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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sat, 22 January 2005 13:18
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Hi,
I have just fitted a VDO tacho to my Ga28 (1g-gte in an RA28). Seems to work fine, RPM readout in general is correct but at 4000rpm the needle stutters and ad 5000rpm it starts to drop (even though engine RPM is smooth and increasing).
I have connected the signal wire to the black wire on the coil. Any ideas?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sat, 22 January 2005 20:51
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That's funny, I get that same problem but with my factory tacho.
Any ideas would be appreciated since i'm sick of not seeing anything past 3-4000rpm
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sat, 22 January 2005 21:00
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u prob need a signal booster
the voltage to tacho is not enough at hi revs
i sell 4 diff types of boosters
one of them should fix yr problem
just got to get right one
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 23 January 2005 11:32
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side show is write but you dont need to buy any thing to fix it , if you look on the wiring loom there is a dionostic box , there is a tacho out pput in it , just hook your tacho up to that and it will run fine
Dennis
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 23 January 2005 20:59
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Try what Dennis suggests although in theory it shouldn't make any difference if the signal comes from the igniter (to the diagnostics box) or directly from the coil. If you still get the same problem, find an autoelec in your area with an oscilloscope and get him to check the output.
Grant
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 23 January 2005 21:52
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I only get a signal if I splice the tacho signal wire into one of the three wires from the coil to the ignitor... the black and blue wires I think.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 23 January 2005 23:22
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there should be a tacho line on one of the plugs that goes through the firewall near where the ECU plugs in. on the big long plug I think. I had my original RA28 tacho hooked up to that and it went all the way to 7K. Maybe the aftermarket tacho needs a better signal though.
it's labeled on the 1GGTE diagrams in the tech docs section anyways.
Tim.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 23 January 2005 23:28
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guys im planning on installing an aftermarket tacho in the 1g as well i was thinking why not hook up the tacho from the ecu signal its has rpm signal in there theres2 pins for the rpm i dunno which does what but wont that way work 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 00:03
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Hmmm I wonder if my ignitor is faulty? 
Maybe I just need to get rid of the standard ignition and do something cooler... When did they say UMS was coming out?
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 01:48
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I was thinking about this again and I remembered that 1GGTE coils have 2 primary windings; they are unique in this respect. I won't bother going into the reason why they have 2 windings (unless someone really wants me too) but suffice to say that I believe the igniter drops out one of the windings at ~4000rpm. Sounds like both of you have spliced into the wrong winding which is why you are experiencing this problem.
As already mentioned, connect the tacho to the igniter output. If you can't find the correct wire then connect to the IG terminal on the outside of the diagnostics box.
Grant
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 02:55
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Tried, no workies!!
Any further ideas?
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 03:07
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No, sorry. Time to get it tested by an auto electrician I think.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 03:14
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| HyDrA wrote on Mon, 24 January 2005 10:03 |
Hmmm I wonder if my ignitor is faulty?
Maybe I just need to get rid of the standard ignition and do something cooler... When did they say UMS was coming out?
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UMS is due in 6-9 months - Megasquirt II is in testing at the moment so expect it sooner.
From my (work affected) recollection, there is a return signal from the igniter to the ECU (IGd ?) that tells the ECu if the ignition event was a 'good' event (e.g. spark plug fired). At higher rpms, that signal might be truncated in duration.
you don't want to pull a signal directly from the coil as you'll be placing a much higher voltage across the tacho input (i think). If you used a MSD igniter, you'd be shoving nearly 400V at the tacho. You'll also get varying pulse widths from there as the dwell time on the coil does vary a bit as rpms rise.
Hydra: If you're feeling experimental, the MSnS thread on MSEFI.COM has discussion about using the wheels in various dizzis (toyota included) to - one variant looks like being able drive a toyota DLI ignition system (e.g. waste spark).
Start reading here: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=5296 and here for DLI stuff: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=4895
(wilwal98: sorry for the post hijak)
cheers, charles.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 04:03
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Thanks for the links!!!
I'll take a look into this... 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 04:18
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ran mine from the ecu, no dramas
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 07:14
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| HyDrA wrote on Mon, 24 January 2005 13:55 |
Tried, no workies!!
Any further ideas?
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Did you try running it off the line that the original car used?
http://toymods.org.au/Repository/TechDocs/1G%20ECU %20connectors.pdf
look at that doc, it's pin 22 on the long plug. Everyone I've spoken to has used that and it worked fine.
Tim.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 11:55
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i had the same problem , turned out i had the wrong signal wire
craig
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 22:13
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I've tried that wire without any sucess yet.
