4.3 litre V8 (and all wheel drive mind you) in a small A4 body, but I don't have a spare $145,000.
Toyota Team Europe and Rod Mullen Motorsport have both slotted 3UZ-FEs into an IS body so I know it fits, although I'm not holding my breath waiting for help from these organisations.
I want a car capable of running at the pointy end of Targa, even though it will never qualify. Yet it should be super reliable and easy to live with. The standard 3UZ offers smooth, tractable power, sufficient to propel a 1510KG IS200 at frightening speeds while weighing 4kg less than the original 2.0 litre 1GG, thereby retaining the sublime handling of the IS200.
Just what Lexus Australia was smoking when it opted for the 20 year old, 1GG engine (that wouldn't pull a boy-scout off your sister) over the 3S-GE in the Altezza I'll never know. Even worse was the IS300 - auto only and an underpowered and overweight 2JZ-GE lump of iron that destroyed the car's handling balance.
If I can't source a 3UZ-FE then a late model 1UZ-FE 4.0 litre with VVTi is my second choice. But a long way second.
Why don't I fit Motec, a supercharger, wild cams, throttle body ram tubes, trick extractors or other go fast bits? Because firstly it would spoil the intent of the car and secondly because I shouldn't need to. The 3S-GE would be a better transplant if I wanted an outright racing machine.
WHAT I KNOW
1. I am looking for a front cut from a 2001 onwards Toyota Celsior or Soarer (possibly also a Crown) from Japan or a Lexus GS430, LS430 or SC430 from the US. This is to extract the 3UZ-FE engine and ancillaries, including computer(s), sensors, wiring loom, radiator etc. I suspect I may also need the LSD & half shafts, front and rear brakes and tailshaft.
2. The standard 6 speed in the IS200 should last - say a good 10 minutes at least with the 3UZ. The preferred gearbox is therefore the Getrag Supra 6-speed, although this is a bit of a pig of a box to drive due to its notchiness. The Celica/Supra steel case 5 speed is an alternative (perhaps make better use of the 3UZ torque curve also) but I am open to other suggestions.
3. There are several locally made/available bell housings, clutches and lightweight flywheels available. On the flywheel front, I've been warned to avoid the locally made versions that incorporate a ring gear for the starter and to use one that retains the original Toyota auto ring gear.
4. The Torson LSD standard in the IS200 is unlikely to cope with the 3UZ, hence the option to upgrade from the donor car. This means finding a donor car with a LSD standard.
5. The standard brakes are sensational and stop the car on a dime, at least now when it takes the 1GG a good half day or so to reach terminal velocity. The brakes haven't just cooled since the last stop, they've iced over. The brake pedal is likely to get a more frequent hammering with the 3UZ and I suspect small spot fires may erupt from each corner of the car unless I upgrade.
WHAT I KNOW I DON'T KNOW
1. Will the diff & half shafts and front and rear brakes easily adapt to the standard suspension arms and/or body mounts?
2. Will the standard computer cope with the loss of its auto gearbox computer cousin? Where will it get its speed readings? What other sensors/systems need to be grafted from the donor car?
3. What diff ratio should I aim for - suck it and see I suspect?
4. Can the post-modern systems be made to work effectively? Cruise Control? ABS? Traction Control? Air Cond? etc
WHAT I DON'T KNOW THAT I DON'T KNOW
This is the really scary bit. All advice greatly appreciated.
regards
ozaristov300
External appearance before conversion:
Anticipated external appearance after conversion:
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Wed, 19 January 2005 14:21
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first of all, awesome idea, it has been thought of before, and done before but that doesnt make it any less awesome.
i have often wondered about the choice of engine myself, but i suspect budget had a lot to do with it.
i think someone in australia has already done this, searching the forum might bring something up, but it isnt exactly a widely covered topic.
here is one piece of advice i will give you that i have learned.
make sure you get a FULL front cut including everything, or just budget for an aftermarket ECU. If the auto ecu can be adapted satisfactorily then do that, if not i wouldnt even bother with the standard computer.
by "incorperate the ring gear from the auto ring gear" i take it you mean use a flywheel that has a removable ring gear? this shouldnt be a problem, it isnt only auto flexplates that have a seperate ring gear, its just welded on as opposed to shrink fitted.
good luck with it, hope you have heaps of money
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Building an IS430
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Wed, 19 January 2005 14:33
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I would like to reccomend Jim from Sideshow Performance Wiring as he provided good advice and backup after the "sale".He also was able to make the ABS and Cruise function on my Manual 1jz into Cressida conversion which is apparently quite uncommon.
Best of luck,the idea sounds like a winner.Cheers.Pete. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Wed, 19 January 2005 23:07
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| Quote: |
The preferred gearbox is therefore the Getrag Supra 6-speed, although this is a bit of a pig of a box to drive due to its notchiness. The Celica/Supra steel case 5 speed is an alternative (perhaps make better use of the 3UZ torque curve also) but I am open to other suggestions.
