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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 22:05
 
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Im sure that that back section divider is peforated somehow, i just cant see it. Care to explain how?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:29
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Not sure what you mean Takai.... the box on the end of the sump has a few small holes drilled to connect it to the rest of the sump.
The small holes also help prevent oil surge.
Is this what you mean?
Gabe
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:37
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do you have a price???
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:43
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| logic wrote on Fri, 04 March 2005 12:37 |
do you have a price???
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On what? A sump?
BTW Joel.... sorry for the hijack....
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:48
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yeah the sump
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:51
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No problems mate.. hijack it all you want  its all good info.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:53
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I would have to price the bits up, but it would be very simple to do as I have all the CAD drawings still.
Is anyone else in? May get a discount for a few sumps.
BTW a new pickup needs to be made. Not difficult to do.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 04:59
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Are you planning on using any form of windage tray/scraper with it?
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 05:03
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would you like to knock togeather a sump kit?
and or would you email me the cad drawings?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 05:11
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Nah that back plate, the one under the 3rdcylinder ish. I guess oil can filter under the plate and into the main oiling area.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 05:13
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I wasn't going to use a windage tray, but if I find I need one I will fit it later.
I honestly don't think it will be needed due to the design of the sump.
As far as a kit goes, I will have all the bits lasercut, bent up and welded. It is a perfect fit, i'm really happy with it.
All you need to do is lay your old sump over the new one, mark the holes and drill them.
A pickup needs to be made also. I'm not willing to make a kit as there is too much involved and I simply don't have the time right now sorry.
If I had to guess at a rough price I would say around $350. I am not interested in making money on them either so you will pay what it costs me.
Gabe
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 05:19
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| takai wrote on Fri, 04 March 2005 13:11 |
Nah that back plate, the one under the 3rdcylinder ish. I guess oil can filter under the plate and into the main oiling area.
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Mate that is the bottom of the sump. The engine sits low and close to the crossmember.
That plate is sloped so oil will drain back to the mail oil reservoir.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 04 March 2005 05:21
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 I can see it now. I blame lack of sleep, and low brightness on laptop screen to increase battery life.
Also may i ask why you went for the fore extension rather than an extension or "wing" out each side?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 05 March 2005 04:51
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Takai I couldn't go for the winged sump design because the ae86 crossmember was in the way.
I could have had wings but they would have been small and almost not worth the effort.
Gabe
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 05 March 2005 05:04
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Really? I guess it is a bit narrow. I still havnt started designing my 4A winged sump yet, will eventually get to it. Do you think your setup is optimal?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 05 March 2005 05:17
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Hmmm.
Volume wise yes definitely.
The trap doors around the pickup would probably be better and also possibly a windage tray.
I definitely think this one will do the job though....No worries at all.
Oh and possibly fitment of a low level switch on the side of the sump....
Gabe
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 05 March 2005 08:54
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i have a tte knifed edged crank so that will not be a prob for me (windage)
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 08:05
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Here is the new inlet side engine mount design.
The 2S mount has 2 bolts through it into the block. On the other side i'll weld it to the plate.
Whats everyone think? This strong enough?
It is 6mm steel.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 12:45
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6mm steel should be heaps. The off throttle kickback might create the occasional issue, but id oubt it.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 12:50
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6mm is heaps.
I would be welding the entire 2s mount to that plate while you have the welder out....
Gabe
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 12:53
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quite a nifty bracket there
how did you manage to bend 6mm thick steel?
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 21:23
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i dont see 6mm steel bending any time soon
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 22:03
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A 40 tonne press it struggled though! Originally the top of it was square and the press wouldn't bend it one bit. So had to cut out that section and then it just managed to bend it.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 06 March 2005 22:41
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LOL, it looks thick enough, and supported far away enough to be as good as it can be 
now it's just up to the threaded holes in the block.. if they hold it'll be foine
mmmm 40 tonne.....
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 07 March 2005 12:48
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If a 40Tonne press struggled to bend it, then it will never handle teh power of the 3S.
It is dead set shiteloads better than staying with just the 2 bolts (an idea that was back there somewhere).
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 07 March 2005 22:14
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Good to hear everyone is approving of the engine mount
I sat the 3S in the engine bay last night to get a very rough idea of how it'll sit.