Since it's Australia day tommorow I might have some spare time... if it's not hot, i'll give the tacho another shot.
Sorry for the major on-topic hi-jack willwal98!!
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Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 24 January 2005 23:58
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I just hooked this up yesterday. I used the Black with blue trace wire on the F1 plug which is the squarish looking plug of the the three, not one of the long ones. It seems to be ok. I tried EVERYTHING else before using this connection, as I was under the initial impression that it was pin 22 of the the longest plug, from reading previous posts. None of the other pins worked for me, except the black, with blue trace wire. I think it's pin number 16, but I'm not sure, at work at the moment. All I know is all of my wire colours are completely different to the colours in the diagram, I used pin numbers instead of colours for all my wiring and has worked fine. I originally tried hooking up off the ECU RPM connection and the tacho needle would never get above 2000rpm.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 00:08
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Interesting!!
I traced wires back from the ignitor and figured it was the black wire.
Might have the motivation to give it a go tonight 
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 00:34
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Tacho wire is black with brown bands.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 01:03
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Isn't the general idea "don't ever trust the wires colours on a toyota wiring loom"??
They seem consistant to an extent, but I have seen variations.
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 01:21
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Thanks for all the info guys. And don't worry about the post hijack, it's all interesting reading. I'll have a search around tommorow and see if I can find something that will work. From the above posts I have a few things I can try.
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 08:37
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Don't the ECUs have the pinouts printed onto the circuit board?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 09:01
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OK, here is a pic of my "long plug". This isn't a plug from the ECU. Just one that comes off the loom near it. I assume it plugged into the dash loom, to provide the guages with the signals and shit like that.
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~cooltim/DSCF0019. JPG
I only used 2 wires off this plug when I had it wired up, one for the tacho and one for the temp guage.
I can't remember which is which but you should be able to work it out. The diagram on the PDF file in the tech docs section says the black wire is for the tacho and the yello/green one is for the temp guage, so start there.
Let me know if it fixes the problem.
Tim.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 21:41
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Tried that black wire (which is the same wire as the diag connection IG-) with no luck whatsoever.
I wish my multimeter wasn't broken  Oh well, time to wait for pay day!
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Tue, 25 January 2005 21:42
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| Nark wrote on Tue, 25 January 2005 19:07 |
Don't the ECUs have the pinouts printed onto the circuit board?
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My 1G-GE ecu did, was a great help, but the 1G-GTE ecu didn't so I was almost flying blind... the various tech docs and a bit of common sense with a multimeter let me work that one out!
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sat, 29 January 2005 04:21
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Bought a new multimeter that has a tacho reader built in. I can get a signal from the IG- wire on the diag connector. I measured the voltage from that connector, around the 1V to 1.2V mark. Any ideas on what the standard analogue tacho in a toyota would be after?
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 30 January 2005 00:09
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Gidday
Suggest you go to Tech Docs and click on 1G ECU Connectors. All will be revealed.
Craig
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 30 January 2005 00:24
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hydra if u r gettin signal at ig- and that signal wont run yr tacho then u prob need a tacho booster
just buy one of grant
old style tachos and some new aftermarket tachos need a signal booster for toyota and nissan engines
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 30 January 2005 00:29
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Yeh, you're right
I'm just very persistant and try to do it all myself first Since i'm not really experienced with designing anything electronic, I think I will just have to buy one 
Cheers for the advice!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 30 January 2005 01:16
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With the tacho booster, what exactly does it do? That's going to seem like a really n00b question, but I've got signal with my multimeter and the Autometer tacho I have is working perfectly, but the factory tacho doesn't want to play ball at all.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 30 January 2005 11:56
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 09:16 |
...but I've got signal with my multimeter and the Autometer tacho I have is working perfectly, but the factory tacho doesn't want to play ball at all.
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I'd just like to add that I've had this exact autometer tacho working on my 1uz.
Its got Bosch 008 ignitors, and I now have the factory mx73 tacho working fine.
However, I can't get the factory MA61 digitacho working with my 7mgte either.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Sun, 30 January 2005 13:54
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How can I test whether or not I need a signal booster without buying one? In theory, wouldn't I get something registering on the tacho even if it's only for a portion of the rev range?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 31 January 2005 01:13
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Surely someone must know how to trouble shoot whether or not I need it.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1g-gte Unussual tacho behaviour
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Mon, 31 January 2005 02:35
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I was talking to MWP about this, you can't use a multimeter to test the voltages, you need an oscilloscope.
I'd like to know how I could build my own tacho booster, but it isn't that easy I guess.
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