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The Getrag V160 6-speed is known to have excellent shift quality... why do you say it's a pig to drive? Anyway, these boxes unfortunately have an integrated bellhousing, so modifying them to fit a non-JZ engine isn't an easy task. It's by no means impossible, but don't expect it to be cheap!
The Supra 5-speed (W58 or R154) would be the easiest option since off-the-shelf bellhousings are available from CRS et al. I reckon a late-model W58 would handle the torque just fine, and it shifts quite nicely as well. It also costs about a third of the price of a V160!
As for the wiring, from what I've heard about the Altezza/IS200 electrical system you've got your work cut out for you. Definitely get an experienced professional like Sideshow to help you out here.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Wed, 19 January 2005 23:32
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dude, g et onto www.altezzaclub.org.au
i have just completed the 1JZGTE conversion in the IS200, and now its awesome! A guy on our forum, built a 1UZFE is200 for targa NZ, his nick is "Boothy" best person to speak to, as he has had the experience.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 00:23
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Once you're done, can I have it? Please?
This would be close to the ultimate street car in my mind. I've driven the IS200 and can't get it out of my head, it was the most fantastic drive I've ever had!
I think you may be forced into using an aftermarket ECU. From what I know of the late model 1UZ-FEs is that a lot of the systems are integrated into the whole thing like ABS and the transmission. If those signals are missing, then there's not a lot of happiness...
As for the brakes, does the IS200 share the same brakes as the RS200/Altezza? If so, I don't think you'll need to worry too much about them. Just get good pads.
| ozaristov300 wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 00:58 |
External appearance before conversion:
Anticipated external appearance after conversion:
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haha I love that. 
Can't wait till it's done!!!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 01:15
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Nark, same brakes, I also belive they are the same as TT Soarers and GS300's
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 01:18
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Apparently JZA80 brakes fit with little effort, and the later-model JZA80 brakes (with 4-piston front calipers) are quite large... should be more than enough for an IS200.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 07:50
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The rear end of the IS200 used by TTE and Rod Millen was upgraded using IS300 diff and axles to handle the increased power.
Ray Hall Turbochargers in QLD have done a 1JZ-GTE into IS200 conversion and he has devised an electronic interface to get all the electrics of the donor engine to work with the IS200 chassis. He is worth speaking to if you are dead serious. Don't expect this to be cheap, but it will work.
Brake upgrades are always worthwhile and yes, you can't enter Targa Tas but you can enter Targa NZ with this sort of car.
W58 gearbox will be your best and most cost effective option here.
And writing a tech article for this forum would be better again !
Good luck with it.
Mitch.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 10:10
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IS200 engine is a 1gFe... nasty little piece of work it is too! Thing is, you'd think that a small six like that might be fun to drive too... alas, it ain't.
I think the idea is tops. With enough work you'd be able to get the electrics to work eventually, might take a few late nights though! The W box would be a good choice, and if it failed, and you were suitably rich, I'd get it rebuilt with some custom innards. The V160 is a heavy bitch of a thing at any time!
Make sure you dont skimp on the exhaust either - that thing has to have the sound it deserves!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 11:14
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Gents
Thank you for your prompt and valuable replies. In response to some of your questions/comments:
1. shinybluesteel: I haven't found anybody in Australia who has done this yet, but KOFFEE-BLACK has provided a lead to a NZ conversion by Ian Booth. I have been given a similar lead from the Altezza club forum and will try to contact him.
Good advice on the complete front cut. My preference is a complete wreck and sell the leftover bits later. The electrics have scared a few people off (and possibly me soon) using the standard ECU. I have two mates who work for Toyota and who have access to all the tech manuals. I was hoping we could nut out the electricals with help from those who have "been there done that". Jim from Sideshow Performance Wiring has been recommended by Norbie and manmx83 but I'm not sure how to contact him. Any ideas?
The comment re the flywheel was poorly written. Apparently some of the locally made flywheels have machined a toothed edge directly into the flywheel for the starter, which doesn't work well compared to using the Toyota ring gear from the auto gearbox version?
Mmmm, heaps of money you say??? Although "heaps" is a relative term, at present this goes in the DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW category. My initial gut feel is $10-12K, which should drop to around $7-9K for subsequent conversions once the R&D work is out of the way. I would welcome views from those who know better.
2. Norbie: I have driven a couple of Supra Turbos and both exhibited similar gear change finesse to a "68 Bedford. Strong but crunchy. Both may have been suffering from drift depression though. I didn't know about the integrated bell housing on the V160. The W58 seems the popular choice. What is the R154 from?
Interestingly, my Aristo V300 has a 4 speed auto, compared to the 5 speed auto in the GS300. I suspect that stump pulling torque prefers fewer, stronger gears. The early Porsche turbos only had a 4 speed gearbox for similar reasons.