I'm amazed how much shorter than the 3T it is! With the 3T mounted a far way back (just enough room to get to the bellhousing bolts between the firewall) it is around 10 - 20mm away from the swaybar at the front.
With the 3S there is like 60mm + there.
Just need my crossmember back now though so I can start working on mounting it.
Oh yeah and it looks like this might find its way into the build up -
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 07:57
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Here is a few pics of starting to line it all up in the engine bay.
These pics were using the gearbox xmember to determine how it would sit. I think it could go back a bit more..
Whats everyone else think?
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 08:35
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if you are getting custom tailshaft, move back far as possible (but leave space to get out bolts )
looking good
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 09:05
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also so dont forget the disy as well
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 10:07
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Shes back about as far as it'll go.
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 11:27
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Looking good Joel, keep the pictures and progress rolling!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 21:23
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nice work joel there. indeed. i love articles like this.
if you're still going to use the 2S pickup i'd leave that leg on there and put a spacer on it with a longer bolt on the proviso it won't foul the sump.
as has been mentioned before also ; tig the original engine mount to your piece of plate with the 4 holes on it for the inlet side. will help with stress loading (to distribute across that plate given you also have the two bolts in one side)
i reckon you're about as far back as you'll get - if you try to get it any further back you'll have to shift your mounts on the K frame back too - or do another custom job (although you did mention something about rack and pinion steering - you may want to start mocking that up to make sure it doesn't foul on anything like sumps or gearbox stays...
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 21:57
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Thanks all for the comments and info.
I am not going to be running a dizzy (Using custom discs with pickups that Gabe machined up. These will be mounted on the cams for the Autronic)
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 22:35
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The 3S looks tiny in the bay compared to say an 18RG eh? I had mine back approx another 2 inches but it did make access pretty tight and a gearbox swap became an engine out job. Horses for courses...the better the weight distribution the better the handling but potentially the more diffcult other areas become.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 March 2005 22:44
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Yeah you are right it takes up such much less room compared to the 3TGTE. In the pic showing the front of the engine, basically the 3T is almost touching the swaybar.
I think i'll work on getting it back another 10mm or so.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 22:26
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I put the crossmember & rack in last night to check for clearance etc.
The front of the engine had to come up a little bit to get the sump off the crossmember.
This closed up the clearance between the firewall also so I wont be moving it back anymore, even if I wanted to the sump bowl would hit the crossmember so I'm happy to leave it where it is.
I know this has been discussed a bit already but just wanted to confirm.. The 2S bellhousing & sump make the engine want to sit on a 10 degree or so lean to the exhaust side.
This is the opposite of what I really want as the oil drains in the head are on the inlet side.
There seems to be some people who have make the engine sit completely flat - I assume this means the gearbox will be on an angle then.
Also seems people have left it leaning to the exhaust side to keep sump & gearbox level.
It'd be great if people who have done this could let me know the reasons for leaving it on the angle to the exhaust side and also for straightening it up and what impact that had on the gearbox etc.
The only reason I can see for making it sit flat is to assist oil drain?
Thanks
Joel
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 22:47
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Tue, 15 March 2005 09:26 |
It'd be great if people who have done this could let me know the reasons for leaving it on the angle to the exhaust side and also for straightening it up and what impact that had on the gearbox etc.
The only reason I can see for making it sit flat is to assist oil drain?
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i know it's not an S, but with K motors, they sit on a 15deg? angle stock toward manifold side. TOSCO sold kits to mount everything upright, but that was a long time ago.
i know of one race car where they just mounted it upright, left the sump as is, and had the gearbox on a 15 deg tilt, and straightened the shifter. no problems.
typically the gearbox just has the layshaft turning in oil, spraying it up onto the main shaft and bearins, a 10 deg tilt will not really affect the height of the oil on the layshaft, so i doubt there would be issues.. as long as you put in the correct amount of oil (since the side level plug will be repositioned). it's not like the gearbox has pickups or anything to worry about. maybe an auto would be more fussy on angle?
if the gearbox is sayy.. 200mm wide, 10 deg will mean about 17mm diffrence in oil level on each side (200Pi/360)x10....
