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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 09:04
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I know everyone says don't bother with 4WD conversions, but i actually plan to eventually do this and have heard that it is relatively easy in comparison to rwd-4wd conversion due to the transverse engine orientation.
Just wondering if anyone has done it or knows just how MUCH work is envolved. (ie cutting the crap out of bottom of car, moving petrol tank ETC)
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
September 2002
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 Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 09:32
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All i can say is that i hope you know a good structural engineer. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 10:18
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depends - you may want to find an ae95 corolla 4wd and maybe go from there? at least use it for idea anyways...
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 10:26
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I remember I thought of this a while back, the idea had its merit - but getting it taken seriously by an engineer might be a challenge. Buy the wagon and things would probably be a lot easier, although I'd still be tempted to use st205celica/caldina mechanicals rather than the (so I'm told???) weak as piss driveline from the wagon.
Hope you're good with predictions. Like next weeks lottery numbers - I doubt it'd be cheap.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 10:39
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this question comes up every few months, it has been covered many many many times, search the forums.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 14:21
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if you can afford to do this conversion u have TOO MUCH BLOODY MONEY j/k LOL
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 16:37
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I just looked through over 100 posts and didn't find much on 4wd. Hey i know its stupid, but when i have money, why not?
Has anyone actually done it is what im asking.
Can it be done for under 10k ?
cheers
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Wed, 23 October 2002 16:47
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my guess would be closer to 15k. but thats only a guess. too hard to say since no1 has attempted it. try a few of the international forums and see if any1 has done it elsewhere
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Fri, 25 October 2002 11:42
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if you wanted to do it it would have to be all Gt4 running gear as the tecel running gear dosnt handle much power. i build race cars and make a decent amount of money and would do it in a heart beat if it was practical.
best bet and i hate to say it, is buy a wrx or a evo lance.
mick
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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 Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Fri, 25 October 2002 12:56
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Cheers man.
I know its stupid but i want a 4wd seca, and eventually im going to get it 
So your saying there is no way to strengthen the tercel 4wd gear?
How much u rekon id be up for gt4 running gear??
thanks heaps
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Fri, 25 October 2002 15:59
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Um yeah ... not to discourage you but somehow $10-15k seems not enough. 
I remember reading a Fast Fours mag last year where someone converted a Mitsubishi Lancer CE Coupe into 4WD using GSR internals. You'd have thought that would have been an easy swap but they claimed the car owes them $80k for the conversion.
The only other 4WD conversion I know of was of a Suzuki GTI swift ... and development costs of that was a claimed $100k figure. Bear in mind that this guy had WRX's in his sights in terms of drag racing.
Getting it approved is another hurdle as well. Only thing I'll say is to properly plan your conversion, research it & then convince someone who's able to do it to help you. By then, you'd probably be wondering if getting something else like a MX5, 200SX, Type R or WRX was a better idea.
But then again, with a 4WD Seca, you'll stand out for sure. 5 stars for the idea but just make sure you do your research. My opinion is that $15k will not be enough but do let us know if it is. This is, of course, if such a conversion is possible in the 1st place.
Anyway, if 4WD conversions were easy, there'd be a whole lot more of these on the roads. 
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Fri, 25 October 2002 17:00
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That'd be awesome man... I'd love to see that...
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Sat, 26 October 2002 07:47
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alright, cheers for all the info.
So . . . lets just say i got my seca running 4wd gt4 internals, now comes the question of engine. I have been pondering for some time over this, and ive come to the conclusion. . .
20B triple rotor twin turbo 4WD seca SX.
That has a nice ring to it i think
Has anyone ever got rotors in ae92/93's ??
lol, i am half serious though
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Sat, 26 October 2002 10:49
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Be prepared to read an essay, this is from all my understanding and experience, so I hope it gives you a real idea.
Where to start, you want to convert an AE93 to run a 4WD drivetrain, money appears to not be an issue, but the issue is finding a workshop who is going to want to even consider such a thing, number 1 because they cant charge you for the REAL amount of labour required to do it, it would simply be too high, and there is many problems encountered doing it.
The number 1 problem, the FWD AE93 chassis is simply weak, its based around FWD not AWD, this means the rear of the chassis isnt braced very well and thus not very strong, this is the frist problem you have to eliminate and will look at this later on as you fit the drivetrain up.
The parts you need, Well a lot, and you are going to have to make everything fit custom because it wont fit. The 2 ways you can go, find a complete ST185 or ST205 GT4 in Japan and bring it over. Minimum $4.5K for ST185, minimum 9K for ST205, and thats just half the parts you will need, or source parts individually and never find all the stuff you need. You need some ST185 parts regardless.