3. KOFFEE-BLACK: I would love to see/drive your 1JZ-GTE. (Does this make it an IS300T!?) In what state can I find you (other than euphoric!). I've just registered at www.altezzaclub.org.au but haven't posted much yet.
4. Nark: Can I think about your request for a minute NO! See above re integrating electro-tri-modulators.
What are "good pads" and where do I find them? I set fire to the brakes in my AE82 Twin Cam 16 at a Sandown club day some years back. Excellent amusement for the track marshals but no fun from where I was sitting.
5. Norbie: I need brakes that are big, light weight AND work on the road but don't know if the Supra brakes fit this definition or not. I hear the Celsior/LS400/LS430 brakes might be the go.
6. ra23celica: Does the IS300 come standard with LSD and if so, which type (Torson or clutches)? I was thinking of using the diff from the donor car as it's probably going to be a good match for the engine, assuming it's a slippery.
I am dead serious so how do I get in touch with Ray Hall Turbochargers? They aren't listed at whitepages.com.au.
Re the tech article, I think Volume 1 is now under construction with the help of the collaborative gents on this post.
7. mrshin: Correct, not 1GG. I think the "F" in 1G-Fe stands for FEEBLE. I agree the exhaust will be critical. I would prefer to use the standard manifolds if they fit. My personal experience with extractors/modified exhaust etc over the years says the engineers at Toyota really do know what they are doing. However the exhaust will have to provide a purposeful note to deliver the necessary ethereal quality. What's the go from the cat back?
True stories. 1. I raced a stock AE82 some time back. Every change I made to the exhaust (put the cat out, swap Saratoga muffler for hotdog etc) reduced horsepower. 2. A certain Melbourne tuning shop who will remain nameless (let's call them AVO) declined to guarantee that their $2,500, stainless steel, mandrel bent work of art would produce even 1KW performance improvement on my Aristo.
I do like the idea of a stainless steel exhaust though. This way, 500 years after the vehicle has completely decomposed, there would be a nice shiny pipe laying on the ground in the middle of nowhere.
NEXT
The IS200 has an appointment with Rick from Toperformance Tuesday week to be Koni-fied. The car came with lowered Eibach springs which have been fighting with the standard dampers for control. Very pitchy and very jiggly. Also the front Eibachs only leave about 15-20mm of travel before Mr Bumpstop comes into play. Either I raise the ride height a tad or buy a kidney belt.
I'm going up to Mt Buller hillclimb this Saturday (perhaps next year I can compete!) and would welcome the chance to meet up with any club members planning to attend.
cheers
Wayne
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 11:28
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| ozaristov300 wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 22:14 |
Jim from Sideshow Performance Wiring has been recommended by Norbie and manmx83 but I'm not sure how to contact him. Any ideas?
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http://spw.starkie.net/
| ozaristov300 wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 22:14 |
What are "good pads" and where do I find them? I set fire to the brakes in my AE82 Twin Cam 16 at a Sandown club day some years back. Excellent amusement for the track marshals but no fun from where I was sitting.
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This is a great resource. Focusses more on track pads for STis, but the information is still very useful.
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ ID=36
For street, the pad that seems to shine most in that thread is the Green Stuff.
I've also spoken to lots of people who rave about the Green Stuff for street use.
| ozaristov300 wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 22:14 |
I am dead serious so how do I get in touch with Ray Hall Turbochargers? They aren't listed at whitepages.com.au.
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http://www.turbofast.com.au/welcome.html
| ozaristov300 wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 22:14 |
NEXT
The IS200 has an appointment with Rick from Toperformance Tuesday week to be Koni-fied. The car came with lowered Eibach springs which have been fighting with the standard dampers for control. Very pitchy and very jiggly. Also the front Eibachs only leave about 15-20mm of travel before Mr Bumpstop comes into play. Either I raise the ride height a tad or buy a kidney belt.
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The Konis will have you orgasming with joy...
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Location:
Alice Springs
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 11:31
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Ray Hall Turbocharging
Phone 07 4051 6672
Fax 07 4051 3683
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 11:55
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| ozaristov300 wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 21:14 |
Jim from Sideshow Performance Wiring has been recommended by Norbie and manmx83 but I'm not sure how to contact him. Any ideas?
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Send a private message to "sideshow". How easy is that?
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Although "heaps" is a relative term, at present this goes in the DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW category. My initial gut feel is $10-12K, which should drop to around $7-9K for subsequent conversions once the R&D work is out of the way. I would welcome views from those who know better.
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I would approximately double that estimate. The purchase of the engine and drivetrain alone could eat most of that budget!
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The W58 seems the popular choice. What is the R154 from?
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R154 is found in the MA71 and JZA70 Supra turbos, the JZZ30 TT Soarer, late-model 4WD Hilux's, and quite a large number of yank 4WD's and "SUV's". If you don't like the shift quality of a V160 you'll gag if you try an R154, they really are a truck gearbox! Pretty tough though.