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 22:59
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Thanks for that info. Do you think the rubber gearbox mount would cope with a 10degree or so twist or you would need to reshape the gearbox crossmember?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 23:03
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The mount should hold up, but for how long is the real question. At full strain with the engine jiggling around some....
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 23:08
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Yeah true.. I don't really want to bugger up the mount as its a noltec one which cost a bit.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 23:13
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Either that, or you could add another drain into the head. I know that for MiC's 3SGE Trueno they had to add a second oil drain between the 2nd and 3rd cylinders back down to the sump. Killed the big end bearing the first time they did it without that drain.
Pretty sure its a simple exercise, the oil gallery is on the extremity of the head.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 23:27
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Yeah so it seems a matter of letting it lean to the exhaust side keeping the gearbox mount and angle straight. With then the need for oil drains on exhaust side of head.
Or.. straighten it up and modify the gearbox mount.. Even then I think i'd be tempted to run an extra oil drain on the head.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 March 2005 23:31
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So if you are going to run an extra oil drain on the head anyway, why are you going to bother with modfying where it sits. The oil drain on the head will be sufficient.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 15 March 2005 00:38
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Hmmm i used the 2S bellhousing and the engine sits vertical and lean isn't noticable at all on the gearbox? I had to fabricate a custom gearbox crossmember but i just did it as if the box was vertical and it all bolts up fine. For my setup this wasn't an issue at all?
We did bend up a custom shifter but that was to get more of a short shift rather than anything to do with gearbox angle.
Oil drainage as i have explained before is no issue. You just need to account for the little extra oil that stays in the head, there are no drainage issues as such just oil volume management.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 15 March 2005 00:51
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Aaah ok, so the mod wasn treally necessary just needed more oil. Ohwell, live and learn.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 15 March 2005 00:53
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Hmm thats very interesting about the gearbox Justen. I better go home tonight and re-check that.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 15 March 2005 01:07
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Well necessary can be a relative thing. For a big revving n/a race engine then i would go all out and put in the extra drainage...actually i would also go dry sump with something like 10 litres of oil to play with as well.
For a lower revving turbo 3S...rarely need to exceed 7500rpm....that will see the occasional track day and even then only 5-6 laps stints there's no need as long as you have some extra sump capacity.
gabes sump setup looks v good and combine with the oil cooler Joel plans it will be fine as is.
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 15 March 2005 10:40
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we just put the drain backs in dash 10 from memory also we put a restricter into the main oil gallery that goes to the head as well ,instead of 6mm oil hole we make it 3mm restricter as the head doesnt need that much oil .
in the later 3sge motors they have this restricter in the head gasket but only in the latest gen 4 and 5 BEAMS motors
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 01:32
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Hey guys,
Last night I was very very happy. I recieved my new 3sge block and forged pistons. I'm dying to get some photos of it all to show ya the differences between the blocks.
One really strange thing is that it looks like there is holes for the oil squirters  I'm not sure if they have been machined out, they look factory...
Either way, alteast I don't need to touch the block any further.
As soon as some batteries arrive, there will be photos!
Cheers,
James
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 04:09
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I'm still at work, ill talk details when I get home.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 04:46
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Looks like a good block you got there having the oil squirters etc.
So on the inlet side, does it have 4 bolt holes for the mount?
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 05:42
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Got so excited I forgot which side was missing the holes 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:02
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Ahh very nice!! Perfect block eh oil squirters and all the engine mount holes.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:27
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Looks nice. Was that a brand new block? Or 2ndhand refurbished?
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 07:15
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id say a gen 3 mr2 block out of sw20 bathurst model
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 08:16
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i was told it was a gen 2 block
I got the block done by a bloke named Terry of Road and Track in Ipswitch, contacted me when I put up a thread in parts wanted section.
I'm impressed with the work. For $1100 i've got a fresh block, bored and honed for my brand new forged pistons he supplied.
I've got pictures of the block before it was tanked... looks awesome now by comparison
Cheers,
James
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 09:31
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no is a gen 3 can tell by the oil dipstick hole they have a o ring that suits the bottom of the dipstick holder and that bolts to the water inlet thermo housing
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 16 March 2005 09:36
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You 3S geek
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