Next problem, OK you have the parts, now make the 3SGTE fit, while this isnt hard, there is at least a good 2 weeks of full time work for 2 people to get it fitting right and everything lined up, new piping for everything, chassis modifications, wiring, etc. So thats in, now your steering rack wont clear the tailshaft, so lets try and fit the GT4 rack, sure it will fit once you fit the celica front control arms and make new mounts for it. OK now the celica front control arms wont fit either, you have to make custom mounts off the chassis for the rear pick up, the front pickup connects to the subframe. A new mounting must be fabricated under the front chassis rail for the x-member and a new rear subframe mount for the x-member.
You will need to use ST185 hubs and uprights because the 4wd will convert your car to 5 stud. these fit straight on celica arms luckily. You now have to make the GT4 struts fit =]
Ok thats some. Next problem, you wont have a big enough transmission tunnel, so you have to open it out on the driver side to accomodate the exhaust and tailshaft, they aren't very wide on the AE93, this is a lot of chassis modification and reinforcement, and sheet metal farbication. you have to fabricate center bearing mounts for the tailshaft, that is another big job.
Thats half of it.
Next problem, fuel tank in the way, so remove it and get a custom aluminium one made up, and mount it in the boot =] no room under the car. you need to make a complete custom tube rail/support for the 4wd rear subframe, and integrate it into the chassis, best way is through a roll cage. off this the new pickups for the subframe will be fabricated. use st185/205 rear suspension/hubs and uprights
Oh now its all fit, your track is larger than standard so you need to modify rear guards especially, another few days of full time labour and front guards require mods too =]
And that is just an idea of what you are in for. An idea of time, Neal bates new rally corolla, it took 3 months of full time work between 2 professionals to build the chassis and make it take the 4wd =]
ENjoy.
PS you wont fit a 20B there is no chance motor too long
Michael
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Sat, 26 October 2002 10:53
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hmm ps.
If you can do it yourself, plan a minimum of 15K, if you can't Id hate to know what its going to cost you =]
I spent close to 6K for my 3SGTE conversion and thats still FWd and I did it all my self and no I wont do it for you =]
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Sat, 26 October 2002 13:38
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Thankyou mickey!
I hope this has made it clear bayka that this just isn't a feasible exercise....
Sure you would end up with a one of a kind car but an St205 celica looks better, is cheaper and most likely will be quicker and lighter after all the fabrication and strengthening your seca is going to need.
If you want a small 4wd rotor, the best bet would be to buy a 323 and drop a 12A turbo in it. This is quite a common conversion and has very nice results.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Sat, 26 October 2002 17:38
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Thanks heaps for all the info!
Its hell hard to find detailed info on these sort of things and its been really informative
Im well aware of the scope of such a thing, im not some speculating P plater that thinks it can be done on a weekend, just wanted to get a taste of what i WILL accomplish. . . some day
p.s. if 20B is too long, what about 13B?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Sat, 26 October 2002 23:04
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13B would probably fit, but i think you will find your problem is you can't really modify transverse bellhousings because of the way the casing is integrated. You can use any motor you want but you need a custom box made up, somebody like X-trac can do this, but when you are looking close to 100K for a gearbox alone it becomes not feasible for the average joe.
You might be able to posibly make a bellhousing adapter, but ive never really seen one done for a transverse motor, now have I tried.
The other down side of putting all the 4wd and crap in your seca, it will weigh as much as a GT4 by the time you are down and handle like one too, the only way to get it light is build it with expensive and light materials, ie chromoly (which get expensive when you need a bit of it), and strip the car out as much as possible. Ie. Group N rally cars have a minimum weight of 1385kg, and they are stripped out almost, think about it. Seca weighs around 1150kg to start with. The idea is to find the lightest chassis and whack the biggest motor you can in it.
Michael
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: FWD AE-93 ---> 4WD
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Thu, 31 October 2002 11:50
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Great Idea!
I've heard of a guy in Tassie who took a VR4 floorpan and bolted Cordia panels too it. The way I would do it is to take an AE95 and covert EVERYTHING!
The 13B will fit. There are guys in the US who do crazy stuff.
I posted a message like this on a US based website enquiring whether a camry V6 could fit in an AE82! I got a message back ( 1.5 pages!) basically saying that it would be better to use the Lexus engine and s/c it! Not to mention that his buddies had converted a square shape ( soory guys I don't know the body code ) MR2 to take a 4l Lexus V8! I still have the post here somewhere if you want to have a read!
As for price I think with all dreams - you've got tot win lotto first!
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