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5. Norbie: I need brakes that are big, light weight AND work on the road but don't know if the Supra brakes fit this definition or not. I hear the Celsior/LS400/LS430 brakes might be the go.
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Well I've heard second-hand that the JZA80 brakes are practically a bolt-on proposition. They're plenty big, but big AND light is a big ask, especially for OEM stuff. Unless you're willing to trade a kidney for brakes made out of unobtanium, you'll have to accept that big brakes weigh lots. It's a compromise well worth making though, believe me! As for your "work in the road" criteria, I'm not sure what you mean by that? I'm pretty sure most JZA80 Supras are in fact driven on the road!
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2. A certain Melbourne tuning shop who will remain nameless (let's call them AVO) declined to guarantee that their $2,500, stainless steel, mandrel bent work of art would produce even 1KW performance improvement on my Aristo.
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If this was a turbo Aristo, they've got rocks in their head... a big exhaust inevitably leads to more boost on 2JZ's, and if you add a well-constructed dump pipe the boost goes up so far you can't even stop it! (Ask me how I know).
Oh, and you do realise you're not right in the head for even contemplating a project like this, don't you? You're in good company around here though.
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 12:11
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I am 90% complete now fitting 1JZGTE VVTi with Getrag 6 speed into my IS200. The biggest drama has been the electricals as going VVTi has increased the complexity.
Can give you assistance or advice on a few of your issues - Getrag 6 speed into IS200 (not for the faint hearted) and integrating aftermarket computer with the IS200 computer (which has to remain to keep all the functions working).
Was going to do 1UZ into IS200 but the VVTi version of the 1JZ was a better option for torque, power and potential power. However, the V8 sure has the appeal and the exhaust note to die for.
Not sure about the 3UZ though - don't know much about them. Have a turbo'd 1UZ in garage at the moment so could take a few measurements in needed.
Getrag onto the V8 would require some maching and welding as the starter on the V8 is at the top and on the J series engines on the side. Can give you the bolt pattern on the rear of the 1JZ (which of course is same as front of Getrag) if you need to compare. The front bellhousing on a Getrag is part of the gearbox - it doesn't remove for conversions.
Also have some photos of R154 conversion to 1UZ motor as well which may help and some V8 conversion photos that I collected when I was pondering the change.
By the way Ray Hall has a 2JZGTE in his IS200 and really knows his stuff about integrating the computers. He has been a big help to me so can recommend him thoroughly.
If the 1G-FE Lexus model is called a GXE10 then my 1JZ is a JXE10 and the V8 version would be a UXE10.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 13:19
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3. KOFFEE-BLACK: I would love to see/drive your 1JZ-GTE. (Does this make it an IS300T!?) In what state can I find you (other than euphoric!). I've just registered at www.altezzaclub.org.au but haven't posted much yet.
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Its actually a 2.5, I actually got her tuned yesterday, with 180rwkw @ stock boost (Couldnt fit boost controller  ) But tonight, was my first real drive of it. It happened to be wet too  DAMN! Its sooo fun to drive!! I already have a kill too, I had 4 ppl in my car, raced a 350z, easy 4 cars on him! I was pretty surprised, so was he, asking "thats not a Lexus motor in there huh"? lol
Edit: I must thank Graham, he had helped me alot during the conversion (funny my car is out before his  ) Thanks Graham.
Im in Sydney, be happy for you to have a look or drive.
The w58, bolted right up to the stock crossmember, and the only modifiying, was to the gear shifter, to poke through the hole.
[Updated on: Thu, 20 January 2005 13:23]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 14:47
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| KOFFEE-BLACK wrote on Fri, 21 January 2005 00:19 |
"thats not a Lexus motor in there huh?"
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hahahah, nice. bet he was surprised!!
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 20 January 2005 23:24
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"1JZ... no shit"
LOL
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Fri, 21 January 2005 01:12
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I thought I may as well chime in here.
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The comment re the flywheel was poorly written. Apparently some of the locally made flywheels have machined a toothed edge directly into the flywheel for the starter, which doesn't work well compared to using the Toyota ring gear from the auto gearbox version?
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I have a Nissan Ringgear on my 1UZ flywheel, from a Navara I believe.
Works fine.
I'm not sure why they used that and not the standard flexplate one, but they did.
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Mmmm, heaps of money you say??? Although "heaps" is a relative term, at present this goes in the DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW category. My initial gut feel is $10-12K, which should drop to around $7-9K for subsequent conversions once the R&D work is out of the way. I would welcome views from those who know better.
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Like others have stated, budget double that.
I've spent $10k ON TOP of the purchase of the motor on my conversion.
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The W58 seems the popular choice.
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W58 will die a horrible death behind a 3UZ and IS430 IMO, but feel free to correct me.
Either take the financial plunge with the V160, or put up with a little lack of shift quality with the R154.
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Interestingly, my Aristo V300 has a 4 speed auto, compared to the 5 speed auto in the GS300. I suspect that stump pulling torque prefers fewer, stronger gears. The early Porsche turbos only had a 4 speed gearbox for similar reasons.
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The LS430 has a 6 speed auto, maybe look into finding that.
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I agree the exhaust will be critical. I would prefer to use the standard manifolds if they fit. My personal experience with extractors/modified exhaust etc over the years says the engineers at Toyota really do know what they are doing. However the exhaust will have to provide a purposeful note to deliver the necessary ethereal quality. What's the go from the cat back?
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Unlike most Toyota engines, the UZ series manifolds are usually designed around the car.
Due to the extremely wide motor, very restrictive headers had to be employed.
However, the car still sounds very mean with a restrictive exhaust, it just has problems breathing up the very top end.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sat, 22 January 2005 02:17
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I thought of something else you might run into issues with this morning.
Regarding ABS, how do Toyota program it?
Does the ABS ecu know the number of pistons, disc size, width, cars weight etc etc.
If you take the ABS ecu from a LS400/LS430 etc, put it in a light car, with 4 spot Supra brakes, are you going to run into issues?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sat, 22 January 2005 08:49
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Thats a good question, i havent even checked if my ABS still works!
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 01:43
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Status Update 23/1/05
Thank you again for sharing your awesome collective knowledge. I'm blown away by how much you guys know, your willingness to share it and this club/forum for providing the vehicle (excuse the pun) to do so.
Engine: The 3UZ-FE is still the preferred choice, although I have been wished considerable good luck by many of the importers. Not sure they were sincere though... The VVTi 1UZ-FE may also be a viable option (and potentially a litle easier to integrate electronics - eg Key ECU on 3UZ), although the earlier 1UZ would probably not pass engineering due to the "engine must be the same or later year than car" rule.
Gearbox: W58 is the go. I purchased one on Friday, along with a conversion bell housing, 8kg flywheel and slave cylinder for $700. Bargain! The bell housing needs machining to complete (facing, mount holes etc) so if you know of a good engineer in Victoria with a 4 jaw lathe, let me know. The gentleman also provided the part numbers for the pressure plate (Borg and Beck) and driven plate (standard 9.5" Supra).
Rear end: Still wondering. I am trying to determine if the IS300 rear end is any stronger than the IS200. If so, a rear cut from an IS300 might be the go, transplanting the complete sub-frame.
Brakes: According to Norbie, the JZA80 Supra front and rear callipers are "almost" a straight bolt-on option. This sounds attractive as the calipers are readily available, although I still need to research the spec difference between the IS200 and Supra rotors, calipers and pad area to ensure I'm getting sufficient gains. The link from Nark to MTRALLY on brakes will fry your brain. I've learnt more about brakes from reading this one post than the last 25 years of motorsport has taught first hand. Based on reading the entire 6 page post, my current thinking is to team DBA4000 rotors and Ferodo DS2500 pads with the JZA80 calipers. (Norbie: Can you help me with a definition of "almost"! PS Love your website. You really have this sickness bad.)
New Question: The Rod Mullen and TTE IS430 conversions were both left hand drive IS200s. What new and surprising challenges await conversion in a RHD IS200?
Electronics (groan): Firstly, let me say that between deesonet, KOFFEE-BLACK, Norbie, Nark, gianttomato, my 2 mates Steve & John who work at Toyota, my mate Frank who is managing the install, Jim from Sideshow, Ray Hall and those yet to surface, I have no doubt we will succeed. From your collective experiences AND access to the right documentation (which we have available), every issue can be resolved.
What we know;
1. Try to use the standard ECU when using engines with VVTi. The aftermarket ECUs don't do VVTi OR they do it badly.
2. ABS can usually be fixed. Traction and ABS rely on a common input so chances are if we fix ABS, Traction just needs to be fed the same ABS input signal to operate (thanks deesonet).
3. There is much yet to know...
Thanks
Wayne
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 01:53
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| deesonet wrote on Thu, 20 January 2005 23:11 |
Also have ... some V8 conversion photos that I collected when I was pondering the change.
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I would love to see the photos. Are they on paper or disk?
Thanks
Wayne
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 06:21
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Photos are from the TTE site and the Rod Mullen car. The link above was for the Rod Mullen (red and black) car so you don't need them.
Have photos on file of the TTE car but don't have the address where they came from. Can email them if needed.
Diff in the IS200 is an A02B - check what someone with an IS300 has in it. It is written on the serial number plate under the bonnet.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 10:46
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Somewhat belatedly I have discovered the Pinned post for the W series gearbox. The gearbox I purchased on Friday has an alloy sandwich plate, not steel, making it a W57 according to the post.
Other than paying too much, what I else do I need to be worrying about? Will it do the job with a 3UZ-FE?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 11:09
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Test the 5th gear ratio.
90% of pre MA70 W58's have alloy sandwich plate.
The pre JZA80 ones are slightly weaker.
There is no difference in strength between the pre JZA80 W5x's.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 12:28
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I am sure, from having owned a JZA80 Supra, the Diff code is the same! (researching now)
Thanks Graham, I still havent tested the abs, but I took her to the old road today, performas just as good as it used to with the old motor (Albeit with 3 times the power )
ozaristo, we had a new member join the club today, on a club outing, he works for Lexus/Toyota, he maybe able to help sourcing an engine. I spoke to him today about it, as the subject came up, he was saying, toyota (Sutherland) plan to do the same thing, and he has 3 crate engines sitting in his workshop (3UZFE), pm me or email me @ koffeeblack@gmail.com if you want to get in touch.
Driving on the freeway today, Im using the W58, and the LSD out of a JDM Altezza (4.11) doing (an indicated) 110km, showed 2900rpm, wih the old engine and gearbox, the car would be doing 3200rpm @ 110km.
edit: according to www.mkiv.co.nz the stock lsd, ratio is 3.769:1, but this could be for supras only
Ring Gear Size A (138mm), B (145mm)
Differential Ratio 01 (4.083:1), 02 (3.769:1), 03 (3.267:1)
Differential Type A (Std diff), B (Torsen LSD)
[Updated on: Sun, 23 January 2005 12:36]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 13:30
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| CrUZsida wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 21:09 |
90% of pre MA70 W58's have alloy sandwich plate.
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Um, are you sure about that? Every MA70 box I've seen had a steel sandwich plate. Are you thinking of the MA61 boxes?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 13:32
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With the W box, if you can afford to get custom innards made for it, then you can have some choice over what ratios you want, as well as increase the strength markedly. I may be able to get in touch with a gearcutter who'd be willing to quote you on what you want (I need to speak to him about getting some gears cut for a tractor!) - admittedly, it will never be cheap, but then nothing is in this game, is it...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 13:32
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| KOFFEE-BLACK wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 22:28 |
Ring Gear Size A (138mm), B (145mm)
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Those numbers are obviously incorrect... 138mm is approx 5.5 inches, ie way smaller than a T series diff (6.7") which is known to break behind sub-200hp engines. I have a feeling the JZA80 diff is a bit bigger than that! 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 13:39
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Every W box I've seen from a '70 has had the aluminium plate... It's interesting how this little argument can never quite be solved!
Also, I'd think the M800 might have a sporting chance of running the VVT system, perhaps a call to motec wouldn't hurt. Also, do what I do with ECU's, download the software, and have a play with it, to get a feel for the features etc. Having said that, I would guess that there's a reasonable chance the 3UZ OEM ECU uses a flash ROM anyway, and could possibly be tweaked a bit to improve power, as well as possibly ignore a few features that might not be needed. It could be possible that a Lexus dealer has the software and dongle needed to upload any changes, however for the actual editing, you'll probably need to find someone fairly switched on with computers in general!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 14:01
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| mrshin wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 21:39 |
Every W box I've seen from a '70 has had the aluminium plate... It's interesting how this little argument can never quite be solved!
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Franks GA70 W58 definately has a steel plate, soooo who knows
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 14:01
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| mrshin wrote on Mon, 24 January 2005 00:39 |
It could be possible that a Lexus dealer has the software and dongle needed to upload any changes ...
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Based on discussions with insiders at Toyota, the chances of this are between zero and none. One of these guys is embedded inside product engineering and even he can't get to the ECU code. He says Toyota regards this as critical Intellectual Property and guards it accordingly.
If we could get to the code, we could simply dick with the input variables and parameter arrays. Of course every business offering after market ECUs and overrides would go bust in the process!
To me, the most valuable code in the genuine ECU is the stuff not related to making the car start or go fast. It's the code that stops the engine becoming a hand grenade, knowing when an input sensor is sending it crap and ensuring you can drive home even after a multiple melt down. The after market ECUs dont know and don't care if something breaks. Apparently a typical Toyota engine ECU today contains in excess of 1 million lines of code.
cheers
Wayne
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Sun, 23 January 2005 14:51
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This is a great conversion idea, people have done it before(more common is the 1uz though).
good luck and keep us posted
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 24 January 2005 01:13
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| ozaristov300 wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 11:43 |
(Norbie: Can you help me with a definition of "almost"! PS Love your website. You really have this sickness bad.)
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Yes, I am definitely a sick puppy. That web site is badly out of date, I've done heaps of mods since then.
Anyway, the IS200/IS300 brake upgrade is explained pretty well here:
http://www.tunedparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10 73
Hope that's useful!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 24 January 2005 01:34
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Thanks Norbie. I stumbled onto a variant of the post at lextreme.com this morning. What's your view on changing the rears? From what I've seen on the forums, just changing the rotors and pads on the rear may be sufficient.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 24 January 2005 01:56
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Personally I wouldn't bother with the rears, unless you have a specific need to (eg circuit racing). I've just finished a big brake upgrade on my Supra but left the rears stock (with good quality pads); they're ventilated discs, and while they're not huge I can't see it being a problem for anything less than full-on track use. I would say you're in the same boat with the IS200.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 24 January 2005 15:20
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| mrshin wrote on Mon, 24 January 2005 00:39 |
Also, I'd think the M800 might have a sporting chance of running the VVT system, perhaps a call to motec wouldn't hurt.
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Since 1998 vvti came out which differs to plain VVT where the inlet cam is rotated via three flutes in the head where oil passes. The signal for the VVTi is taken from 2 points
The camshaft position sensor and the crack angle.. It is via the comparison of these 2 signals that the factory ECU calculates the amount of rotation in the camshaft.. (which is variable by upto 60 degrees on the UZ series VVTi equipped engines and the JZ VVTi equipped engines)
The Motec M400 M600 and M800 ar ethe only aftermarket ECU that controls this correctly. The camshaft position sensor is the same type as used on the later model WRX STi's.
I have rung around many ecu manufcturers (Microtech Haltech Wolf etc) and even though they say they can do variable valve timing they can not do infanitely variable valve timing (such as iVTEC and VVTi) There sysems dont utilise the camshaft sensor.. They only switch a solinoid at a specific rpm/load point
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 24 January 2005 18:19
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| Norbie wrote on Mon, 24 January 2005 00:00 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 21:09 |
90% of pre MA70 W58's have alloy sandwich plate.
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Um, are you sure about that? Every MA70 box I've seen had a steel sandwich plate. Are you thinking of the MA61 boxes?
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My ex MA70 W58 has an alloy plate
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Tue, 25 January 2005 13:28
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Sourcing a 3UZ-FE is starting to look grim. I've tried half a dozen importers without success (but wished much good luck...)
Any ideas?
I'm also after a set of 4-spot front brakes off a JZA80 Supra. Don't need rotors or pads but all other ancillaries required. Any members able to secure mega discounts at Toyota spare parts to compare prices for new components?
Cheers
Wayne
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Tue, 25 January 2005 14:12
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For something like a 3UZ, someone is going to have to go looking for one in Japan... if you wait for one to appear at an import yard you could be waiting a very long time! Have another chat to your local engine importer and tell him you're willing to make a deposit up-front if he'll find an engine for you... it's amazing what a difference it makes when they know you're serious about it.
As for the brakes, it will cost an arm and a leg and several kidneys if you buy the components new from Toyota. Aaron (aka NakedTerror) from SupraForums is bringing stuff like this in from Japan all the time, so shoot him an email and I'm sure he'll be able to help you out with some reasonably-priced second-hand gear.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS400 VVTi
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Thu, 03 February 2005 13:06
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Status Update 3/2/05
Gearbox and clutch bits sitting at home looking for a place to play.
Fitted Koni Sports adjustables front and rear, with Eibach springs and Koni shorter bump stops (to increase compression travel). Woops. Tyres eating inner guard liners (grinding noise seems to be decreasing each rub however  ) and tow hook making assault on bitumen over speed bumps and driveways. But boy, does it ride nice. No more pitching, jiggling or mid-corner instability. After reading some great stuff on wheels/tyres at is300.net, discovered my +40mm wheel offset should be +42mm or more to prevent rub, so have submitted wheels to Ajax Wheels to trim 2.5mm off the boss before fitting with new Bridgestone S03 225/40/18. Would have preferred the Michelin Pilot Sports 2, but the extra $800 makes it hard to justify the difference. See www.tirerack.com for great info on tyre choices.
Project has been renamed Building an IS400 VVTi. I'll need a miracle to land a 3UZ-FE for less than Australia's trade deficit. I have several folks looking for a 1UZ VVTi front cut but even these are rare and more than twice the price of a standard 1UZ front cut.
The rear end has become a problem. I (foolishly) believed my IS200 was the Sports Luxury version as advertised, with the 3.9 Torsen LSD. Turns out to be a straight Sports with after market leather but no slippery. Now I need an IS300 rear cut, which is again causing the importers to wish me good luck. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 03 February 2005 14:22
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You may not have to go to the trouble and expense of swapping the entire rear end, depending on which series of diff you have in there now. I've heard rumours it's an F series in the IS200, but I don't know if that's true. If you can tell us which diff it is we can give you upgrade options that hopefully won't cost an arm and a leg! If it is an F series that would be easy, there's lots of stuff available for them...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 03 February 2005 15:44
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Norbie
Still waiting for my CD parts collection to arrive http://www.alljapanesecars.com/cdstorem2.php3?cdid =to0cd5 before I can get exact info on type/part number. What I do know is:
IS200
190mm ( 7.48inch )
WO/LSD RATIO = 3.909
LSD TORSEN RATIO = 4.101
IS300
205mm (8.07 inch)
LSD TORSEN RATIO = 3.583 ( Better suited to the V8?)
Tailshafts & Halfshafts are different part numbers on IS200 and IS300, and I assume heavier duty (shaft diameter, joints etc) on the IS300.
As for "F-Type", I don't have an F'ing clue
I note the Rod Mullen conversion started with an IS300 but swapped to a Supra diff. Major body/bracket fabrication to make it fit apparently. Is the TT Supra an "F-Type" diff? If so, it sounds like the IS isn't based on the surgery required.
Wayne
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 03 February 2005 15:48
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Look at the ID plate in the engine bay
That will tell you what diff you have.
F302
F294
G305
etc etc.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 03 February 2005 16:00
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| CrUZsida wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 02:48 |
Look at the ID plate in the engine bay
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Frayed knot. I think I know the data you mean that used to be on the compliance plate in the engine bay. The compliance plate is now in the boot on the IS200. It lists the VIN and build date but not the old Axle, Engine type info. I understand UK spec cars have a plate mounted on the drivers door frame that carries this data but no sign of one on mine.
Anybody know where I else I can look?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Fri, 04 February 2005 00:47
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Unfortunately Toyota changed their diff codes in the early 90's, so there's no such thing as an F diff or a G diff as such... they have different codes now but I haven't been able to find out for sure what they are! I'm pretty sure the NA JZA80 diff (A series) is the same as the old G series but apart from that I'm clueless.
Anyway, based on the measurements you've given I'd say the IS200 has the old F series diff (7.5") and the IS300 has the old G series diff (8"). IMO the F diff will be strong enough with an aftermarket centre, since mine has held together for nearly 2 years behind a 2JZ-GTE, but the G series upgrade wouldn't be a bad thing. I guess it depends how much it costs and what it's worth to you! Like you say finding an IS300 rear end isn't going to be an easy task.
If it turns out the IS300 rear end is interchangeable with the NA JZA80 rear end that would make life a lot easier - they come up for sale every now and then on SupraForums. Perhaps some research is in order?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Wed, 09 March 2005 13:14
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That's a VVTi 1UZ, not a 3UZ.
Still a good price though.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Wed, 09 March 2005 13:26
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It was also sold to a guy in Tassie about 4months ago.
They just don't update their website very often.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 10 March 2005 08:25
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| nilezy wrote on Thu, 10 March 2005 16:15 |
I rang them, and they said they had one only left, and that was 3 days ago...
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Interesting, they must have gotten a few in at the same time.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Thu, 10 March 2005 11:00
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Nilezy
Unfortunately the info on the website is basically crap. The list is jut a collection of engines they may have had at some time but as far as a VVTi 1UZ or 3UZ, they told me on the phone today that they are highly unlikely to be able to provide one in the near future.
Thanks for your support though.
Wayne
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building an IS430
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Fri, 11 March 2005 00:35
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Hey Wayne.
There has to be some of those engines around....
In importer here in Brisbane, who as far as i know doesn't exsist anymore told me that he was thinking about importing an SC430 front cut, but the car was in a very major accident, and the engine mounts off the block where broken, so it would have cost him too much to get in, he said it would have been $6500 for the front cut, but don't think anybody would pay that for broken engine mounts, and i'd also expect to pay more for an SC430 front cut! I'd say the wreck was cheap coz it was pretty badly damaged.
I did get the old lady on the phone when i rang them!!
Cheers Nilezy
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 04 April 2005 10:35
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Just out of interest (you guys seem to know almost TOO much ), is the 2jz in my celsior (dont ask, i bought it like that) much better than the V8?
I also seem to be having problems at highish revs. Box doesnt want to change and it bounces off rev limiter. This isnt cool so i havent been flooring it much at all. I have no experience AT ALL with gboxes/conversions and this is my first toyota so im wondering what it could be?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Building an IS430
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Mon, 04 April 2005 11:00
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I have seen a similar problem when the 1UZ with auto was fitted to a Ford ute. (Maybe you guys should talk about a swap!) While I can't identify the specific cause of the problem, the auto, engine and body ECUs send heaps of data to each other. My guess is the auto ECU is expecting a signal from the body ECU that's missing in your application. You could try asking a friendly Toyota/Lexus dealer to plug in their IntelliTester to see if there are any fault codes present. Just what car will pop up on the IntelliTester is anybody's guess!!!
Do you have a 2JZ-GE or 2JZ-GTE in your pimp mobile? The 2JZ-GTE produces more power/torque than the 1UZ, but with the normal turbo characteristics. Just depends what you like. I suppose in some ways I'd prefer my Aristo V300 had a NA UZ (GS400/430) rather than the 2JZ-GTE and the IS200 had the 2JZ-GTE instead of the upcoming 1UZ, but hey, you can't have it all.
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